Great Barrington Declaration, lets get back to Cruising!!

[the more ports the better]

Everyone should read the Great Barrington Declaration.  The declaration is worth a read.  Gives great scientific insight as to the state of COVID lockdowns and repercussions by Harvard, Stanford and Oxford in addition to 25,000 medical professionals and scientists.  Hopefully, we can get back our traveling lives!

 

https://gbdeclaration.org/

[Missusdubbya]

seems legit 😆😆😆 

 

A widely-circulated open letter calling on governments to pursue herd immunity is counting homeopaths, therapists and fake names among its "medical" signatories, leading to accusations that it falsely represents scientific support for the controversial position.

The Great Barrington Declaration, a letter organised by prominent advocates of herd immunity, claims to have been signed by more than 15,000 scientists and medical practitioners, as well as more than 150,000 members of the general public. Yet Sky News found dozens of fake names on the list of medical signatories, which anyone can add to if they tick a box and enter a name. These included Dr. I.P. Freely, Dr. Person Fakename and Dr. Johnny Bananas, who listed himself as a "Dr of Hard Sums".

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronvairus-dr-johnny-bananas-and-dr-person-fakename-among-medical-signatories-on-herd-immunity-open-letter-12099947

[broberts]

What the declaration doesn't mention is that to reach herd immunity would likely result in some 2,000,000 deaths in the U.S. alone.

 

What the declaration glosses over is the actual cost of providing real protection for all of the at risk people. Consider that almost 40% of U.S. adults are obese, just one of the many COVID risk factors.

 

What the declaration glosses over is that adults and children with no preconditions can die from the disease. 

 

How many dead people are the signatories willing to accept. Will any of them volunteer?

 

[twangster]

What makes it "great"?  Why not just a declaration?

[TravelerThom]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

What makes it "great"?  Why not just a declaration?

“Great Barrington” is a town in Massachusetts, which I might guess is where the document was written. In this context great modifies Barrington rather than modifies Declaration. 

[Junkhouse]

6 hours ago, broberts said:

What the declaration glosses over is the actual cost of providing real protection for all of the at risk people. Consider that almost 40% of U.S. adults are obese, just one of the many COVID risk factors.

 

What the declaration glosses over is that adults and children with no preconditions can die from the disease. 

 

How many dead people are the signatories willing to accept. Will any of them volunteer?

Millions of people die yearly from diseases without pre-existing conditions. Lower respiratory illnesses, diarrheal illnesses, malaria, cancer, stroke, tuberculosis, and HIV/AIDS are just a few.
 

Unless you don’t believe WHO.

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Junkhouse

[shipgeeks]

I'm in agreement except for "retired people living at home should have their groceries delivered....".

The term Frail Elderly has changed to Elderly, to Over 60....to "Retired People"?  How is that a health risk category? 

[livingonthebeach]

4 hours ago, TravelerThom said:

“Great Barrington” is a town in Massachusetts, which I might guess is where the document was written. In this context great modifies Barrington rather than modifies Declaration. 

 

Correct, it is a lovely small town in the Berkshires of MA.  That's where it was originally signed.  The declaration does have some merit and is signed by numerous health care workers, doctors and individuals.  Don't know what traction and influence it might have though. 

[njkruzer]

2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Correct, it is a lovely small town in the Berkshires of MA.  That's where it was originally signed.  The declaration does have some merit and is signed by numerous health care workers, doctors and individuals.  Don't know what traction and influence it might have though. 

What were they doing in Great Barrington?  A lovely town but not exactly a place where medical experts hang out. Not a place for conventions.   

[S.A.M.J.R.]

5 hours ago, Junkhouse said:

Millions of people die yearly from diseases without pre-existing conditions. Lower respiratory illnesses, diarrheal illnesses, malaria, cancer, stroke, tuberculosis, and HIV/AIDS are just a few.
 

Unless you don’t believe WHO.

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

 

1) Those counts are GLOBAL, not just US. There's been currently 1M deaths globally attributed to Covid.

2) Many of those millions in that article died from causes that aren't transmittable (cancer, stroke, pulmonary, etc). 

3) Of those causes that ARE transmittable, there are treatments and vaccines that help prevent deaths.  While we do have treatments for Covid, the vaccines are still months (if not years) away. 

[cured]

14 hours ago, the more ports the better said:

Everyone should read the Great Barrington Declaration.  The declaration is worth a read.  Gives great scientific insight as to the state of COVID lockdowns and repercussions by Harvard, Stanford and Oxford in addition to 25,000 medical professionals and scientists.  Hopefully, we can get back our traveling lives!

 

https://gbdeclaration.org/

In order to achieve herd immunity in the USA, another 2 million or more people will need to die.

 

You are advocating killing 2+ million more people JUST so you can get on a cruise ship? Who in your family are you willing to offer up?

 

By the way, Sweden's experiment in herd immunity did not work.  Why would it work in the larger USA?

 

OOPS - I see above has already been covered.

 

I think I will take the scathing rebuke of the US Covid response and their pandemic recommendations  from the esteemed New England Journal of Medicine, derived from some of the world's best actual scientists. over some document signed by non-medical people, self named after a town in New England.

Edited October 11, 2020 by cured

[Missusdubbya]

17 minutes ago, cured said:

I think I will take the scathing rebuke of the Covid response from the esteemed New England Journal of Medicine over some document signed by non-medical people, self named after a town in New England.

But Dr Johnny Bananas did sign off on it 🤣🤣🤣

[time4u2go]

18 minutes ago, cured said:

In order to achieve herd immunity in the USA, another 2 million or more people will need to die.

 

You are advocating killing 2+ million more people JUST so you can get on a cruise ship? Who in your family are you willing to offer up?

 

By the way, Sweden's experiment in herd immunity did not work.  Why would it work in the larger USA?

 

OOPS - I see above has already been covered.

 

I think I will take the scathing rebuke of the Covid response from the esteemed New England Journal of Medicine over some document signed by non-medical people, self named after a town in New England.

Another thing about herd immunity that many people don't consider is how long it would take to achieve it.  For 50% of the US population to catch the virus (not even sure if that's the correct percentage to use), it would take almost 9 years, with an infection rate of 50,000 new infections per day.

[cured]

3 minutes ago, Missusdubbya said:

But Dr Johnny Bananas did sign off on it 🤣🤣🤣

👍With his MD (more drivel) degree from Palm Tree University located on some remote tropical island 😜

Edited October 11, 2020 by cured

[nomad098]

2 minutes ago, cured said:

In order to achieve herd immunity in the USA, another 2 million or more people will need to die.

 

You are advocating killing 2+ million more people JUST so you can get on a cruise ship? Who in your family are you willing to offer up?

 

By the way, Sweden's experiment in herd immunity did not work.  Why would it work in the larger USA?

 

1 hour ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

1) Those counts are GLOBAL, not just US. There's been currently 1M deaths globally attributed to Covid.

2) Many of those millions in that article died from causes that aren't transmittable (cancer, stroke, pulmonary, etc). 

3) Of those causes that ARE transmittable, there are treatments and vaccines that help prevent deaths.  While we do have treatments for Covid, the vaccines are still months (if not years) away. 

 

The Great Barrington Declaration takes into account not only the deaths from COVID-19 but also all the deaths from the unintended consequences of lockdowns and their economic impact on the health of a nation.

 

Comparing COVID-19 to any respiratory infection where reliable treatments are already available is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

for example the Asian flu pandemic killed between 1.5 and 2 million people, the Hong Kong Flu about 1 million and during both of these pandemic's we had a vaccine. Between 290.000 and 650,000 die each year from influenza even though we have a vaccine each year.

 

Comparing COVID-19 to a pandemic where we did not have a vaccine is still not a good comparison COVID-19 estimated deaths for 1 year around the 2 million mark world wide no vaccine, Spanish flu 26-50 million no vaccine.

 

Mainly because these are two totally different viruses with similar symptoms, COVID-19 is behaving like an extremely deadly common cold and as such we need to treat it differently to an influenza pandemic. The actions taken upto now would have stopped the Spanish flu in it's tracks. 

 

For those disparaging Sweden their CFR is 0.058  pretty much on a par with other comparable countries with a similar demographic and when you remember that even though they have a low person to square kilometer most of their population live in large cities and towns.

 

Just because a few numpties put their monika on an open source document does not detract from the validity of the declaration  

 

 

 

 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

1 hour ago, Missusdubbya said:

But Dr Johnny Bananas did sign off on it 🤣🤣🤣

 

I can assure you that Dr. Goodtime did not sign this declaration. 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

45 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

 

 

The Great Barrington Declaration takes into account not only the deaths from COVID-19 but also all the deaths from the unintended consequences of lockdowns and their economic impact on the health of a nation.

 

Comparing COVID-19 to any respiratory infection where reliable treatments are already available is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

for example the Asian flu pandemic killed between 1.5 and 2 million people, the Hong Kong Flu about 1 million and during both of these pandemic's we had a vaccine. Between 290.000 and 650,000 die each year from influenza even though we have a vaccine each year.

 

Comparing COVID-19 to a pandemic where we did not have a vaccine is still not a good comparison COVID-19 estimated deaths for 1 year around the 2 million mark world wide no vaccine, Spanish flu 26-50 million no vaccine.

 

Mainly because these are two totally different viruses with similar symptoms, COVID-19 is behaving like an extremely deadly common cold and as such we need to treat it differently to an influenza pandemic. The actions taken upto now would have stopped the Spanish flu in it's tracks. 

 

For those disparaging Sweden their CFR is 0.058  pretty much on a par with other comparable countries with a similar demographic and when you remember that even though they have a low person to square kilometer most of their population live in large cities and towns.

 

Just because a few numpties put their monika on an open source document does not detract from the validity of the declaration  

 

 

 

 

 

Question... does the declaration count the deaths noted by hospitals that were paid extra money for covid deaths? Asking for a cruising friend. 

[nomad098]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

Another thing about herd immunity that many people don't consider is how long it would take to achieve it.  For 50% of the US population to catch the virus (not even sure if that's the correct percentage to use), it would take almost 9 years, with an infection rate of 50,000 new infections per day.

 

According to the experts who wrote the declaration it would take about 26 months to reach a state of endemic equilibrium with or without a vaccine if we followed their advice. Meaning the virus would be on a par with other respiratory diseases we live with every day.

 

A vaccine will take a minimum of 3 months to never being available.

 

IF a vaccine is available it would take anywhere from 2 years to 10 years to deploy worldwide even then no one knows how long the vaccine will last, will you need booster shots, side effects, long term repercussions and effects, will it give everybody super intelligence, sterilise the population, will it force the infection to mutate and adapt to survive or just vaccinate against the disease No one knows as no long term testing has been possible.

[time4u2go]

1 minute ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Question... does the declaration count the deaths noted by hospitals that were paid extra money for covid deaths? Asking for a cruising friend. 

You can find the text of it here: https://gbdeclaration.org/.  It's actually not very long.

[John Reid]

Virus doesn't care about the Great Barrington Declaration or what its signees believe.

[nomad098]

4 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Question... does the declaration count the deaths noted by hospitals that were paid extra money for covid deaths? Asking for a cruising friend. 

 

I do not know as we have a National Health Service here, but I am aware the hospitals have received extra funding based on severity of the COVID-19 in their hospitals  

[nomad098]

5 minutes ago, John Reid said:

Virus doesn't care about the Great Barrington Declaration or what its signees believe.

 

True but we should care 

[Junkhouse]

5 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

1) Those counts are GLOBAL, not just US. There's been currently 1M deaths globally attributed to Covid.

2) Many of those millions in that article died from causes that aren't transmittable (cancer, stroke, pulmonary, etc). 

3) Of those causes that ARE transmittable, there are treatments and vaccines that help prevent deaths.  While we do have treatments for Covid, the vaccines are still months (if not years) away. 

So if there are treatments, why are millions still dying yearly from the WHO identified diseases? I thought the WHO is supposed to help those countries, and not be political.  But when the WHO president called a cholera outbreak in his country just a case of diarrhea, I have concerns what their real intentions are. 

[broberts]

13 hours ago, Junkhouse said:

Millions of people die yearly from diseases without pre-existing conditions. Lower respiratory illnesses, diarrheal illnesses, malaria, cancer, stroke, tuberculosis, and HIV/AIDS are just a few.
 

Unless you don’t believe WHO.

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

 

 

So, your argument is that since people die from other things we should not bother to worry about COVID?

 

Can you name a single infectious disease other than COVID-19 that kills more than 250,000 people a year in the US?

 

Besides, most people try to avoid infectious diseases. What makes COVID-19 any different?

[Tree_skier]

2 hours ago, Junkhouse said:

So if there are treatments, why are millions still dying yearly from the WHO identified diseases? I thought the WHO is supposed to help those countries, and not be political.  But when the WHO president called a cholera outbreak in his country just a case of diarrhea, I have concerns what their real intentions are. 

WHO has some new advice for again... This advise lines up perfectly with GB declaration.

 

https://www.theepochtimes.com/who-official-urges-world-leaders-to-stop-using-lockdowns-as-primary-method-against-ccp-virus_3534230.html

Edited October 12, 2020 by Tree_skier