ITV 2 July 2100 - Billion Pound Cruise Industry: All at Sea

[terrierjohn]

13 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

Its annoying me too, but it does look like cruise ships spread the virus quite a bit!

Not seen the programme yet, but surely the spread of virus was mainly confined to the ship, and the unknown inadequacies and lack of PPE amongst staff having to come in contact with sick passengers would be a major factor in the spread. Better protocols for handling an outbreak would possibly eliminate most of this.

[Selbourne]

18 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Not seen the programme yet, but surely the spread of virus was mainly confined to the ship, and the unknown inadequacies and lack of PPE amongst staff having to come in contact with sick passengers would be a major factor in the spread. Better protocols for handling an outbreak would possibly eliminate most of this.

They weren't suggesting that cruise ships resulted in virus outbreaks ashore, just that they are poor environments for the containment of any virus, which is known to all, other than those with the most rose tinted spectacles! I felt that it was factual and accurate (and I would include the US journalist in that) but disappointing in that it was solely looking back on the crisis and not providing any insights into the future of cruising. 

[terrierjohn]

11 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

They weren't suggesting that cruise ships resulted in virus outbreaks ashore, just that they are poor environments for the containment of any virus, which is known to all, other than those with the most rose tinted spectacles! I felt that it was factual and accurate (and I would include the US journalist in that) but disappointing in that it was solely looking back on the crisis and not providing any insights into the future of cruising. 

So you definitely don't think there could be a better system for cruise ships to operate reasonably safely, unless and until a vaccine is ready?

[jake 26]

19 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

They weren't suggesting that cruise ships resulted in virus outbreaks ashore, just that they are poor environments for the containment of any virus, which is known to all, other than those with the most rose tinted spectacles! I felt that it was factual and accurate (and I would include the US journalist in that) but disappointing in that it was solely looking back on the crisis and not providing any insights into the future of cruising. 

In the case of the Ruby Princess they did report that the Australian authorities seemed to believe that a rapid spread occurred in Australia and Tasmania following the disembarkation of pax in Sydney at the end of the cruise.

[majortom10]

12 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Well I’m sure that none of us learnt anything new from that programme. On the positive side, it was factual rather than sensationalist. On the negative side, we gleaned no new insights into the future of the industry, aside from the pointless Cruise Critic survey where, surprise surprise, most cruise enthusiasts want to cruise again! Given that P&O has been targeting (and needs to rely very heavily on) the ‘new to cruising’ market in order to fill their ships, insights from that population would have been far more relevant and telling about P&O’s future prospects. As for that dreadful song, that couple did nothing to change the perception of cruisers that many people have. It’s no wonder that so many friends and colleagues seem surprised that we would even contemplate going on a cruise when people like that are held up as the normal punters!

I agree entirely so lets all join in................after 3 "I know a song that gets on your nerves, gets on your nerves"

[kevboy]

I thought that the most interesting point raised in the programme was in regard to the crew. As we know, they live in very close contact with each other with presumably no social distancing concept at the time. Passengers were afforded some protection by being cabin confined  but the crew were not and were thus able to spread it throughout crew quarters and ultimately throughout the ship. Everybody is going to learn from this ( well, most sensible people will, Idiots will still be selfish and inconsiderate) Cruise ships are excellent at dealing with Noravirus outbreaks onboard but we have all seen those passengers that ignore the precautionary protocols. In the future, Cruise life may be a little different but necessary for our protection. We should all be more appreciative of the steps taken by the crew to protect us and if we all totally cooperate then we will remain safe.

[Son of Anarchy]

12 minutes ago, kevboy said:

I thought that the most interesting point raised in the programme was in regard to the crew. As we know, they live in very close contact with each other with presumably no social distancing concept at the time. Passengers were afforded some protection by being cabin confined  but the crew were not and were thus able to spread it throughout crew quarters and ultimately throughout the ship. Everybody is going to learn from this ( well, most sensible people will, Idiots will still be selfish and inconsiderate) Cruise ships are excellent at dealing with Noravirus outbreaks onboard but we have all seen those passengers that ignore the precautionary protocols. In the future, Cruise life may be a little different but necessary for our protection. We should all be more appreciative of the steps taken by the crew to protect us and if we all totally cooperate then we will remain safe.

Well highlighted.

 

I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that as part of a stewards inquiry into the Diamond Princess incident, it was determined that one of the failures was to allow the crew to interact with each other whilst off duty.  This led to an increase of the spread of the virus amongst the crew, and as you point out, further on to passengers.  Apparently a change has/was made so that crew did not intereact with each whilst off duty.  However, bearing in mind that a lot of crew are two or even four to a cabin, that must be quite difficult to implement (cabin bubbles?).

[Selbourne]

38 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

So you definitely don't think there could be a better system for cruise ships to operate reasonably safely, unless and until a vaccine is ready?

In all honesty John, I feel that most of the proposals that have been muted are, in the main, kidology, in an attempt to provide passengers with a degree of reassurance. I don’t feel that they will solve the problem, given that cruise ships are inherently very challenging environments to contain viruses due to their design and nature of passenger and crew activities and behaviours. As well as being mostly ineffective, I also fear that any changes will make for a cruise experience that is alien to us and not terribly enjoyable. On that basis, I am saddened to say that we are in the camp that deems that cruising is too unsafe until we are vaccinated - and we are ‘only’ in our 50’s!

[Esprit]

25 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I am saddened to say that we are in the camp that deems that cruising is too unsafe until we are vaccinated - and we are ‘only’ in our 50’s!

We all have our own spectrum of risk which for me diminishes with age. However as a fit slim 60 something, I will cruise again with or without a vaccine. I personally would feel more unsafe holidaying in a hotel as I just can't see the protocols being strictly adhered to as they would be by a cruise line.

[Selbourne]

21 minutes ago, Esprit said:

We all have our own spectrum of risk which for me diminishes with age. However as a fit slim 60 something, I will cruise again with or without a vaccine. I personally would feel more unsafe holidaying in a hotel as I just can't see the protocols being strictly adhered to as they would be by a cruise line.

A survey released today shows that 70% of people are not prepared to go to a pub or restaurant yet, even though it is allowed from tomorrow. We are certainly not in that category. We intend to visit our favourite country pub and our local restaurant over the next few weeks, but we always have the same tables which are well away from others. We wouldn’t book a hotel for some time but would probably use one before a cruise ship, as we feel that cruise ships are the most risky environments of all types of holiday activity. Hygiene control is good (well, by staff and most customers) but the design and nature of a cruise ship and cruise holiday present multiple risks that simply cannot be eliminated, no matter how hard they try. We are very keen to revert to normality as soon as possible, but a cruise is a risk too far for us until we are vaccinated. Until that time, we have four UK holidays booked, all in holiday cottages, which we are very much looking forward to. Hoping that we might be able to revert to cruising in 18 months to 2 years time as we are keen to check out Iona (we were booked on the Maiden cruise).

[Son of Anarchy]

16 minutes ago, Esprit said:

We all have our own spectrum of risk which for me diminishes with age. However as a fit slim 60 something, I will cruise again with or without a vaccine. I personally would feel more unsafe holidaying in a hotel as I just can't see the protocols being strictly adhered to as they would be by a cruise line.

Indeed.  We all have a choice.  Either move on and carry on with life in a way that is comfortable for your own circumstances or stay at home till the inevitable happens.

 

You can get killed by someone elses actions over which you have no control.  It happens....  Remember Mike Hailsworth, IOM TT champ and F1 driver?, died in a road traffic collision whilst collecting the family Friday night fish & chips; Gary Mason, former British Heavyweight boxer?  Died whilst riding a push bike after being hit by a van.

 

Its a dangerous world out there, if you want to survive, stay at home and hope your house doesn't catch fire....  Close friends of ours house caught fire in the middle of the night.  Luckily they all got out safely.  Big investigation could only establish the that the fire probably started under their decking.  

 

So with those wonderful thoughts in mind, hopefully we will be boarding Iona (if PandO pay for her!) in November.

[AchileLauro]

The last cruise that we took was a fly cruise, there is absolutely no way that I would consider getting on an airliner in the foreseeable future unless it was considered essential for work.  However I might consider taking a cruise at some time in the distant future when the covid 19 virus is considered to be  fully under control.

 I don't have any particular faith in what precautions that any cruise line may take. I recall sitting in Andersons on Aurora early one morning watching two female crew members washing down panels in the corridor outside. There had been an outbreak of Norovirus and extra intense cleaning measures were supposed to have been introduced. Well the two crew members were merrily chatting away and merely going through the motions. The rags or wipes that they were using only occasionally touched the walls and were never dipped in the buckets of cleaning solution that was on the floor. it was hardly surprising that it was necessary to fly in a specialist cleaning crew from Southampton a few days later.

[Son of Anarchy]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

A survey released today shows that 70% of people are not prepared to go to a pub or restaurant yet, even though it is allowed from tomorrow. We are certainly not in that category. We intend to visit our favourite country pub and our local restaurant over the next few weeks, but we always have the same tables which are well away from others. We wouldn’t book a hotel for some time but would probably use one before a cruise ship, as we feel that cruise ships are the most risky environments of all types of holiday activity. Hygiene control is good (well, by staff and most customers) but the design and nature of a cruise ship and cruise holiday present multiple risks that simply cannot be eliminated, no matter how hard they try. We are very keen to revert to normality as soon as possible, but a cruise is a risk too far for us until we are vaccinated. Until that time, we have four UK holidays booked, all in holiday cottages, which we are very much looking forward to. Hoping that we might be able to revert to cruising in 18 months to 2 years time as we are keen to check out Iona (we were booked on the Maiden cruise).

Although I am more than happy to step on Iona in November, I must admit that I will not be going to the pub tomorrow night!  I'm actually quite positive regarding what I've seen online about how pubs in our part of the world expect to operate, it's the behaviour of the clientele I'm not so keen on!  We have a nice garden, a log cabin with a bar and loo, and weather permitting will do dinner in the fire pit.  Might even get some of the gang round.

 

However, off on a camping hol to Devon & Dorset at the end of the month, and have every intention of visiting the local hostelries. 🙂

 

 

 

 

[Denarius]

I watch the programme yesterday and thought it by and large to be fair comment. What came across to me was that the cruise lines were used to dealing with highly infectious viruses like noravirus and had tried and tested protocols which they put into place. They had however, no experience of dealing with a life threatening pandemic such as Covid-19. When the nature of this became clear they should have suspended operations immediately. But they continued to operate and added to the problem. IMO fair critisism.

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Although I am more than happy to step on Iona in November, I must admit that I will not be going to the pub tomorrow night!  I'm actually quite positive regarding what I've seen online about how pubs in our part of the world expect to operate, it's the behaviour of the clientele I'm not so keen on!  We have a nice garden, a log cabin with a bar and loo, and weather permitting will do dinner in the fire pit.  Might even get some of the gang round.

 

However, off on a camping hol to Devon & Dorset at the end of the month, and have every intention of visiting the local hostelries. 🙂

 

 

 

 

Which is why my circle of friends have no plans to visit a pub soon. Slightly off topic - I watched the news item today about pubs opening in Northern Ireland. In the punters trooped, touching the same part of the door as they entered. It only takes ONE virus shedder!

[Harry Peterson]

Perception of personal risk is the key issue for those concerned about safety, as against a less than positive cruise experience.

 

And there’s strong survey evidence showing that most people can’t assess risk with the remotest degree of accuracy.  Hence the perception that children attending school are at risk of dying from Covid, when the real risk is lower for that age group than the risk of crossing the road to school. Older teachers are at far greater risk.

 

It has a lot more to do with the age and underlying health of individual passengers than cruising itself.

[zap99]

1 hour ago, Son of Anarchy said:

 

However, off on a camping hol to Devon & Dorset at the end of the month, and have every intention of visiting the local hostelries. 🙂

 

 

 

 

Are you nuts ?. We are. We are of to a self catering holiday in Cornwall in 2 weeks and have ready booked a restaurant in Padstow and one in Bude. Another week booked in St Ives at the end of August. We are watching P&O closely and would like to get one in this year. We have Alaska and the Rockies booked for next June and Iona for next August ( Gary has been informed ). Apart from that we will be staying indoors, unless we go out. We will be watching events before going anywhere else, but the Canaries looks appealing.

If people wish to lock themselves up, feel free, but some folks will get on with life.😷

[jh1809]

6 hours ago, Esprit said:

Totally agree. I was skiing in Ischgl (Austria) the last week of February and it transpires the resort was a "petri dish" for Corona. The resort was shut down a week later and surrounding ski areas including St Anton were put in quarantine. I was vomiting on our last night there, then developed an odd cough followed by a very snotty nose. By the next weekend I was fine.

 

If you Google "Ischgl criminal investigation" you will see it was claimed to be "Ground Zero" for Corona in Europe!

 

Back to the ITV programme that American reporter was so bias against the cruise industry. The only credit I can give ITV was for the including Carnival Corporation's statement at the end.

It was a bit strange that she was so anti the cruise industry as, since she was filmed outside the offices of the Miami Herald, she presumably works for that paper. And if cruising collapses, the economy of Miami is surely going to take a massive hit. I know it's a major holiday destination even apart from cruising, but even so cruising must be very important.

[Harry Peterson]

20 minutes ago, zap99 said:

If people wish to lock themselves up, feel free, but some folks will get on with life.😷

I'm sure everyone would like to get on with life, rather than locking themselves up as you put it, but some people have medical conditions which make that very high risk indeed.  Meaning that contact with the virus would be almost certainly fatal.  

 

Not everyone is in a position to make the same choices.

[zap99]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

I'm sure everyone would like to get on with life, rather than locking themselves up as you put it, but some people have medical conditions which make that very high risk indeed.  Meaning that contact with the virus would be almost certainly fatal.  

 

Not everyone is in a position to make the same choices.

Yes I understand and empathise with that, but so many posters on here seem to be all doom and gloom that a contrary view may balance the scales. I am 70 and are not exactly low risk but am prepared to assess risk and decide for myself without being lectured ( not by you Harry )😁

[zap99]

2 hours ago, AchileLauro said:

The last cruise that we took was a fly cruise, there is absolutely no way that I would consider getting on an airliner in the foreseeable future unless it was considered essential for work.  

Interesting that you would take a risk for work, but not for pleasure🤔

[Selbourne]

26 minutes ago, jh1809 said:

It was a bit strange that she was so anti the cruise industry as, since she was filmed outside the offices of the Miami Herald, she presumably works for that paper. And if cruising collapses, the economy of Miami is surely going to take a massive hit. I know it's a major holiday destination even apart from cruising, but even so cruising must be very important.

I didn’t think that she was anti the cruise industry at all, merely reporting facts. 

[Selbourne]

21 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I'm sure everyone would like to get on with life, rather than locking themselves up as you put it, but some people have medical conditions which make that very high risk indeed.  Meaning that contact with the virus would be almost certainly fatal.  

 

Not everyone is in a position to make the same choices.

Agreed and I would add that I find the black and white attitude that those of us who aren’t prepared to cruise in the near future are therefore intent on locking ourselves up to be rather odd. In our case we are very keen to revert to normal life ASAP. That includes pubs and restaurants that we know and like and some holidays. However, cruising is a proven high risk activity in a Covid 19 world and not a risk we are prepared to take any time soon. I can’t think of many other things that we are reluctant to recommence, so we are certainly not locking ourselves up, but neither do we have our heads in the sand or our hands over our ears singing La La La loudly because of our desire to get back on a cruise ship. We have watched the crisis in detail and listened to all the evidence and concluded that cruising is some way off being a safe thing to do. That’s not ‘locking ourselves up’ or being paranoid or scared of taking any risk in life whatsoever, it’s just common sense based on the relative level of risk. 

[AchileLauro]

45 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Interesting that you would take a risk for work, but not for pleasure🤔

Why is it interesting - I said essential for work. You don't seem to appreciate that there are some occupations where a degree of personal risk is the norm in order to protect others.

Edited July 3, 2020 by AchileLauro

[Bazrat]

reading some of the comments on here from people who believe cruising is now dangerous if that is what they think i'm ok with that there life there choice will i cruise again yes we have 3 booked,are we taking a risk with our health and well being i don't think we are but that is our choice, on a previous thread i mentioned the fact that this site does not represent the majority of cruisers mostly a small band who have done lots of cruises so there interest in cruising in my view is not as great as newcomers like us,i just look at the amount of empty spaces left for next year there mostly fully booked.