CDC Lifts Cruise Ban

[livingonthebeach]

13 minutes ago, whitshel said:

So let  me get this straight, so the soonest any cruise can depart for the "test" cruises is Dec 30th ?(if they applied for the Covid Cert Yesterday)  So I am booked on Allure on Jan 3rd, 2021 are we all pretty much in agreement that this cruise will not sail?

 

If it is more than 7 days no.  If it is less than 7 and Allure has received its Conditional Sailing Certificate, yes.  Will RCI be able to obtain that certificate according to the application requirements put forth by the CDC by January 3rd?
Doubtful.  You should read the full CDC order and then decide.  

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf

[livingonthebeach]

Here is a good summary of the new Conditional Sail Order by Cruise Industry News:

 

• Cruise lines will need to apply for a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate from the CDC that is based on new health and safety protocols to mitigate the risks of COVID-19. The CDC can approve or deny any permit application, and also revoke it later. 

• Cruise operators will also need to run a series of simulated voyages prior to re-entering service. Simulated voyages will mimic a normal cruise experience and also include drills for potential outbreaks and positive COVID-19 cases aboard. 

• Cruise lines will need a host of new procedures, significant testing capability and response plans to deal with any possible scenario. 

• The CDC will reserve the right to determine passenger and crew capacity, itineraries, ports of call, onboard activities and just about everything else.

• Cruises from the U.S. can be no longer than seven days. The CDC reserves the right to shorten cruises.

• Cruise lines must screen passengers and crew before they embark. Crew will be tested on a weekly basis going forward.

• Ships must conduct "laboratory testing" of all passengers and crew on embarkation and disembarkation in line with CDC guidelines.

• Ships must maintain standards for hand washing, face covering, social distancing and other COVID-19 prevention matters, per the CDC guidelines.

• Cruise operators must modify meal and entertainment services to maintain social distancing.

• In the event of a positive case, cruise lines must disembark and transport guests and crew using non-commercial transportation.

[NavArch64]

The only subtle difference of importance as I understand the CDC order is that the Conditional Sailing Certificate is applied for and issued for each ship, not for each brand or line. I am surprised that the Cruise Industry News summary did not make that clear.

[NavArch64]

Of course, once the first Conditional Sailing Certificate is issued by the CDC for a specific ship in a given brand or line, subsequent Certificates for additional ships from that brand or line should be easier to obtain.

[A&L_Ont]

54 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

Anyone ever sail in a ship with just 50 or 60 percent capacity ???

We were on the Hurricane Dorian extension cruise as well as the extend

one prior. We saw The Columbus musical with 100 people watching, on Harmony,  in the main theatre.
 

The ship was just under 50% capacity. 

[NavArch64]

I also presume that a cruise line or brand can apply to the CDC for Conditional Sailing Certificates for multiple ships in it's fleet at any given time. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Maybe they will apply for all of the ships in a class together.

Edited October 31, 2020 by NavArch64

[livingonthebeach]

12 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

The only subtle difference of importance as I understand the CDC order is that the Conditional Sailing Certificate is applied for and issued for each ship, not for each brand or line. I am surprised that the Cruise Industry News summary did not make that clear.

 

True -- they also didn't mention the quarantine requirements and hospital agreements which are very important. 

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, boscobeans said:

 

 

Anyone ever sail in a ship with just 50 or 60 percent capacity ???

 

 

 

 

Yes, I have, it was delightful.  The level of service was extraordinary.  However on these cruises being discussed crew attending to passengers will also be reduced so I would expect that level of service on these cruises. 

[yogimax]

17 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

We were on the Hurricane Dorian extension cruise as well as the extend

one prior. We saw The Columbus musical with 100 people watching, on Harmony,  in the main theatre.
 

The ship was just under 50% capacity. 

We were on the last Anthem cruise before COVID, reduced fro 9 days to five. Many simply took the refund.   I really don't remember any significant difference other than fewer people in general and easier to win at trivia!

[Pratique]

4 hours ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

What an amazing array of cruising-homer keyboard warriors we have here.  Sadly, your passionate prose is no match for facts and science.

 

Fact:  Cruising is a much MUCH more problematic vector than air travel.  Again, that is a FACT. Come at me with your "arguments" and I laugh because every one demonstrates that most of you do not know what you're talking about.  You have passionate beliefs, but there is little role for "passion" or "belief" in science.

 

But by all means, just keep beating away at those keys.  You are all entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts....

It may be true, but it's unsupported by your post.

 

So there's this: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/11/20-3299_article

 

We conclude that the risk for on-board transmission of SARS-CoV-2 during long flights is real and has the potential to cause COVID-19 clusters of substantial size, even in business class–like settings with spacious seating arrangements well beyond the established distance used to define close contact on airplanes. As long as COVID-19 presents a global pandemic threat in the absence of a good point-of-care test, better on-board infection prevention measures and arrival screening procedures are needed to make flying safe.

[logan25]

1 hour ago, ilockwh said:

The "swamp" in my post was the CDC.

Ok.  I misread your post.  Thought you were saying swamp forces outside the CDC were guiding their actions.

[karl_nj]

8 hours ago, HBE4 said:

 

Oh, and don't forget to mention the air in the plane is 100% refreshed  every 3-5 minutes while the MDR, etc is 100% refreshed...????? who knows????

 

Go!

 

 

Every 4 minutes in the MDR:  https://www.royalcaribbean.com/sgp/en/faq/questions/how-is-air-circulated-and-filtered-onboard

 

On Royal Caribbean ships, 100% fresh ocean air is continuously supplied from outside. The air is drawn from one side of the ship for cooling and ventilation, then removed via exhaust on the opposite side of the ship. This continual intake of fresh air replaces the air in any space, with a total air change up to 12 times an hour in staterooms, and about 15 changes an hour in large public spaces.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

43 minutes ago, karl_nj said:

 

Every 4 minutes in the MDR:  https://www.royalcaribbean.com/sgp/en/faq/questions/how-is-air-circulated-and-filtered-onboard

 

On Royal Caribbean ships, 100% fresh ocean air is continuously supplied from outside. The air is drawn from one side of the ship for cooling and ventilation, then removed via exhaust on the opposite side of the ship. This continual intake of fresh air replaces the air in any space, with a total air change up to 12 times an hour in staterooms, and about 15 changes an hour in large public spaces.

 

Is this new and how it will be going forward? Or how it is now? 

[keyboardjunkie]

3 hours ago, whitshel said:

So let  me get this straight, so the soonest any cruise can depart for the "test" cruises is Dec 30th ?(if they applied for the Covid Cert Yesterday)  So I am booked on Allure on Jan 3rd, 2021 are we all pretty much in agreement that this cruise will not sail?

 

Not necessarily..... There is a critically important word in footnote 18.  That word is 'should' (rather than 'must').  Footnote 18 (page 28) reads:

 

"These materials should be submitted at least 60 calendar days prior to the date on which the cruise ship operator proposes to commence restricted passenger operations."

 

The CDC is very aware of language used in these documents - just read other statements.  They incorporate words such as "A cruise ship operator must submit...." (italicized for emphasis here).  The word used is 'should' which leads me to have hope that the 60 day period is not hard & fast.

[zalusky]

And will they be consistent and apply these rules to other geographies like Down Under, Europe, or Asia?

[karl_nj]

1 hour ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

Is this new and how it will be going forward? Or how it is now? 

It’s new. It’s what they are doing for Quantum in Singapore. I assume they will be able to do the same for the other Quantum class ships, and hopefully other ships. 

[keyboardjunkie]

2 minutes ago, zalusky said:

And will they be consistent and apply these rules to other geographies like Down Under, Europe, or Asia?

 

Why would they?  The CDC only focuses on the USA and its territories.  It is the responsibility of the other countries to determine if they will allow cruising to occur in their country.  Additionally, the USA's relationship with WHO is tenuous so cruise ship rules imposed in the USA by the CDC might not hold any sway in other areas of the world.

[zalusky]

Just now, keyboardjunkie said:

 

Why would they?  The CDC only focuses on the USA and its territories.  It is the responsibility of the other countries to determine if they will allow cruising to occur in their country.  Additionally, the USA's relationship with WHO is tenuous so cruise ship rules imposed in the USA by the CDC might not hold any sway in other areas of the world.

 

And my natural response is what will the CDC think of the RCCL ignoring them in other geographies?

 

Caveat: I actually suspect other geographies will be much tougher than the US at least under this administration.

[karl_nj]

3 minutes ago, zalusky said:

 

And my natural response is what will the CDC think of the RCCL ignoring them in other geographies?

 

Caveat: I actually suspect other geographies will be much tougher than the US at least under this administration.

Various carnival brands and MSC are already sailing cruise ships in Europe. Or they were until the huge increases of infection rates on land. 

[coaster]

Local Tampa media is sharing concerns on sailings resuming. You really need to have a high tolerance level to board a ship right now.

 

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-hillsborough/its-a-suicide-mission-fla-couple-quarantined-on-cruise-ship-reacts-to-cdc-lifting-no-sail-ban?fbclid=IwAR3JaJTLEbskMMdLASeLDAvkEQzyhgqVRng_N708NzLXRlt_QJM48OYofgQ

 

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by coaster

[firefly333]

2 hours ago, coaster said:

Local Tampa media is sharing concerns on sailings resuming. You really need to have a high tolerance level to board a ship right now.

 

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-hillsborough/its-a-suicide-mission-fla-couple-quarantined-on-cruise-ship-reacts-to-cdc-lifting-no-sail-ban?fbclid=IwAR3JaJTLEbskMMdLASeLDAvkEQzyhgqVRng_N708NzLXRlt_QJM48OYofgQ

 

 

Trotting out a couple on princess back in march. Desperate to make scary headlines. If was in my newspaper I would ignore it. Already aware of last march. 

[keyboardjunkie]

2 hours ago, zalusky said:

 

And my natural response is what will the CDC think of the RCCL ignoring them in other geographies?

 

Caveat: I actually suspect other geographies will be much tougher than the US at least under this administration.

 

IMHO, the CDC won't care (well, they will care but it will not influence what they do).  Their role is to protect and monitor what occurs in the USA.  The role of what happens in the global sense falls to WHO which is monitored by the United Nations.

[Aulanis]

On 10/30/2020 at 6:48 PM, island lady said:

Another weird thing....why start with short sailings?  Isn't there a lot more turnover of fresh virus possibilities with more people coming and going more often? 

Yes but , 7 days, if you are "clear" when you board but you were infected en route to the ship or ( maybe unlikely) caught it  off someone on board you would probably be home before you felt ill.   

14 Days , confirmed ill on day 5-7 the ship  has to return back to  start port.

A shipful of unhappy cruisers who also have to self isolate.

[cublet]

8 hours ago, keyboardjunkie said:

 

IMHO, the CDC won't care (well, they will care but it will not influence what they do).  Their role is to protect and monitor what occurs in the USA.  The role of what happens in the global sense falls to WHO which is monitored by the United Nations.

Hello,

 

Yes, but......

 

For as long as the 'Conditional Sail Order' is in force and the ship is to return to US waters, see footnote on page 36:

 

For cruise ship operators with ships that have not been in U.S. waters during the period of the No Sail Order or voluntarily withdrew their ships, the 60-day period will begin upon: (1) CDC confirming to the cruise ship operator in writing that the operator has a complete and accurate NSO response plan, including having submitted to CDC a signed Acknowledgment of No Sail Order Response Plan Completeness and Accuracy; and (2) submission of the EDC form for the 28 days preceding the cruise ship's expected arrival in U.S. waters [my bold].

 

Regards,

 

Cublet

[ipeeinthepool]

9 hours ago, keyboardjunkie said:

 

IMHO, the CDC won't care (well, they will care but it will not influence what they do).  Their role is to protect and monitor what occurs in the USA.  The role of what happens in the global sense falls to WHO which is monitored by the United Nations.

 

Really? Do you really trust the WHO to be responsible for anything regarding this virus?    Politics inside the WHO contributed to the virus being covered up in the early stages of this disease as well as hindering an understanding of the virus. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by ipeeinthepool