MSC GRANDIOSA - 8/16/2020 - Anyone Live?

[electro]

5 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Just because someone doesn’t want to go on a cruise ship at this time doesn’t mean they are ‘living in fear’ 

Thank you, I've been thinking the same thing. 

Every time someone says they won't cruise with all the restrictions someone else says "you can lock yourself in your  basement and live in fear" as if these were the only 2 options and there was nothing in between!

[DCGuy64]

7 minutes ago, electro said:

Thank you, I've been thinking the same thing. 

Every time someone says they won't cruise with all the restrictions someone else says "you can lock yourself in your  basement and live in fear" as if these were the only 2 options and there was nothing in between!

Yes, I'm afraid that's a symptom of our binary mentality these days. Everything has to be all or nothing. Most of life is lived in the in-between, not the extremes. It's possible to be cautious but not go overboard (no pun intended).

[CruisingFox27]

2 hours ago, drsel said:

On this Cruise, MSC Grandiosa, a family was thrown out of the ship, for abandoning their paid MSC ship tour.

What a dumb family!
they actually paid a huge amount of money for each and every family member to do the expensive MSC tour, and then they just left it and ran away to do their own thing!
how stupid of them

 

51 minutes ago, cruiser man 60 said:

Just a point the  excursions on these cruises are fairly cheap I saw mentioned 100 euros for 3 plus some free ones are included in price.

stilll idiotic and I would loved to have heard the conversation when they were told they were not coming back in board!!

 

Very impressed that MSC took such an approach. Makes an example of the family to other passengers and demonstrates how seriously they are adhering to the protocols in place.

I never cease to be disappointed in the stupidity of folks, all of the rules currently in place are for the safety and wellbeing of the passengers and crew. Blatantly disregarding that is so selfish and disrespectful to all of their fellow passengers and MSC crew.

 

I hope it was announced to the passengers this happened, in case any others were thinking of doing similar and equally to reassure the people on board how seriously MSC took the breach and reacted.

 

I know ship excursions aren't for everyone in normal circumstances BUT these are not normal circumstances and if you want to sail at the moment there are new rules. Abide by them or don't sail. Or as this examples shows, you won't be sailing for long anyway...

Edited August 20, 2020 by CruisingFox27

[WorldTraveler151208]

49 minutes ago, cruiser man 60 said:

Just a point the  excursions on these cruises are fairly cheap I saw mentioned 100 euros for 3 plus some free ones are included in price.

stilll idiotic and I would loved to have heard the conversation when they were told they were not coming back in board!!

Yeah, I would love to hear that too. What about their luggage in that case?  Because I understand that they were not allowed to get on the ship after returning to port.  The crew had to pack their luggage and bring it out of the ship?

[mnocket]

Since when are clear face shields a replacement for face masks?  In the videos posted earlier, there are many crew members, including waiters in the MDR who are wearing face shields with no masks underneath.  My understanding is face shields are intended to provide an additional level of protection - not replace face masks.  What gives with MSC?

[tampadee]

I feel encouraged!  Not quite yet but I think we'll get there!

[sidari]

54 minutes ago, mnocket said:

Since when are clear face shields a replacement for face masks?  In the videos posted earlier, there are many crew members, including waiters in the MDR who are wearing face shields with no masks underneath.  My understanding is face shields are intended to provide an additional level of protection - not replace face masks.  What gives with MSC?

Maybe you can explain how the crew will interact with a Deaf person who cannot see staff speaking while wearing a mask due to the person needing to Lip read even with or without Hearing Aids ? At least with a face shield a Deaf person can see the persons mouth and lips moving! As usual far too many people seem to believe there is a one size fits all answer!

[BermudaBound2014]

4 minutes ago, sidari said:

Maybe you can explain how the crew will interact with a Deaf person who cannot see staff speaking while wearing a mask due to the person needing to Lip read even with or without Hearing Aids ? At least with a face shield a Deaf person can see the persons mouth and lips moving! As usual far too many people seem to believe there is a one size fits all answer!

 

Sid: Just so you know, here in the USA it's quite the news that face shields are not acceptable. Kids/teachers can't wear them in place of masks while in school. For the hard of hearing, clear plastic masks are being used. MNrocket was probably responding to the USA ruling on face shields. 

[mnocket]

15 minutes ago, sidari said:

Maybe you can explain how the crew will interact with a Deaf person who cannot see staff speaking while wearing a mask due to the person needing to Lip read even with or without Hearing Aids ? At least with a face shield a Deaf person can see the persons mouth and lips moving! As usual far too many people seem to believe there is a one size fits all answer!

I can see that masks present a problem for lip readers.  However using this as an excuse for so many crew members not wearing  masks seems disingenuous to me.  

Edited August 20, 2020 by mnocket

[sidari]

8 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Sid: Just so you know, here in the USA it's quite the news that face shields are not acceptable. Kids/teachers can't wear them in place of masks while in school. For the hard of hearing, clear plastic masks are being used. MNrocket was probably responding to the USA ruling on face shields. 

BB ... I had been made aware of those masks by a teacher friend from NJ.

[sidari]

1 minute ago, mnocket said:

I can see that masks present a problem for lip readers.  However using this as an excuse for not wearing a mask seems disingenuous to me.  

In the UK anyone traveling with a Deaf person does not have to wear a mask in order that the deaf person can lip read, it will be interesting to see How and If cruise lines deal with this issue, if in fact they have even considered it or it has even crossed their minds.

[mnocket]

Just now, sidari said:

In the UK anyone traveling with a Deaf person does not have to wear a mask in order that the deaf person can lip read, it will be interesting to see How and If cruise lines deal with this issue, if in fact they have even considered it or it has even crossed their minds.

Understood, but do you really think this is the reason so many crew members are not wearing face masks?

[Formula280SS]

1 hour ago, mnocket said:

Since when are clear face shields a replacement for face masks?  In the videos posted earlier, there are many crew members, including waiters in the MDR who are wearing face shields with no masks underneath.  My understanding is face shields are intended to provide an additional level of protection - not replace face masks.  What gives with MSC?

 

In the video of the main dining, there is one waiter wearing only a shield; he has glasses on (specifically referenced in published articles as making shields beneficial, especially in hot weather).  Not an excuse, I just just don't know the answer to very technical question.

 

 

In the MDR, I'd prefer servers wear a mask.  If they cannot, for example glasses fogging, they might consider another assignment.

 

The "what gives with MSC" is another example of indictment without knowing what the protocols are and whether that person is in compliance.  It also is another example of the 'broad brush approach to 'the entire cruise line operator for the single observation that has not been addressed as to the actual circumstance(s) and compliance.

 

 

 

 

[WorldTraveler151208]

Waiters wear face shields probably because it's just more convenient when you work all day, but at the same time it solves the problem described above.  
It looks like the shields are treated as a mask substitute.  Honestly, I have never seen anyone who had both a mask and a shield at the same time. 
The shield is in fact less “hermetic” than a regular mask, but it actually provides comparable protection and it also has advantages. The face shields do not need to be changed often and it is easy to disinfect them. It also covers the eyes, so it is an additional protection for the person who wears a face shield.

[mnocket]

37 minutes ago, Formula280SS said:

 

In the video of the main dining, there is one waiter wearing only a shield; he has glasses on (specifically referenced in published articles as making shields beneficial, especially in hot weather).  Not an excuse, I just just don't know the answer to very technical question.

 

 

In the MDR, I'd prefer servers wear a mask.  If they cannot, for example glasses fogging, they might consider another assignment.

 

The "what gives with MSC" is another example of indictment without knowing what the protocols are and whether that person is in compliance.  It also is another example of the 'broad brush approach to 'the entire cruise line operator for the single observation that has not been addressed as to the actual circumstance(s) and compliance.

 

 

 

 

 

I see three waiters wearing no face masks.  I'm also not aware that wearing glasses is an excuse for not wearing a face mask.  You can also see at least two crew members on the "Galleria" video not wearing face masks.  If wearing face shields without masks is in compliance with MSC protocols, their protocols certainly differ from shoreside rules.  Can passengers also wear face shields without masks?  If not, why not?

 

 

[Formula280SS]

2 minutes ago, mnocket said:

 

I see three waiters wearing no face masks.  I'm also not aware that wearing glasses is an excuse for not wearing a face mask.  You can also see at least two crew members on the "Galleria" video not wearing face masks.

 

It is clear you, nor I, are aware of what the MSC protocol is; however, I'm not moving to 'indictment based on my lack of knowledge.  Re: in the Galleria, with social distancing and job assignments, again, I'm not aware of the MSC protocol and again am not not willing to 'indict MSC, sink the ship and cancel cruising world-wide.  😲

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, mnocket said:

 

If wearing face shields without masks is in compliance with MSC protocols, their protocols certainly differ from shoreside rules.  What rules, where, what authority, etc.?  Since MSC worked with Italian regulators hand-in-hand, one would think that MSC isn't doing something they shouldn't be doing unless there is lack of compliance with protocols by the crew noted.

 

2 minutes ago, mnocket said:

 

Can passengers also wear face shields without masks?  If not, why not?  I don't know.  I do know, this is not about 'learning what the protocols are, whether they are complied with, etc.  It's about premature indictment that is uninformed, and not fair and reasonable.

 

 

 

 

Could the face shield observations be "an issue" to be addressed after this cruise, great.  Could the quality of masks, passengers and crew be "an issue" also, great.  It's a first step, a bold step.  I'm very impressed with Italy and MSC.  Thankfully, their policies and procedures in the public interest do not require the 100% absolute acceptance of the world-wide population (just don't go).

[mnocket]

5 minutes ago, Formula280SS said:

It is clear you, nor I, are aware of what the MSC protocol is; however, I'm not moving to 'indictment based on my lack of knowledge.  Re: in the Galleria, with social distancing and job assignments, again, I'm not aware of the MSC protocol and again am not not willing to 'indict MSC, sink the ship and cancel cruising world-wide.  😲

 

Actually, I do know what the MSC protocol is for crew members wearing masks - at least I know what they say they are on their website.

 

"All crew will wear protective equipment, such as face masks and gloves"

 

https://www.msccruisesusa.com/-/media/usa/documents/health_measures_flyer_usa-8-17.pdf?la=en-us&hash=099304DFB0E02EBB26E74114F3F94164C0527066

 

I don't think any of the waiters wore gloves and several didn't wear face masks.  I realize that you are not bothered by this.  Everyone sets their own standards for what they consider "safe" in the COVID age.  What is "safe" to you differs from what is "safe" to me.  That said, I don't think there should be any disagreement over whether cruise lines should actually do what they say they will do when it comes to COVID safety precautions.  If MSC tells me that ALL their crew members wear face masks, shouldn't I rightfully expect that that will be the case once I'm onboard?  You may not be willing to "indict" MSC for not following their published COVID policy, but I sure am.  

[Formula280SS]

1 minute ago, mnocket said:

 

Actually, I do know what the MSC protocol is for crew members wearing masks - at least I know what they say they are on their website.

 

"All crew will wear protective equipment, such as face masks and gloves"

 

https://www.msccruisesusa.com/-/media/usa/documents/health_measures_flyer_usa-8-17.pdf?la=en-us&hash=099304DFB0E02EBB26E74114F3F94164C0527066

 

I don't think any of the waiters wore gloves and several didn't wear face masks.  I realize that you are not bothered by this.  Everyone sets their own standards for what they consider "safe" in the COVID age.  What is "safe" to you differs from what is "safe" to me.  That said, I don't think there should be any disagreement over whether cruise lines should actually do what they say they will do when it comes to COVID safety precautions.  If MSC tells me that ALL their crew members wear face masks, shouldn't I rightfully expect that that will be the case once I'm onboard?  You may not be willing to "indict" MSC for not following their published COVID policy, but I sure am.  

 

I, nor anyone else, can't help you other than to advise that you are not required to cruise on any cruise line (airline, hotel, mass transit, car share, church, protest, etc.) until all of your personally identified mandatory safety requirements are met.

[DCGuy64]

6 minutes ago, Formula280SS said:

 

I, nor anyone else, can't help you other than to advise that you are not required to cruise on any cruise line (airline, hotel, mass transit, car share, church, protest, etc.) until all of your personally identified mandatory safety requirements are met.

I watched the Galleria video and maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any waiters (who were working) who weren't wearing masks or face shields. Maybe it's because I'm watching the video on my laptop's screen and the video was kinda jerky, so I might have missed it. And I agree with @Formula280SS, if people have their own standards for safety and don't feel comfortable, they should feel free to stay home until the situation has improved to their personal comfort level.

Edited August 20, 2020 by DCGuy64
Added extra info

[DEAdams]

As are all other "serial cruisers", we are watching this cruise closely. We normally take 2-3 cruises each year and the rest of our cruises for 2020 were, obviously, cancelled. We opted for refunds. We only have 1 cruise scheduled for 2021 (November) so we're hoping things look much different for cruises by then, but we have decided to back off cruises indefinitely. While we respect and understand the need for strict protocols, this kind of vacation just isn't appealing to us at all especially with the excursions (we have never liked group excursions but that is just our personal preference). Because we always take overseas cruises and prefer suites to staterooms, our cruises are costly. We've decided to buy an RV and do some traveling in the states until cruising returns to an atmosphere we would personally enjoy. We do hope this cruise is a success!

[hamrag]

2 hours ago, WorldTraveler151208 said:

....The shield is in fact less “hermetic” than a regular mask, but it actually provides comparable protection and it also has advantages. The face shields do not need to be changed often and it is easy to disinfect them. It also covers the eyes, so it is an additional protection for the person who wears a face shield.

Assuming it is true (I don't believe it is) that a shield provides comparable protection, such protection is to the shield wearer alone! Clearly to those being served by the crew, the shield alone does not protect from droplets.

[CruisingFox27]

56 minutes ago, mnocket said:

 

Actually, I do know what the MSC protocol is for crew members wearing masks - at least I know what they say they are on their website.

 

"All crew will wear protective equipment, such as face masks 

 

Face shields are protective equipment. We have many workers in the UK who are wearing face shields rather than face masks, particularly in service industries like hospitality and beauty. Either is PPE, the crew are therefore compliant with the protocol. 

[hamrag]

2 minutes ago, CruisingFox27 said:

 

Face shields are protective equipment. We have many workers in the UK who are wearing face shields rather than face masks, particularly in service industries like hospitality and beauty. Either is PPE, the crew are therefore compliant with the protocol. 

Not sure if you meant Northern Ireland/England and/or Wales? Certainly in Scotland, for public indoor settings, if a shield is worn it must be in addition to the mandatory face mask.

[CruisingFox27]

24 minutes ago, hamrag said:

Not sure if you meant Northern Ireland/England and/or Wales? Certainly in Scotland, for public indoor settings, if a shield is worn it must be in addition to the mandatory face mask.

 

It's certainly the case in England and Northern Ireland that shields can be worn alone by staff in hospitality etc as it's PPE.

Edited August 20, 2020 by CruisingFox27

[Até]

Here's a buffet video.  They have plexiglass shields so people can't reach in to the food.  Servers mostly have face shields only.  Drink station was scary.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2H935qSZE8

 

ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CEZI_tqUFA

Edited August 20, 2020 by Até