Carnival needs Judge approval to Sail

[crazy4themouse]

10 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Maybe Beastly Kingdom, the land based on mythical creatures that was planned but never built in Animal Kingdom. 

 

10 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Haha nice. Most people I mention that to have never heard of it and have no idea what I’m talking about. Good stuff.

 

 

I would sooooo rather have had Beastly Kingdom rather than stupid Pandora... 

 

And on topic, as much as I love Carnival and love cruising with them, they have GOT to get their ^&%$ together once and for all. They have had too much time to fix all this, and while people might have sympathy over COVID-19 shutting them down they definitely don't have sympathy for environmental destruction. But if they haven't learned their lesson in all these years... 

 

 

[Radiioman46]

With the past 6 months and no cruising, how can they fix all the things when they have very little port access to board the proper technicians, supplies and parts needed?

 

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

With the past 6 months and no cruising, how can they fix all the things when they have very little port access to board the proper technicians, supplies and parts needed?

 

The ships have been routinely coming into port for supplies, fuel, and food.  There is no restrictions on any outside technician, if any are needed, joining the ship, provided they have met the local covid restrictions when arriving at the port.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, beerman2 said:

Is that even possible to "fix" in that timeframe?? We can't even be sure Carnival or any other cruise line has done what needs to be for the CDC's approval.

It seems Carnival has an abundance of work to do yet, with the clock ticking towards 2021.

 

 

That all depends on what needs to be "fixed".  Without seeing the latest auditor's report, or the "work list" presented by Carnival, it is pure speculation as to a time frame.

[broberts]

2 hours ago, Radiioman46 said:

With the past 6 months and no cruising, how can they fix all the things when they have very little port access to board the proper technicians, supplies and parts needed?

 

 

Carnival has had years to plan for and assemble any needed resources. Indeed, Carnival has more than sufficient time to have completed corrective actions. Using the pandemic as an excuse is akin to saying "the check is in the mail".

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

They now have the approval. Let's move on and get ready to cruise.

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

They now have the approval. Let's move on and get ready to cruise.

Still a small hurdle, called the CDC.  And, should that certification not meet the judge's requirements, then those ships will be stopped again.

Edited October 22, 2020 by chengkp75

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

25 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Still a small hurdle, called the CDC.  And, should that certification not meet the judge's requirements, then those ships will be stopped again.

I am sure you are aware the the CDC is up to Dec 1st and no longer. UNLESS they change it.

[xDisconnections]

31 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Still a small hurdle, called the CDC.  And, should that certification not meet the judge's requirements, then those ships will be stopped again.

 

5 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

I am sure you are aware the the CDC is up to Dec 1st and no longer. UNLESS they change it.

I wasn’t aware the CDC is up to December 1. I’m under the impression by their website that it currently expires on October 31. Am I reading this incorrectly?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/index.html

 

>>> referencing the No Sail Order only and not any additional internal requirements such as certifications, environmental concerns, etc.

Edited October 22, 2020 by xDisconnections

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

I am sure you are aware the the CDC is up to Dec 1st and no longer. UNLESS they change it.

Actually, the no sail order ends OCT 31st, but just remember when they posted the last extension, after business hours on the last day.  I won't hold my breath that even the Vice President will prevent the order being extended with the current trajectory of the virus.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

Actually, the no sail order ends OCT 31st, but just remember when they posted the last extension, after business hours on the last day.  I won't hold my breath that even the Vice President will prevent the order being extended with the current trajectory of the virus.

My error. Correct. I see no reason for cruises not to start if the ships pass inspection. I have said this before. My personal opinion. I will be safer from catching the virus on a cruise ship now than you are going to the grocery store.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

Any thoughts on why Carnival cancelled the November sailings? My bet they were not ready.

[chengkp75]

20 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

My error. Correct. I see no reason for cruises not to start if the ships pass inspection. I have said this before. My personal opinion. I will be safer from catching the virus on a cruise ship now than you are going to the grocery store.

And, as I've said before, the CDC could care less, really, if you catch covid on a cruise ship.  They are worried about who you may infect once you get off the ship.

19 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Any thoughts on why Carnival cancelled the November sailings? My bet they were not ready.

Bingo.  And I wonder if the 6 ships Carnival chose to restart cruising were the ones most ready environmentally, or based on economics.  Many folks give them a lot more credit for forward thinking than I do.  I personally don't see the no sail order being allowed to expire, or alternatively, the requirements in the no sail order being made permanent federal regulations, so I'm doubtful of cruises this year.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

alternatively, the requirements in the no sail order being made permanent federal regulations, so I'm doubtful of cruises this year.

 

cruises from the US..... Cruising is already happening in other parts of the world. That the US can't get it together just adds more embarrassment.

[travelhound]

5 hours ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

My error. Correct. I see no reason for cruises not to start if the ships pass inspection. I have said this before. My personal opinion. I will be safer from catching the virus on a cruise ship now than you are going to the grocery store.

Good point 

[Arizona Wildcat]

6 hours ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

My error. Correct. I see no reason for cruises not to start if the ships pass inspection. I have said this before. My personal opinion. I will be safer from catching the virus on a cruise ship now than you are going to the grocery store.

If cruise ships use double testing I agree probably safe on board. The issue for most cruisers is getting to and from the ship.  Transport, meals, lodging are significant.   Got to remember that it only takes one asymptomatic cruiser to create a big problem.  You also have also to remember ports like Victoria Canada that have almost no COVID do not want a couple thousand tourists possibly infecting them.

PS - at 7am there is almost nobody at my grocery.  Other than a couple stickers empty for many hours.  Chance of infection if one washes their hands afterward close to zero.

[jimbo5544]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, as I've said before, the CDC could care less, really, if you catch covid on a cruise ship.  They are worried about who you may infect once you get off the ship.

Bingo.  And I wonder if the 6 ships Carnival chose to restart cruising were the ones most ready environmentally, or based on economics.  Many folks give them a lot more credit for forward thinking than I do.  I personally don't see the no sail order being allowed to expire, or alternatively, the requirements in the no sail order being made permanent federal regulations, so I'm doubtful of cruises this year.

Thinking ahead, your thoughts on the Mardi Gras if she sails on 2/6, would the bar be set at the same level in terms of being cleared to sail?

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Thinking ahead, your thoughts on the Mardi Gras if she sails on 2/6, would the bar be set at the same level in terms of being cleared to sail?

Absolutely.  She is only requiring that the ships comply with long existing regulations.  As a new ship, it should have all working equipment, all required spares, and the training and documentation should be taken care of long before the first cruise.  Also, since the ship was being built during this probation, they should have taken every step to ensure that even the most minute thing like separating single serve plastic from food waste was dealt with a combination of systems and operations.  As the judge said before, 12 years later, they're still talking about plastic dumping.  If Carnival is thinking, they should have an auditor over to the yard during the final fit out after sea trials to get a baseline look at how the ship is doing.  At the very least during the TA.

[beerman2]

15 hours ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Any thoughts on why Carnival cancelled the November sailings? My bet they were not ready.

Where is the swami when you need him. That November 2nd "posted" sail date must be a bad dream.

 

There is still much work ahead after the CDC recinds the "no sail", which we can't be sure they will. Cases are spiking again in US , and that is the CDC's main concern.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Absolutely.  She is only requiring that the ships comply with long existing regulations.  As a new ship, it should have all working equipment, all required spares, and the training and documentation should be taken care of long before the first cruise.  Also, since the ship was being built during this probation, they should have taken every step to ensure that even the most minute thing like separating single serve plastic from food waste was dealt with a combination of systems and operations.  As the judge said before, 12 years later, they're still talking about plastic dumping.  If Carnival is thinking, they should have an auditor over to the yard during the final fit out after sea trials to get a baseline look at how the ship is doing.  At the very least during the TA.

You have mentioned previously that when you were at NCL and they were on probation, the attitude from upper management was to get it right despite what it might cost. I hope you are not just attributing this same attitude to Carnival Corporation because frankly they have not so far shown anything like that. If they do show that sort of attitude re the Mardi Gras maybe it will be a turning point. We can hope. 

[sparks1093]

4 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

You have mentioned previously that when you were at NCL and they were on probation, the attitude from upper management was to get it right despite what it might cost. I hope you are not just attributing this same attitude to Carnival Corporation because frankly they have not so far shown anything like that. If they do show that sort of attitude re the Mardi Gras maybe it will be a turning point. We can hope. 

Based on his responses in this thread I don't think the Chief has been impressed at all by Carnival's response and he has contrasted NCL's attitude with CCL's seeming attitude (since he is an outsider looking in like the rest of us). I only know what I've read on these boards and to say that CCL Corp's response all along has been underwhelming would be an understatement.

[ontheweb]

7 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Based on his responses in this thread I don't think the Chief has been impressed at all by Carnival's response and he has contrasted NCL's attitude with CCL's seeming attitude (since he is an outsider looking in like the rest of us). I only know what I've read on these boards and to say that CCL Corp's response all along has been underwhelming would be an understatement.

That is why I said that if they truly follow everything they need to do during the building of the Mardi Gras hopefully it will be a turning point in all their dealings with environmental issues.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

That is why I said that if they truly follow everything they need to do during the building of the Mardi Gras hopefully it will be a turning point in all their dealings with environmental issues.

No, I am definitely not attributing NCL's corporate turn around in attitude to Carnival, in fact the extreme opposite.  And, I don't feel that with the current top management, in particular Mr. Burke, that Carnival's attitude will change.

 

They can install all the fancy whiz-bang environmental equipment on the Mardi Gras that they want to, and if they "encourage" the crew to create "magic pipes" to get around this equipment to save money, then it all becomes moot.  Equipment is one small aspect of getting an environmental compliance culture instilled in a corporation.  For the most part, the crew are more than willing to do whatever is necessary, they don't wake up and say "today let's save the company $10,000 and risk jail time and fines, personally".  No, the attitude comes from the top, and they don't operate the equipment, they make the dollar decisions.  Training and teaching is a larger part of compliance, and as I say, corporate attitude, in the boardroom and in the suites, is by far the largest, and hardest to overcome.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

12 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

If cruise ships use double testing I agree probably safe on board. The issue for most cruisers is getting to and from the ship.  Transport, meals, lodging are significant.   Got to remember that it only takes one asymptomatic cruiser to create a big problem.  You also have also to remember ports like Victoria Canada that have almost no COVID do not want a couple thousand tourists possibly infecting them.

PS - at 7am there is almost nobody at my grocery.  Other than a couple stickers empty for many hours.  Chance of infection if one washes their hands afterward close to zero.

Remember. At a grocery store. No one cleans all the touched and put back items on all the shelves and the produce. Even before the virus. What have those hands touched before touching the goods. So zero chance is not what I think.

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Remember. At a grocery store. No one cleans all the touched and put back items on all the shelves and the produce. Even before the virus. What have those hands touched before touching the goods. So zero chance is not what I think.

And surface contact transmission has been shown to be a very minor vector of transmission for covid.  I'm in close contact with someone in a grocery store for a few minutes, and everyone in the store for an hour or so, while on a ship, I'm in close contact with someone just about all day.