CDC Director Overruled On Cruise Ship Ban

[TNcruising02]

7 hours ago, cruizergal70 said:

Are you kidding? Living has nothing to do with the optionnal act of going on a frivolous cruise vacation.  Life will be 100% okay if cruising shut down completely. Let's keep the real important things in life in perspective. 

 
I am not sure if you realize it, but the cruising industry isn't just about people going on vacation.  The crew members, hotels & their employees, taxi drivers, airlines, tourist operators, and MANY others depend on this industry to make a living.  Something some people think is trivial, can be much more involved.  It's not just about a vacation.  The big picture is more important than a small view, in my opinion.  Perspective should include looking at ALL sides.

Ask a crew member who is sending money home to his/her family if it's just about a vacation.  Ask the people on the islands who depend on this industry to survive.

Edited September 30, 2020 by TNcruising02

[jimbo5544]

Another third party confirmation  (the Times, so not much credibility), yet nothing from the axman.  Just another show of arrogance and hatred for the industry.  Absolutely no reason for it.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/health/covid-cruise-ships.html

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by jimbo5544

[Isasprings]

17 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

 
I am not sure if you realize it, but the cruising industry isn't just about people going on vacation.  The crew members, hotels & their employees, taxi drivers, airlines, tourist operators, and MANY others depend on this industry to make a living.  Something some people think is trivial, can be much more involved.  It's not just about a vacation.  The big picture is more important than a small view, in my opinion.  Perspective should include looking at ALL sides.

Ask a crew member who is sending money home to his/her family if it's just about a vacation.  Ask the people on the islands who depend on this industry to survive.

I agree with you. Lots of people here in Miami wanted to go back to work at the Port.

[Tapi]

6 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Another third party confirmation  (the Times, so not much credibility), yet nothing from the axman.

Soooo, it’s after 5:00pm, and I don’t see any updates on the CDC website about the no sail order being extended to Oct 31st. Has it been made official? Did I miss something? 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Tapi

[bury me at sea]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

 

A better way to put that is sometimes theories are wrong. Theories are just that, and not absolute.

 

 

I'm seeing a pattern, but maybe not the one you are implying. Those scientists were right a lot of the time.

 

Not only were their major theories proved correct, no one's health was hanging in the balance in the meantime, and no one else would have suffered damaging medical consequences if those theories had been proven wrong.

 

Interesting anecdotes but not applicable to the topic.

 

 

[Moviela]

17 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I think you are off by 24 hours. 

 

I would invite your attention to the language of the actual order:

 

"This Order shall remain in effect until the earliest of .....September 30, 2020.

 

Sunsetting orders are often written this way, and the earliest would be when Wednesday started, and means Eastern time unless otherwise specified.

 

[ZoeyVictoria]

If the cruise lines enforce the new rules and procedures, I would feel safer on a ship than I do at home in Florida right now.  

[Butterbean1000]

2 hours ago, Saint Greg said:

 

And I would think those steps would be started in October if they know the no sail order will end on November 1st.

I believe those steps have already started. The no sail order expires Sept 30.  The cruise industry voluntarily extended it to October 31.

[Moviela]

The CDC has been practicing an old magicians trick: Misdirection. While everyone is watching the clock on the CDC no sail order, they have been quietly publishing a regulation (stronger than an order) that allows the CDC to pretty much do as they please at anytime using Covid-19 as pretext to prevent foreign travel. The 37 pages of giving over arching power to the director of the CDC has a section rebutting the public comments complaining of discrimination. The regulation allows obnoxious interference in the operation of lawful businesses and reduction of personal freedoms.

 

SUMMARY:

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) issues this final rule to amend the Foreign Quarantine Regulations administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). This final rule provides a procedure for the CDC Director to suspend the right to introduce and prohibit introduction, in whole or in part, of persons from such foreign countries or places as the Director shall designate in order to avert the danger of the introduction of a quarantinable communicable disease into the United States, and for such period of time as the Director may deem necessary for such purpose.

 

DATES:

 

This final rule is effective on October 13, 2020. 

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/09/11/2020-20036/control-of-communicable-diseases-foreign-quarantine-suspension-of-the-right-to-introduce-and

[skridge]

9 hours ago, Linda the Book Lover said:

It is time to cruise, period. MSC is doing well in Europe and added another ship to their sailings. Yes, there are still cases popping up but I think especially since one could fly all of these months we should also be able to cruise with a good protocol in place. 

Still cases popping up.  There are 7 million cases.  Hospitals are being pushed to capacity in Wisconsin of all places.  Europe is a totally different animal than the US.  Number of cases and willingness of people to comply with the protocols put in place.

[jean87510]

11 minutes ago, skridge said:

Still cases popping up.  There are 7 million cases.  Hospitals are being pushed to capacity in Wisconsin of all places.  Europe is a totally different animal than the US.  Number of cases and willingness of people to comply with the protocols put in place.

I wouldn't exactly say that. I think Europeans are getting fed up also.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/protect-the-economy-or-the-population-the-coronavirus-dilemma-facing-governments-as-protests-escalate-2020-09-30

 

That's just 1 story.  I think people world wide want to get back to normal. 

 

Re Wisconsin, there has been an increase of cases recently but the death toll total since March is 1327. 

 https://www.wbay.com/2020/09/30/wisconsin-reports-record-27-covid-19-deaths-surpasses-120000-cases/

 

FWIW, I think we should be allowed to go back to work and make our own choices. I have to wear a mask for work plus allergies so it doesn't bother me.

 

[PhillyFan33579]

4 hours ago, Moviela said:

 

I would invite your attention to the language of the actual order:

 

"This Order shall remain in effect until the earliest of .....September 30, 2020.

 

Sunsetting orders are often written this way, and the earliest would be when Wednesday started, and means Eastern time unless otherwise specified.

 

I actually read the order on the CDC website and you are 100% correct. 

[MeganGC1983]

So the order has expired, yet why do I still feel like we are in such limbo? Like Someone is about to jump out and say “Not so fast my friend” or “no cruise for you” in my soup nazi voice. 😬🤷🏼‍♀️

[Ryanryanryan]

24 minutes ago, MeganGC1983 said:

So the order has expired, yet why do I still feel like we are in such limbo? Like Someone is about to jump out and say “Not so fast my friend” or “no cruise for you” in my soup nazi voice. 😬🤷🏼‍♀️

The order has been extended until October 31st.

[SOCACRUISEGUY]

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/index.html

[2wheelin]

8 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

 
I am not sure if you realize it, but the cruising industry isn't just about people going on vacation.  The crew members, hotels & their employees, taxi drivers, airlines, tourist operators, and MANY others depend on this industry to make a living.  Something some people think is trivial, can be much more involved.  It's not just about a vacation.  The big picture is more important than a small view, in my opinion.  Perspective should include looking at ALL sides.

Ask a crew member who is sending money home to his/her family if it's just about a vacation.  Ask the people on the islands who depend on this industry to survive.

Right.  Maybe some of those who think cruising should remain closed down simply because “it is just optional frivolity” should give up their toys—boats, tv, new car, electronics—optional non necessities.  It would protect all those workers who could then stay home. 
Based on previous experience, I must issue a sarcasm alert here.

[jimbo5544]

8 hours ago, Ryanryanryan said:

The order has been extended until October 31st.

It has, the question is when it was extended?

[jimbo5544]

so I copied this from the newest version of the no sail order.  Can someone point me to the recent breakouts they describe?

 

Cumulative surveillance data reported to CDC from March 1 through September 29, 2020, shows at least 3,689 COVID-19 or COVID-like illness cases on cruise ships in U.S. waters, in addition to at least 41 reported deaths. We recognize these numbers are likely incomplete and an underestimate.

Recent outbreaks on cruise ships overseas provide current evidence that cruise ship travel continues to transmit and amplify the spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19,—even when ships sail at reduced passenger capacities—and would likely spread the infection  into U.S. communities if passenger operations were to resume prematurely in the United States

[quickrate]

14 hours ago, Isasprings said:

I agree with you. Lots of people here in Miami wanted to go back to work at the Port.

Also, another thing people don't realize is how much the cruise industry being shut down has hurt the farmers etc in port cities. The list goes on and on of how many people's livelyhood has been affected by the shut down of cruising. I'm in the camp of people that believe it can be accomplished with the correct safety protocol in place. I also believe this virus isn't going away and we need to learn how to live with it.  Those that are high risk need to shelter in place and we need to take care adequately of those people.

Pat

[jimbo5544]

6 minutes ago, quickrate said:

Also, another thing people don't realize is how much the cruise industry being shut down has hurt the farmers etc in port cities. The list goes on and on of how many people's livelyhood has been affected by the shut down of cruising. I'm in the camp of people that believe it can be accomplished with the correct safety protocol in place. I also believe this virus isn't going away and we need to learn how to live with it.  Those that are high risk need to shelter in place and we need to take care adequately of those people.

Pat

Well said.  

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, Moviela said:

The 37 pages of giving over arching power to the director of the CDC has a section rebutting the public comments complaining of discrimination. The regulation allows obnoxious interference in the operation of lawful businesses and reduction of personal freedoms.

As the new order states, the CDC and HHS have always had this power, this order merely narrows the focus of some elements to quarantinable diseases.  The authority to refuse entry of a person, or to force quarantine, outside the US, has been part of our laws since the first days of the country.

[ProgRockCruiser]

52 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

so I copied this from the newest version of the no sail order.  Can someone point me to the recent breakouts they describe?

I can only assume they are referring to the MS Roald Amundsen.  I am not aware of any other actual outbreak (that bunch of false positives recently in Greece doesn't count, of course).

 

Ugh.  The CDC's wording is needlessly alarmist.  They could have just said something like "due to at least one COVID-19 outbreak when cruising resumed in Europe, it is clear that risks still exist."

[jimbo5544]

52 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I can only assume they are referring to the MS Roald Amundsen.  I am not aware of any other actual outbreak (that bunch of false positives recently in Greece doesn't count, of course).

 

Ugh.  The CDC's wording is needlessly alarmist.  They could have just said something like "due to at least one COVID-19 outbreak when cruising resumed in Europe, it is clear that risks still exist."

Agree

[evandbob]

Many posters are calling for sheltering those at risk but letting others go about their business.  I hope that means those who are not in high risk groups will use all the mitigation and prevention tools presently at their disposal, and not fight or dispute their importance.

 

That means masks, social distancing, hand washing, etc. should be adapted 100% by those wanting to "go about their business".  I only hope that we don't discover long term damage to internal organs can occur in presently healthy, asymptomatic persons harboring the virus.  It's too soon to tell.

[2wheelin]

4 hours ago, quickrate said:

Also, another thing people don't realize is how much the cruise industry being shut down has hurt the farmers etc in port cities. The list goes on and on of how many people's livelyhood has been affected by the shut down of cruising. I'm in the camp of people that believe it can be accomplished with the correct safety protocol in place. I also believe this virus isn't going away and we need to learn how to live with it.  Those that are high risk need to shelter in place and we need to take care adequately of those people.

Pat

“This virus isn’t going away” and “those that are high risk need to shelter in place”?

Forever? High risk are most of those over 60 and those with underlying conditions. Many of them are still working to pay their bills. So how would that work do you think? Close all retirement communities down? Restrict families? No travel for any of them? How would you adequately care for all these people? Better find a lot more mental health workers as dealing with the problems of isolation of people is already a huge problem.