Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[Oceangoer2]

37 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

I'm going to focus in on what Harkinmr posted here on the CDC rule (emphasis mine):

 

While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order.

 

What's considered "brief" and "extended"?  How I read this is that we need to keep the mask on all the time, unless we're putting food in our mouths.  And what happens if we take a bit, swallow, talk?  Will we have the "CDC police" at the table immediately issuing us citations of some sort?

 

IMO, how the CDC has written that has absolutely no real world implantation.  NO human being can do what the CDC is ordering us to do.  Try eating soup, that'll be loads of fun!  What about ribs, or a burger, or any handheld food?  

 

The absolute only way to eat in the dining room is to remove your mask for the entirety of the meal, only wearing it while walking to and from your table.  Removing it and putting it back on constantly just isn't practical or logical.  Whomever conceived of these rules had their head up their butt and didn't think it through properly.

 

What I want to know is this:  Will the CDC place numerous members of the Center on every single ship to make sure proper protocols are followed?  if not, how will they know?  Because, let's face it, on a ship full of 3,000+ people, passengers and crew, they're going to need a LOT of people and no way will the cruise lines allow anyone on board who is not either a crew member or passenger.

This thread is actually now 209 pages, with no end in sight...so many right fighters, informed and non-informed.  All of this is opinion.  The decision makers (and in fact most of us silly enough to read through or pop in and out of this thread) aren't listening to the 'experts' on CC and all of us will either sail or not according to what cruising decision is made re the virus.  So can we move on and stop saying the same things over and over?

[Pinboy]

24 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

  1---  How I read this is that we need to keep the mask on all the time, unless we're putting food in our mouths. 

  2---   The absolute only way to eat in the dining room is to remove your mask for the entirety of the meal, only wearing it while walking to and from your table.     

1---- Total nonsense --- won't happen.

2---- Correct----- will happen

Come to think of it, how are they going to enforce social distancing in the casino ?

Seating at the tables and the slot machines are very close together. 

( Social distancing won't be a problem at the " $ 200 -- Men's Only, Botox seminar " ).

[mayleeman]

@K.T.B. I think you first questioned what the language means, then suggested a worst-case interpretation, and then got yourself highly indignant assuming that was what the CDC intended.

 

Rule interpretation requires generally that, unless absolutely necessary, the words used be given a reasonable meaning. Your interpretation ignores "extended" which probably means no 2 hour periods without a mask just because you are at a table. If you know it will be twenty mins to the next course, use a mask while waiting except to take a drink.

 

Similarly, "brief periods" suggests a short length of time. They would have said moments while biting for your outrage to be correct.

 

Finally, the CDC is not going to play gotcha games. They want success, too, not the headaches of ongoing messes.

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

@K.T.B. I think you first questioned what the language means, then suggested a worst-case interpretation, and then got yourself highly indignant assuming that was what the CDC intended.

 

Rule interpretation requires generally that, unless absolutely necessary, the words used be given a reasonable meaning. Your interpretation ignores "extended" which probably means no 2 hour periods without a mask just because you are at a table. If you know it will be twenty mins to the next course, use a mask while waiting except to take a drink.

 

Similarly, "brief periods" suggests a short length of time. They would have said moments while biting for your outrage to be correct.

 

Finally, the CDC is not going to play gotcha games. They want success, too, not the headaches of ongoing messes.

 

Other than pulling forward the mask order, this whole thing is guidance to industry to produce their implementation plans. The industry will ask for clarification of things that require clarification, and make proposals of how they plan to implement the requirements and recommendations. That's how this is done every day in every regulated industry in the country. Until that all happens, none of this is a requirement to you as a passenger. Those requirements will be from the cruise line, which can invoke its guest behavior policies if needed.

 

What I would expect the industry to propose is that while diners are actively involved in eating in the dining room or other dining venue, separated by at least 6 feet of distance, masks will not be required. Guests would be prohibited from sitting in a multi-use space that includes food and drink service without masks unless actually eating or drinking (you can't sit at the buffet for 4 hours playing cards and not wear a mask), etc. Which is pretty much exactly what MLB is doing in DC right now. You can't sit and watch a game with a beer in reach for 3 hours without wearing a mask. You can obviously take the mask off to take a drink of the beer. Yes, that's probably overkill, but those are the rules a private company is implementing. It also pretty much matches the guidance for mariners that's linked in the middle of the mask use section that everyone's quoting.

 

And the CDC (even though arguably it could) isn't going to come on a ship and enforce mask rules. It will inspect the cruise line's enforcement of the rules it agreed to and the processes it agreed to put in place. Which again, is pretty much how every regulated industry in the US is regulated.

[K.T.B.]

3 hours ago, mayleeman said:

@K.T.B. I think you first questioned what the language means, then suggested a worst-case interpretation, and then got yourself highly indignant assuming that was what the CDC intended.

 

Rule interpretation requires generally that, unless absolutely necessary, the words used be given a reasonable meaning. Your interpretation ignores "extended" which probably means no 2 hour periods without a mask just because you are at a table. If you know it will be twenty mins to the next course, use a mask while waiting except to take a drink.

 

Similarly, "brief periods" suggests a short length of time. They would have said moments while biting for your outrage to be correct.

 

Finally, the CDC is not going to play gotcha games. They want success, too, not the headaches of ongoing messes.

 

My "worst case scenario" was just released by the CDC.  And I'm not alone in my unhappiness.

[nocl]

4 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

I'm going to focus in on what Harkinmr posted here on the CDC rule (emphasis mine):

 

While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order.

 

What's considered "brief" and "extended"?  How I read this is that we need to keep the mask on all the time, unless we're putting food in our mouths.  And what happens if we take a bit, swallow, talk?  Will we have the "CDC police" at the table immediately issuing us citations of some sort?

 

IMO, how the CDC has written that has absolutely no real world implantation.  NO human being can do what the CDC is ordering us to do.  Try eating soup, that'll be loads of fun!  What about ribs, or a burger, or any handheld food?  

 

The absolute only way to eat in the dining room is to remove your mask for the entirety of the meal, only wearing it while walking to and from your table.  Removing it and putting it back on constantly just isn't practical or logical.  Whomever conceived of these rules had their head up their butt and didn't think it through properly.

 

What I want to know is this:  Will the CDC place numerous members of the Center on every single ship to make sure proper protocols are followed?  if not, how will they know?  Because, let's face it, on a ship full of 3,000+ people, passengers and crew, they're going to need a LOT of people and no way will the cruise lines allow anyone on board who is not either a crew member or passenger.

The CDC will audit how well the cruise line enforces the rules. It is unlikely a rep of the CDC or Coast Guard would actually enforce rules. Their job, if present, would be to observe how well the crew enforces the rules and report the results to the CDC/Coast Guard/PHS as well as to the cruise line.

 

My interpretation is that the term extended dining would mean that one cannot take a drink put it front of them and leave there mask off the entire time taking a sip every 5 minutes or so. Same with eating, just because food is sitting in front of you does not mean that you can sit and talk for a long time without taking a bit.

 

Applied to a cruise ship I expect that if you are sitting in the dining room they may want you to have the mask on while waiting for food and drink to be served. As well as if you remain at the table talking after finishing the mask would probably need to be put back on.

 

In a lounge if you are mostly talking the mask should be on except when drinking. If mostly drinking then it can probably stay off.  The point is not to abuse the mask off while seated eating or drinking.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, K.T.B. said:

 

My "worst case scenario" was just released by the CDC.  And I'm not alone in my unhappiness.

perception is reality.

 

That is how you wish to perceive it, so that is your reality

[4774Papa]

7 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Below is the text of the CSO operations manual.  It is being misconstrued by the cruise media to mean something that it is not.  There is NO requirement that folks keep a mask on while eating.  Although somewhat in-artfully written, I believe that the language is intended to prevent using meal service or drinking to extend the period of time for not wearing a mask.  Masks off for the period of dinner service or cocktails.  This is not different from the masking protocols being used for current cruising.

 

At this time, all persons, including port personnel, crew, and passengers (including those that are fully vaccinated) are advised that CDC’s Mask Order remains in effect and requires the wearing of masks on conveyances entering, traveling within or leaving the United States, and in U.S. transportation hubs (see Maritime-specific Frequently Asked Questions).

• While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order.

We did an air trip to Texas a couple of weeks ago and while at the Atlanta airport waiting for our connecting flight, we went to PF Changs for lunch.   Everyone in the restaurant that was dining, whether or not eating or drinking was NOT wearing a mask.  Only the servers were wearing masks.  Also, on the aircraft, we were issued snacks and a bottle of water, same thing for everyone on the plane.  Imagine being on a cruise in the MDR and someone waiting for dessert and putting their mask back on!  Not going to happen.

[Fouremco]

3 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

 Imagine being on a cruise in the MDR and someone waiting for dessert and putting their mask back on!  Not going to happen

Sure it will happen, because those who book knowing the protocols are likely to understand and appreciate the requirement. Sure, there will be outliers who will book knowing full well that they'll ignore the health and safety protocols, but hopefully they will form a very small minority of passengers.

 

[mayleeman]

32 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

. . . hopefully they will form a very small minority of passengers.

 

...and be put off in a lifeboat a la Capt. Bligh!

[Fouremco]

Just now, mayleeman said:

...and be put off in a lifeboat a la Capt. Bligh!

Hear, hear!

[LGW59]

57 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

We did an air trip to Texas a couple of weeks ago and while at the Atlanta airport waiting for our connecting flight, we went to PF Changs for lunch.   Everyone in the restaurant that was dining, whether or not eating or drinking was NOT wearing a mask.  Only the servers were wearing masks.  Also, on the aircraft, we were issued snacks and a bottle of water, same thing for everyone on the plane.  Imagine being on a cruise in the MDR and someone waiting for dessert and putting their mask back on!  Not going to happen.

Perhaps for the folks wanting to wear their mask 24/7 and between each bite and while chewing they can just request the liquified and puréed versions of their meal and use a specially designed mask with a straw.

Edited May 8, 2021 by LGW59

[Oville]

5 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Perhaps for the folks wanting to wear their mask 24/7 and between each bite and while chewing they can just request the liquified and puréed versions of their meal and use a specially designed mask with a straw.

Seriously, you are from Boston, you know how this works.

[mimbecky]

11 hours ago, markeb said:

What I would expect the industry to propose is that while diners are actively involved in eating in the dining room or other dining venue, separated by at least 6 feet of distance, masks will not be required.

We are a party of 2 that enjoy spending dinner with other people.  Usually we request being at a table of 6-8.  Guess that isn't going to be likely.  

M

 

[4774Papa]

7 hours ago, mimbecky said:

We are a party of 2 that enjoy spending dinner with other people.  Usually we request being at a table of 6-8.  Guess that isn't going to be likely.  

M

 

I certainly hope we will still have tables for 6 or 8.  Otherwise there will be not enough room for dining in the MDR.

[Christine Frances]

The UK has just announced how UK citizens can access their vaccine certificate for travelling.  It will be accessible on an NHS app. A paper certificate can also be ordered.  
 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/demonstrating-your-covid-19-vaccination-status-when-travelling-abroad

 

From the P&O (England) board 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Christine Frances

[Pinboy]

15 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Perhaps for the folks wanting to wear their mask 24/7 and between each bite and while chewing they can just request the liquified and puréed versions of their meal and use a specially designed mask with a straw.

Perhaps folks not wearing a mask, not observing the rules, and being a " pain in the a-- " to everyone in sight , should stay the hell home ???

It's a " guarantee " that there will be 100's of mini police everywhere on the ship and the entire cruise experience will not be worth the $ 1000's spent------ ok, ok  -- IMO.

I'm looking forward to the day that we can cruise again and hope that $125.00 Rolex is still available in that t-shirt store on Grand Cayman Island.

 

 

 

 

[d9704011]

29 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

I'm looking forward to the day that we can cruise again and hope that $125.00 Rolex is still available in that t-shirt store on Grand Cayman Island.

It’s gone.  When I got home I discovered it was actually a Rulex.  Should have taken my glasses with me!

[Pinboy]

31 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

It’s gone.  When I got home I discovered it was actually a Rulex.  Should have taken my glasses with me!

Check the watch !!! 

The guy selling it told me it is a real Rolex and said he recognized me from our last visit when I bought 5 Lacoste tshirts for $ 20.00 ( never been there before ). He got out his calculator and told me to move to the end of the counter. I know he was telling me the truth because he punched in a whole bunch of numbers and whispered the price so no one else could hear. 

Bye the way, If the time is still 4.05 on the 7th of the month it's the same one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Denny01]

1 hour ago, Pinboy said:

Check the watch !!! 

The guy selling it told me it is a real Rolex and said he recognized me from our last visit when I bought 5 Lacoste tshirts for $ 20.00 ( never been there before ). He got out his calculator and told me to move to the end of the counter. I know he was telling me the truth because he punched in a whole bunch of numbers and whispered the price so no one else could hear. 

Bye the way, If the time is still 4.05 on the 7th of the month it's the same one.

Oh, come on! I can’t believe it isn’t a Rolex….just the same as the one I bought from the guy on the street in NYC. I love it because it tells me what day and exactly what time I was in NYC when I bought it…a wonderful way to keep that memory alive, well more alive than my wonderful Rulex.

 

By the way, I asked him about the spelling and he told me they identify the best Rolex’s with the name ‘Rulex’ produced at the top manufacturer in Swizerland and those spelled ‘Rolex’ are from the lower grade locations. Good to know.  

 

Edit: To keep this ‘on subject’, my Rulex date and time is all prior to the Pandemic which makes me very happy I missed it all and I’m not in some dumb tunnel!!

 

Den

Edited May 9, 2021 by Denny01

[Oceangoer2]

38 minutes ago, Denny01 said:

Oh, come on! I can’t believe it isn’t a Rolex….just the same as the one I bought from the guy on the street in NYC. I love it because it tells me what day and exactly what time I was in NYC when I bought it…a wonderful way to keep that memory alive, well more alive than my wonderful Rulex.

 

By the way, I asked him about the spelling and he told me they identify the best Rolex’s with the name ‘Rulex’ produced at the top manufacturer in Swizerland and those spelled ‘Rolex’ are from the lower grade locations. Good to know.  

 

Edit: To keep this ‘on subject’, my Rulex date and time is all prior to the Pandemic which makes me very happy I missed it all and I’m not in some dumb tunnel!!

 

Den

Darn....I knew I was being taken after I got home and googled my new Relux ......  Guess I was the sucker born that minute.  So next cruise I'll check more closely looking for Rulex on the advice of my fellow poster who has never lied to me before!

Edited May 9, 2021 by Oceangoer2

[Christine Frances]

21 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Perhaps for the folks wanting to wear their mask 24/7 and between each bite and while chewing they can just request the liquified and puréed versions of their meal and use a specially designed mask with a straw.

So if an outbreak happens because people want “freedumb” you are 💯 sure that the ship will be allowed to return to Miami?    Eg.    You will be happy sailing in circles while confined to your cabin?

[LGW59]

1 minute ago, Christine Frances said:

So if an outbreak happens because people want “freedumb” you are 💯 sure that the ship will be allowed to return to Miami?    Eg.    You will be happy sailing in circles while confined to your cabin?

The "freedumb" comment was so not necessary.  Well obviously the current situation in the US is much different than in Canada.  Where did you get Miami from in my post, never said where I am sailing from in MAY 2022!  Hint, it is not Miami.  You can be happy in Canada where you cannot sail, based on your comments.  I am ready to start living again, been the good boy and been 💯 in the bubble for 14 months, time to get on with my 2 Vax life.

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, Christine Frances said:

So if an outbreak happens because people want “freedumb” you are 💯 sure that the ship will be allowed to return to Miami?    Eg.    You will be happy sailing in circles while confined to your cabin?

Maybe taking the poster's statement a little too much to the max?  Was obviously humour  and gross when you visualize it...👅UGH!

[LGW59]

1 minute ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Maybe taking the poster's statement a little too much to the max?  Was obviously humour  and gross when you visualize it...👅UGH!

point well taken!