How About a Cruise With No Ports for Safety

[wolfie11]

15 hours ago, Daniel A said:

It isn't a court decision, it's an administrative ruling from US Customs and Border Protection.  But putting that aside, NCL's Pride of America could be doing cruises to nowhere now.  The ship is flagged and crewed in the US.  They could also be doing Alaska cruises without the need for a stop in Canada.  NCL probably hasn't yet figured out a way to make such cruises financially viable given the current circumstances.

 

I think the cruise industry will wait for either a vaccine or a miracle cure that could be given onboard.

Even if they could cruise to Alaska, the state tourism industry is basically closed down this summer.  No Glacier Bay, no train in Skagway, no flight seeing or helicopters to the glaciers, and all the gift shops and jewelry stores closed up.

[Daniel A]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Minor point, but the "400 containers of parts" were for both ships, and it was considered to be "less than first class" equipment built in the US, so most of it was scrapped for equipment built elsewhere, as is most of the equipment and machinery on all US built and US flagged vessels.

You have raised my curiosity.  Does the above also include US Navy vessels?

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

You have raised my curiosity.  Does the above also include US Navy vessels?

No, because their procurement requirements are far different, but much equipment is still produced by foreign companies, but built by US subsidiaries.

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, because their procurement requirements are far different, but much equipment is still produced by foreign companies, but built by US subsidiaries.

 

When the revenue is produced by building the parts for the Navy/Coast Guard vessels by US subsidiaries, is that income taxed by the United States?

[rkacruiser]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

To this day, the other cruise lines can offer a 14 day cruise from the West Coast, with 9-10 days of full speed fuel consumption, for less than the POA can offer its 7 day cruises, with only 60 hours at sea, most of it slow steaming between the islands.

 

I can attest to that!  I priced a 7 day Hawaiian cruise on POA in 2019 as a solo cruiser in a veranda stateroom.  My per day cost for the cruise was more than double what I paid for my world cruise in an outside stateroom.  I love Hawaii--but not that much!

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

When the revenue is produced by building the parts for the Navy/Coast Guard vessels by US subsidiaries, is that income taxed by the United States?

Yes, the subsidiary is incorporated in the US, and US law taxes even foreign corporations on their revenue generated in the US, with the exception of airlines and shipping companies.

[rkacruiser]

The PVSA Act; the Jones Act;

 

20 hours ago, Daniel A said:

with political chicanery and 'donations' and a late night amendment to an omnibus appropriations bill

 

the legalize, the politics that is involved in what might not be such a simple thing to do.  But, I will argue that a change in the paradigm would be of help for the cruise industry.  This is a time in American history, in world history, that knows no equal.  If there ever was a time to start "thinking outside of the box", if it is not now.  When in the world will it be?  

[Daniel A]

9 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

The PVSA Act; the Jones Act;

 

 

the legalize, the politics that is involved in what might not be such a simple thing to do.  But, I will argue that a change in the paradigm would be of help for the cruise industry.  This is a time in American history, in world history, that knows no equal.  If there ever was a time to start "thinking outside of the box", if it is not now.  When in the world will it be?  

My concern is that many nations will shift the paradigm to isolationism for quite a while after this.

[rkacruiser]

7 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

My concern is that many nations will shift the paradigm to isolationism for quite a while after this.

 

Your concern is not unrealistic.  The news today, if I read it correctly, is that Europe has no interest in Americans visiting.  Read a report some days ago that Australia is closed for foreign visitors until 2022.  (Have not been able to verify that as being accurate, though.)  A survey of our neighbors from the North indicated a percentage that prefers the Canada/U.S. border be closed permanently.  Add to that the hostility that the current Administration has to immigrants:  this virus is a respiratory virus.  But, I fear that it also has an adverse affect on the collective minds of the world's nations.  

[npcl]

5 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Your concern is not unrealistic.  The news today, if I read it correctly, is that Europe has no interest in Americans visiting.  Read a report some days ago that Australia is closed for foreign visitors until 2022.  (Have not been able to verify that as being accurate, though.)  A survey of our neighbors from the North indicated a percentage that prefers the Canada/U.S. border be closed permanently.  Add to that the hostility that the current Administration has to immigrants:  this virus is a respiratory virus.  But, I fear that it also has an adverse affect on the collective minds of the world's nations.  

Minimizing travel until the outbreak is resolved (vaccine, effective therapeutics, burns itself out, etc) limiting travel is pretty smart, as much as we may not like it.

[chengkp75]

13 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

But, I will argue that a change in the paradigm would be of help for the cruise industry. 

Exactly what part of the paradigm would you expect to change that would be a help for the cruise industry?  Serious question.

[Charles4515]

Exactly what part of the paradigm would you expect to change that would be a help for the cruise industry?  Serious question.

  

RKA seems to think that changing the PVSA will help the cruise industry. But I think RKA is thinking long term, strategically, and that the pandemic opens the opportunity. I think Daniel is only interested in getting on a cruise ASAP and is grasping for straws and loopholes.

 

The fate of the current cruise industry now is tied the course of the pandemic. Making changes to the PVSA is not going to help with that.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

  

RKA seems to think that changing the PVSA will help the cruise industry. But I think RKA is thinking long term, strategically, and that the pandemic opens the opportunity. I think Daniel is only interested in getting on a cruise ASAP and is grasping for straws and loopholes.

 

The fate of the current cruise industry now is tied the course of the pandemic. Making changes to the PVSA is not going to help with that.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

Here is the response you were hoping to elicit.  You have consistently misunderstood my posts and then try to correct me based on your flawed understanding of what I was writing.  RIF 🙂

[cvpends]

Enough of the negative-speak:  I'm in for a cruise to nowhere.  Sign me up!

[USCcruisecrazy]

On 5/23/2020 at 9:00 PM, iancal said:

Unclear to me how the cruise line could ‘screen’ passengers on embarkation.  Certainly temperature is not a reliable guideline.

A 15 minute test is widely available if you are willing to pay the price.  If Cruise Lines want to entertain such a cruise, they would need to use those 15 minute tests and allow for full refunds for anyone that tests positive.  If the cost was right, I'd sure entertain the possibility.

[cruzsnooze]

6 minutes ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

A 15 minute test is widely available if you are willing to pay the price.  If Cruise Lines want to entertain such a cruise, they would need to use those 15 minute tests and allow for full refunds for anyone that tests positive.  If the cost was right, I'd sure entertain the possibility.

The cruise line should get a bulk discount on purchasing a million tests and then need only charge us a few dollars.  I'm willing to cruise with all these precautions.

[voljeep]

Just now, cruzsnooze said:

The cruise line should get a bulk discount on purchasing a million tests and then need only charge us a few dollars.  I'm willing to cruise with all these precautions.

#metoo

 

we did just get test results back - both negative - but we may have gotten a professional 'move to the head of the testing line'

from tests taken on Monday

[USCcruisecrazy]

10 minutes ago, voljeep said:

#metoo

 

we did just get test results back - both negative - but we may have gotten a professional 'move to the head of the testing line'

from tests taken on Monday

I think most places are getting newer tests that can be processed faster.  We just came back from 10 days in Vegas and my wife (she's a head nurse at a large clinic) had to test before she could come back to work.  Test was taken Monday at 1100 and she had results this morning before 0800.

[voljeep]

yep ... the tests we took were the 'brain swab' thru the nose - Quest Diagnostics processed the tests ... Monday afternoon test, results online this morning about 10a

[npcl]

If the cruise lines do go the test route, as many countries are requiring, I expect that they will not be involved themselves, but simply require the passenger to present a negative test prior to boarding.

 

Keep in mind that even the swab PCR tests have had problems with false negatives.  One paper puts it at around 40% depending upon when in the infection the test is taken. Another  came up with a 20% number. So while requiring a negative PCR is about the best screening method available, and will screen out a number of positive individuals, it will not catch them all.

Edited July 1, 2020 by npcl

[npcl]

45 minutes ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

A 15 minute test is widely available if you are willing to pay the price.  If Cruise Lines want to entertain such a cruise, they would need to use those 15 minute tests and allow for full refunds for anyone that tests positive.  If the cost was right, I'd sure entertain the possibility.

My understanding is that most of the 15 minute tests are antibody tests.  Certainly the cruise line would not want to use those, because it would eliminate passengers that had gotten the illness and recovered (passengers you actually would want on board), instead of just catching those that are currently infected.

 

You do have the abbott test, but its use is more as a confirming tool than to find cases.  It accuracy in the doctor office analysis units have been rather questionable. High degree of false negatives, fairly similar to the flu tests built on the same tech.

Edited July 1, 2020 by npcl

[USCcruisecrazy]

2 minutes ago, npcl said:

My understanding is that the 15 minute tests are antibody tests.  Certainly the cruise line would not want to use those, because it would eliminate passengers that had gotten the illness and recovered (passengers you actually would want on board), instead of just catching those that are currently infected.

Not correct.  Abbott Laboratories developed a 15 minute test in late March, but they have a higher cost.  You are corrrect, though, there is also a 15 minute Anti-body test.  Most places use the Antigen or Molecular tests which can take from 1 hour to a week depending on the test you use and the lab that processes it.  The Antigen test is not very accurate with negatives, but extremely accurate with positives.  The Molecular test is very accurate with the all tests, so would be the preferred method...and it can be done easily within an hour.

[PrincessLuver]

15 hours ago, npcl said:

Minimizing travel until the outbreak is resolved (vaccine, effective therapeutics, burns itself out, etc) limiting travel is pretty smart, as much as we may not like it.

 

Totally agree.......our travel options are being limited for us too as many other nations do not want or are not allowing Americans to visit because of our poor handling of the COVID-19 and our inability to cause a major decline in cases. Who can blame them and it should be an eye opener to us of how we are being viewed around the world now.  We knew what to do as a nation but because it seems we are not united we have not been able to pull it off so far.  Also, there is the new worry that if there is ever a vaccine developed only 50% of American have said they would get the vaccine.

 

Cruising is probably going to be very difficult to bring back as long as the virus is as active as it is in the US.  They can try to do testing of passengers but the logistics seem very challenging if not impossible and if there is an outbreak of COVID-19 on a ship because testing cannot exclude all people who may have been exposed to the virus or have no symptoms at time of boarding then the ships will be back to square one.  Having to quarantine the guests and find a port that will allow the ship to dock and put everyone in quarantine until they can be tested for COVID-19 just seems to be too much of a risk for cruise lines.  That scenario and if an outbreak would happen on several Princess ships, for example at the same time, then they would really have a scrambled schedule.  I just seems too big a hill to climb at this time.

 

I hope the prediction that was made yesterday that we could possibly be experiencing 100,000 cases a day later in the year does not come true or things will really get tough for the travel businesses.

Edited July 1, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[npcl]

11 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Totally agree.......our travel options are being limited for us too as many other nations do not want or are not allowing Americans to visit because of our poor handling of the COVID-19 and our inability to cause a major decline in cases. Who can blame them and it should be an eye opener to us of how we are being viewed around the world now.  We knew what to do as a nation but because it seems we are not united we have not been able to pull it off so far.  Also, there is the new worry that if there is ever a vaccine developed only 50% of American have said they would get the vaccine.

 

Cruising is probably going to be very difficult to bring back as long as the virus is as active as it is in the US.  They can try to do testing of passengers but the logistics seem very challenging if not impossible and if there is an outbreak of COVID-19 on a ship because testing cannot exclude all people who may have been exposed to the virus or have no symptoms at time of boarding then the ships will be back to square one.  Having to quarantine the guests and find a port that will allow the ship to dock and put everyone in quarantine until they can be tested for COVID-19 just seems to be too much of a risk for cruise lines.  That scenario and if an outbreak would happen on several Princess ships, for example at the same time, then they would really have a scrambled schedule.  I just seems too big a hill to climb at this time.

 

I hope the prediction that was made yesterday that we could possibly be experiencing 100,000 cases a day later in the year does not come true or things will really get tough for the travel businesses.

Observed outside of a coffee shop today.  Two women complaining about people not following the rules.  Then one tells the other, that she is really not feeling well and has a sore throat, that she hopes it is not COVID, that it could be other things.

 

What part of if  you are not feeling well stay home  do people not get.  The mentality that oh it cannot be me so I am just going to do what I want.

[rkacruiser]

5 hours ago, npcl said:

 

 

What part of if  you are not feeling well stay home  do people not get.  The mentality that oh it cannot be me so I am just going to do what I want.

 

And, that is why we are where we are today.  To h&^l with what I have been told/read/heard:  I am going to do what I d^%m well want to do.

 

(To keep this within a CC context, maybe such thinking might provide fewer guests to book a cruise in the future?)  

 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by rkacruiser