Vaccination by Christmas? Many takers?

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Josy1953 said:

I won't try that then, just spent £650 on a new pair and don't want to risk any damage.

Crikey,  that's outrageous.  I wear vairfocal, reactolight,  ultra thin glasses from Asda - less than £100.

[the english lady]

Latest I am reading is that over 50's will get a flu jab this year...OH ,who is only 2 years older than me gets the flu and this year the punymonia one as well..I meanwhile can catch everything.. So if they are doing those sort of numbers I am sure when the vaccine for covid is ready they will do everyone asap. Did i not hear it somewhere they were hoping to enlarge the number/type of people who can give the injection. 

Will they /can they say no vaccine, no cruise. maybe the cruise line cannot/ will not. However the insurance companies are more than likely to set it as a condition for agreeing to provide holiday insurance. I am sure they will have a much stronger legal position for being able to do it.

[kalos]

18 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

You must post a video on you tube showing us how you do it, I have worn a mask several times and my glasses always steam up, whatever the temperature.

 

Just came along this video John, have you tried the tissue method ?

Hope one works for you or any others having same problem .

 

 

 

[Denarius]

2 hours ago, the english lady said:

However the insurance companies are more than likely to set it as a condition for agreeing to provide holiday insurance. I am sure they will have a much stronger legal position for being able to do it.

As a former insurance man, I doubt if they would make it a condition of issuing a policy. More likely, they would charge a hefty extra premium for doing so.

[Roger88]

I doubt vaccination will take place so quickly, we will be more than lucky if they manage to finally register the vaccine this year - in this case we will line up for vaccination most likely next summer  in my opinion.. wish it could happen earlier though 

[the english lady]

33 minutes ago, Denarius said:

As a former insurance man, I doubt if they would make it a condition of issuing a policy. More likely, they would charge a hefty extra premium for doing so.

do you mean if you want to cruise  and do not want the vaccine they would charge a hefty premium. I can see that. Equally that would not help the cruises be "normal" would it. I certainly would not want our cruise next summer to still be a mask wearing one. As some people are just opposed to any vaccines full stop should/would they be allowed on a ship. Should not the protection of the many override the personal feelings of the few.

[mercury7289]

Just now, the english lady said:

do you mean if you want to cruise  and do not want the vaccine they would charge a hefty premium. I can see that. Equally that would not help the cruises be "normal" would it. I certainly would not want our cruise next summer to still be a mask wearing one. As some people are just opposed to any vaccines full stop should/would they be allowed on a ship. Should not the protection of the many override the personal feelings of the few.

Yes, Yes, Yes, At all times!

[FamilyCruiserUK]

It's a hard one for people to decide..I for one will ask for the vaccine as I have a few older people around me family wise and I wouldn't want to unknowingly infect them. But I would stay away for a few weeks after the jab before I see anyone. 

I have only refused a jab once and that was the cocktail of drugs we were offered before the Iraq war in 2003. I deployed and trusted in my drills and NBC gear. 

 

Cruise lines can't enforce it really but maybe the countries you enter, just like the yellow fever jabs.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Quite conversely, given that it is scientifically known that vaccinated people shed viruses for 1-2 weeks after their shots shouldn't those people be refused boarding permission and be forcibly quarantined for 1-2 weeks to protect the rest of society?   This applies very especially to kids in the UK having nasal Flu vaccines which contain LIVE (albeit weakened) virus.

 

This continual attempt by the industry and affiliated groups to stigmatise those people who refuse vaccines because they have done their research is really appalling imho.   What difference does it make to you if I refuse to have a COVID-19 vaccine ?  You have your choice and will be getting your shot so how can the non-vaccinated people possibly affect you?   Unless of course the vaccines don't actually work . . . . . . .  hmmmmm!

 

Let's also remember that vaccinated people carry and spread viruses just like unvaccinated people.  It's a common misconception that the vaccinated are somehow protected by some magical force field and can't get or spread viruses.  It simply is not true.   A young boy who had been fully vaccinated (MMR) brought mumps from the UK to New Jersey and thereby sparked off an outbreak affecting 1000 jewish kids.    A study found that those people who get their Flu shots spread Flu to others up to 6 times more than unvaccinated people.     So actually who are the real people putting others at risk here?

 

I've been on many a winter cruise and they are always full of old people coughing and spluttering despite having had their flu shots.   It's the season when they all hop on board having just had their shots.  As I said, they should all be forcibly quarantined for 1-2 weeks imho.

 

I've lived over 50 years, never had a flu shot, never once caught flu despite having done more than 30 cruises.   I know snake oil when I see it but even if I didn't the peer-reviewed independent studies show me categorically that it is snake oil.

Those who refuse vaccines are not doing so because of "personal feelings" as you put it.  That's pretty disparaging TBH.  They are doing it because they have done their research, looked at the actual mortality rates of diseases, looked at the independent studies of vaccine efficacy rates (which are generally poor), looked at the number of adverse reaction cases, many of which involve permanent life changing injuries, looked at the $4 billion paid out in compensation to vaccine victims so far by the National Vaccine Injury Program and much much more.  These people put in the time and effort to find the truth rather than listening to the spoon fed mantra of pharmaceuticals handed down to the health industry workers.

 

Live and let live I say.   If you want to hop off to your GP to put toxic chemicals into your body then by all means do so but let those who wish to protect their health choose their way too.   The unvaccinated are not impacting you if you believe vaccines are effective and if you choose to have one.    You should be able to walk on-board in confidence regardless of what anyone else chooses.

 

For myself, the decision to cruise again will come down to whether any COVID-19 vaccine contains LIVE virus or whether it contains inactivated ingredients.  If it's the former then that for me will be a very serious worry as those vaccinated will shed that virus for 1-2 weeks after having their shots.  They shed it in urine and faeces and elsewhere just like Norovirus.   That creates a massive risk to everyone else.   Cruise lines should ask for proof of people's vaccine schedules and refuse entry to those vaccinated in the past 2 weeks or at the very least quarantine them immediately on-board.

 

.

 

Data suggests live attenuated vaccines are a very small percentage of all vaccines, and as yet we dont know if this would apply to any Covid19 vaccine. I don't believe that vaccines are toxic chemicals, you could maybe apply that epithet to paracetamol or indeed many lifesaving drugs.

If your unvaccinated self presents with symptoms while cruising, then you will causing a great deal of inconvenience to your fellow passengers, and I would be very happy for the cruise line to bill you for any additional costs involved.

[jeanlyon]

Only drug we never took when I was flying was the one for malaria.  As we could get called out at any time for anywhere in the world, it would have meant taking it 365 days a year.  No thanks!

[the english lady]

3 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Quite conversely, given that it is scientifically known that vaccinated people shed viruses for 1-2 weeks after their shots shouldn't those people be refused boarding permission and be forcibly quarantined for 1-2 weeks to protect the rest of society?   This applies very especially to kids in the UK having nasal Flu vaccines which contain LIVE (albeit weakened) virus.

 

This continual attempt by the industry and affiliated groups to stigmatise those people who refuse vaccines because they have done their research is really appalling imho.   What difference does it make to you if I refuse to have a COVID-19 vaccine ?  You have your choice and will be getting your shot so how can the non-vaccinated people possibly affect you?   Unless of course the vaccines don't actually work . . . . . . .  hmmmmm!

 

Let's also remember that vaccinated people carry and spread viruses just like unvaccinated people.  It's a common misconception that the vaccinated are somehow protected by some magical force field and can't get or spread viruses.  It simply is not true.   A young boy who had been fully vaccinated (MMR) brought mumps from the UK to New Jersey and thereby sparked off an outbreak affecting 1000 jewish kids.    A study found that those people who get their Flu shots spread Flu to others up to 6 times more than unvaccinated people.     So actually who are the real people putting others at risk here?

 

I've been on many a winter cruise and they are always full of old people coughing and spluttering despite having had their flu shots.   It's the season when they all hop on board having just had their shots.  As I said, they should all be forcibly quarantined for 1-2 weeks imho.

 

I've lived over 50 years, never had a flu shot, never once caught flu despite having done more than 30 cruises.   I know snake oil when I see it but even if I didn't the peer-reviewed independent studies show me categorically that it is snake oil.

Those who refuse vaccines are not doing so because of "personal feelings" as you put it.  That's pretty disparaging TBH.  They are doing it because they have done their research, looked at the actual mortality rates of diseases, looked at the independent studies of vaccine efficacy rates (which are generally poor), looked at the number of adverse reaction cases, many of which involve permanent life changing injuries, looked at the $4 billion paid out in compensation to vaccine victims so far by the National Vaccine Injury Program and much much more.  These people put in the time and effort to find the truth rather than listening to the spoon fed mantra of pharmaceuticals handed down to the health industry workers.

 

Live and let live I say.   If you want to hop off to your GP to put toxic chemicals into your body then by all means do so but let those who wish to protect their health choose their way too.   The unvaccinated are not impacting you if you believe vaccines are effective and if you choose to have one.    You should be able to walk on-board in confidence regardless of what anyone else chooses.

 

For myself, the decision to cruise again will come down to whether any COVID-19 vaccine contains LIVE virus or whether it contains inactivated ingredients.  If it's the former then that for me will be a very serious worry as those vaccinated will shed that virus for 1-2 weeks after having their shots.  They shed it in urine and faeces and elsewhere just like Norovirus.   That creates a massive risk to everyone else.   Cruise lines should ask for proof of people's vaccine schedules and refuse entry to those vaccinated in the past 2 weeks or at the very least quarantine them immediately on-board.

 

.

 

I do not think the cruise industry want a repeat of this year ever again. That is if all the lines survive..

If the majority of people who cruise feel safer with something that says they have had the vaccine at least 2  weeks prior, surely they should be listened to.

 

I have had all the vaccinations that you are given as a child in the UK, plus the slightly different ones when we traveled to the more exotic parts of the world. If we wanted  to travel to the later places we had to prove we had had the vaccine (yellow fever is the main one I am thinking of, and thats live). I am fully expecting this vaccine to be a yearly one. I am also fully expecting one way or another that it will end up that if you don't have proof you will not be cruising.

If some countries can say you cannot enter unless you have a yellow fever certificate, surely some could also say you cannot come ashore unless you have proof of having the vaccine.

[Eddie99]

Today’s figures and comparison with last Friday

https://coronavstats.co.uk/media

 

It’s not going away.  The figures are relatively low - but they’re rising not falling.

 

I think I saw a headline with the PM saying he expects it still to be around till the middle of next year?  😢

Not the retirement I anticipated

[Windsurfboy]

I don't know  where knowthescore gets his/her information from , but vaccinated people do not spread viruses. When you catch a virus you start off with a small viral load which multiplies rapidly  in unvaccinated people who then spread it, sometimes before they show symptoms.

 

If a vaccination works fully  then in vaccinated people the antibodies and T cells attack the  initial virus, the viral load never builds up enough for people to either spread it or become ill. Even if a vaccination only partially works it reduces the severity and also the viral load, which will reduce spread. That's why we have vaccination to protect both individuals and others.

 

Another bit of doom laden misinformation  .

[bobupandown]

On 7/23/2020 at 3:41 PM, terrierjohn said:

You must post a video on you tube showing us how you do it, I have worn a mask several times and my glasses always steam up, whatever the temperature.

Try This on your glasses

One blob of Washing Up Liquid on each glass, clean off with a soft cloth / glass cloth.    Put your mask on then your glasses will steam to begin with, after that it should be fine.

Only works with Washing Up Liquid.

Bob

 

[AndyMichelle]

7 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Quite conversely, given that it is scientifically known that vaccinated people shed viruses for 1-2 weeks after their shots shouldn't those people be refused boarding permission and be forcibly quarantined for 1-2 weeks to protect the rest of society?   This applies very especially to kids in the UK having nasal Flu vaccines which contain LIVE (albeit weakened) virus.

 

This continual attempt by the industry and affiliated groups to stigmatise those people who refuse vaccines because they have done their research is really appalling imho.   What difference does it make to you if I refuse to have a COVID-19 vaccine ?  You have your choice and will be getting your shot so how can the non-vaccinated people possibly affect you?   Unless of course the vaccines don't actually work . . . . . . .  hmmmmm!

 

Let's also remember that vaccinated people carry and spread viruses just like unvaccinated people.  It's a common misconception that the vaccinated are somehow protected by some magical force field and can't get or spread viruses.  It simply is not true.   A young boy who had been fully vaccinated (MMR) brought mumps from the UK to New Jersey and thereby sparked off an outbreak affecting 1000 jewish kids.    A study found that those people who get their Flu shots spread Flu to others up to 6 times more than unvaccinated people.     So actually who are the real people putting others at risk here?

 

I've been on many a winter cruise and they are always full of old people coughing and spluttering despite having had their flu shots.   It's the season when they all hop on board having just had their shots.  As I said, they should all be forcibly quarantined for 1-2 weeks imho.

 

I've lived over 50 years, never had a flu shot, never once caught flu despite having done more than 30 cruises.   I know snake oil when I see it but even if I didn't the peer-reviewed independent studies show me categorically that it is snake oil.

Those who refuse vaccines are not doing so because of "personal feelings" as you put it.  That's pretty disparaging TBH.  They are doing it because they have done their research, looked at the actual mortality rates of diseases, looked at the independent studies of vaccine efficacy rates (which are generally poor), looked at the number of adverse reaction cases, many of which involve permanent life changing injuries, looked at the $4 billion paid out in compensation to vaccine victims so far by the National Vaccine Injury Program and much much more.  These people put in the time and effort to find the truth rather than listening to the spoon fed mantra of pharmaceuticals handed down to the health industry workers.

 

Live and let live I say.   If you want to hop off to your GP to put toxic chemicals into your body then by all means do so but let those who wish to protect their health choose their way too.   The unvaccinated are not impacting you if you believe vaccines are effective and if you choose to have one.    You should be able to walk on-board in confidence regardless of what anyone else chooses.

 

For myself, the decision to cruise again will come down to whether any COVID-19 vaccine contains LIVE virus or whether it contains inactivated ingredients.  If it's the former then that for me will be a very serious worry as those vaccinated will shed that virus for 1-2 weeks after having their shots.  They shed it in urine and faeces and elsewhere just like Norovirus.   That creates a massive risk to everyone else.   Cruise lines should ask for proof of people's vaccine schedules and refuse entry to those vaccinated in the past 2 weeks or at the very least quarantine them immediately on-board.

 

.

 

I'm not sure I understand KTS... 

Can you elaborate please.. 😊

Andy 

[NoFlyGuy]

2 hours ago, Eddie99 said:

Today’s figures and comparison with last Friday

https://coronavstats.co.uk/media

 

It’s not going away.  The figures are relatively low - but they’re rising not falling.

 

I think I saw a headline with the PM saying he expects it still to be around till the middle of next year?  😢

Not the retirement I anticipated

 

True, it's not going away but the figures for both deaths and new cases are pretty stable. Given that we've been coming out of lockdown, I find it encouraging that the number of new cases isn't soring. Yes there are hotspots and, of course, the more you test the more cases you will find.

Even deaths have to examined carefully. Todays total of 123 will include those who have been in intensive care for weeks/months but sadly have finally lost the fight. Also some will have died some time ago but have just got added to the statistics for various reasons.

As for a vaccine - if one or more become available this autumn/winter, I will certainly take up any offer to be vaccinated, whether live or inert.

Three and a half years ago we did the Oriana 50 night cruise that did the Amazon. We had to have the 'live' yellow fever vaccine.

It was a bit scary at the surgery as we were handed a card that gave statistics for side affects. Can't remember the exact figure but potential death seemed pretty high!

[cruisenewbie1976]

6 minutes ago, Chrisdriving said:

Maybe he gets his info from Oxford Uni? You might have heard of them?

 

 

Ideally, vaccines would prevent infection entirely, inducing what’s known as “sterilizing immunity.” But early work on some of the vaccine candidates suggests they may not stop infection in the upper respiratory tract — and they may not stop an infected person from spreading virus by coughing or speaking

 

 

 

 

 

 

A recently released study in which macaques were vaccinated with one vaccine candidate — this one being developed by Oxford University and AstraZeneca — showed the primates were protected from Covid-induced pneumonia. But the macaques still had high levels of virus replicating in their upper airways. (The paper was a pre-print, meaning it hasn’t yet been peer-reviewed and published in a journal.)

The macaques weren't just exposed to the virus though, they were injected with a large amount of the virus directly into the most susceptible areas (including the upper airways). So it's unlikely that a human being exposed to the live virus would produce a similar result. Hopefully the current trials will answer all of these questions. Sarah Gilbert from Oxford has done a q&a video about the macaque trials. It's really interesting, think it's on the Oxford website and possibly YouTube. 

[mercury7289]

1 hour ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

The macaques weren't just exposed to the virus though, they were injected with a large amount of the virus directly into the most susceptible areas (including the upper airways). So it's unlikely that a human being exposed to the live virus would produce a similar result. Hopefully the current trials will answer all of these questions. Sarah Gilbert from Oxford has done a q&a video about the macaque trials. It's really interesting, think it's on the Oxford website and possibly YouTube. 

Cannot find where it say's large amount!

Have I missed something?

[cruisenewbie1976]

23 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

Cannot find where it say's large amount!

Have I missed something?

Found the video.... 21 minutes onwards is where Sarah Gilbert explains the high dose challenge but the whole thing is quite interesting if you're into that sort of thing. 

 

[happy v]

Of course we will have the vaccine.

However I don't know if I agree with who will be first...........surely it should be those wanting to go on a cruise!!!😏😄😄

[cruisenewbie1976]

11 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

Sorry, where did you original see it?

 

I do not think this video is as you reported!

 

 

 

 

Why do you think that? 

I've already posted the link to the video - it's on the previous page. 

[cruisenewbie1976]

31 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I hear what you say, but what is not reported in the pre published papers is the viral load given to both vaccinated and non vaccinated monkeys, and how this might compare with the infection load that would be normal for human transfer. Equally if all high risk people have received the vaccine then any shedding that they produce will have a very limited impact on serious infections and deaths in the low risk population.

 

Sorry cruisingnewbie1976, I really must try to educate myself to read through to the end of all new posts, before I add my twopennorth.

No worries. It's easy to miss posts. Especially when you've got Mercury questioning everything that I say 😉

[wowzz]

45 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I hear what you say, but what is not reported in the pre published papers is the viral load given to both vaccinated and non vaccinated monkeys, and how this might compare with the infection load that would be normal for human transfer. Equally if all high risk people have received the vaccine then any shedding that they produce will have a very limited impact on serious infections and deaths in the low risk population.

 

Sorry cruisingnewbie1976, I really must try to educate myself to read through to the end of all new posts, before I add my twopennorth.

I agree - the viral load is significant. I'm amazed to see people talking up close and personal in the supermarket car park for 10 minutes, with no masks  but then getting paranoid when soemone passes close to them in the vegetable aisle,  even when wearing  a mask.

I have an easy mantra. 

In the open, no mask needed, inside, mask needed.

Read and weep Shakespeare!

 

[mercury7289]

11 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

No worries. It's easy to miss posts. Especially when you've got Mercury questioning everything that I say 😉

You should not have a problem, to justify anything that you post, It is the spin that you seem to put on things that cause me to ask the questions.

[cruisenewbie1976]

16 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

You should not have a problem, to justify anything that you post, It is the spin that you seem to put on things that cause me to ask the questions.

I pretty much quoted the Professor of vaccinology at Oxford University. I'm sure she'd appreciate your feedback.