Cruising no more support group?

[Red-Sol]

Please bring on the vaccine!

 

Please bring on making having it being required to sail!

 

Please Please Please bring on some 14 day cruises again out of NYC!

 

It is simply amazing to me how so many people even to this day think this is all some kind of giant hoax, or don't need to wear masks or socially distance....you all need to wake up before you no longer have the ability to wake up.

[Jldevlin]

1 hour ago, PelicanBill said:

I love it.

 

"Moreover, I think most will get vaccinated and try to keep it a secret so they can save face."

This made me laugh ....because i can see it happening ....protesting masks and vaccine all the while with the little piece of paper in their back pocket ..

[Laszlo]

18 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

I just recently got the 2nd shot for the shingles vaccine. That night, I couldn't sleep and just felt "bad" (hard to describe). I suspected it was the 2nd shot of the shingles vaccine. After reading your post above, I think I was right. Funny, I don't rmember any reaction after getting the 1st shot, just the 2nd. I agree with you, I'd do it again in a heartbeat to know that I am protected.

 

The funny part was my wife and I got them a week apart. She broke my stones when I was telling her I was feeling so bad, like having the flu. A week later she got her first shot and had the same reaction. She apologized a day later LOL

[Travelicious]

7 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

 

The funny part was my wife and I got them a week apart. She broke my stones when I was telling her I was feeling so bad, like having the flu. A week later she got her first shot and had the same reaction. She apologized a day later LOL

My first shingles shot just made my arm very sore, but I had no other side effects.  I was prepared for another sore arm with the second shot, but it was nothing.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Travelicious

[JamieLogical]

19 hours ago, winterbliss said:

By the way readers..my topic wasn't meant to be misleading. I don't really need a support group because of no cruising. I'm retired RN, seen alot working in health care just like anyone who's worked in same. Obviously, had vaccines...except flu shot. Don't assume everyone who is saying no to this vax is an anti-vaxer.

 

I realize to say anything further is futile. Good luck to all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you haven't said anything at all! You haven't told us WHY you won't get the vaccine. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the vaccine is bad, or even just bad for you, we would love to hear it and potentially offer our understanding and sympathy. But so far you have told us nothing about why you will choose not to get it.

[farmersfight]

10 minutes ago, Travelicious said:

My first shingles shot just made my arm very sore, but I had no other side effects.

 Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. Not only did I feel like "crap" and couldn't sleep after the 2nd shingles shot, my arm was very sore also. Bonus!

[farmersfight]

18 hours ago, Sailing12Away said:

I work in a hospital, and have never seen anything like this before in my life, and hope I never do again.

 

Thank you for all you do working on the front lines during this horrible pandemic. I'm glad folks like you (front line health care workers) and the elderly in LTCF's will be first in line for the new vaccines.

[farmersfight]

4 hours ago, graphicguy said:

That said, no vaccination.....no cruise for you!

 

[All-ready2cruise]

19 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

I just recently got the 2nd shot for the shingles vaccine. That night, I couldn't sleep and just felt "bad" (hard to describe). I suspected it was the 2nd shot of the shingles vaccine. After reading your post above, I think I was right. Funny, I don't rmember any reaction after getting the 1st shot, just the 2nd. I agree with you, I'd do it again in a heartbeat to know that I am protected.

I only got 1 dose of the shingles vaccine. It's b/c Ontario provides the older Zostavax vaccine for free to seniors 65 -70 years. No side effects at all. 

[Red-Sol]

25 minutes ago, farmersfight said:

 Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. Not only did I feel like "crap" and couldn't sleep after the 2nd shingles shot, my arm was very sore also. Bonus!

I have actually had 3 shingles shots. First one was a number of years ago and then there was a determination made that it wasn't too effective. Then this past year I received the 2 dose version...and did indeed have a sore arm afterwards....but small price to pay. Getting shingles is not something people should ever want to go through.

[Red-Sol]

54 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

 

The funny part was my wife and I got them a week apart. She broke my stones when I was telling her I was feeling so bad, like having the flu. A week later she got her first shot and had the same reaction. She apologized a day later LOL

If your wife is like my wife....then even if she apologized..she still wasn't wrong!! 🤣

[ziggyuk]

20 hours ago, winterbliss said:

By the way readers..my topic wasn't meant to be misleading. I don't really need a support group because of no cruising. I'm retired RN, seen alot working in health care just like anyone who's worked in same. Obviously, had vaccines...except flu shot. Don't assume everyone who is saying no to this vax is an anti-vaxer.

 

I realize to say anything further is futile. Good luck to all.

 

In the very first reply I posed a question to you, I really would like to know how you see future cruising, the question was:
 

"The cruise lines will simply not survive with the current restrictions, my question to you would be how do you want the cruise lines to proceed? is it half empty, masked cruises or vaccinated cruises or something else?"

[Turtles06]

1 hour ago, All-ready2cruise said:

I only got 1 dose of the shingles vaccine. It's b/c Ontario provides the older Zostavax vaccine for free to seniors 65 -70 years. No side effects at all. 

 

You might want to look into that a little more. It's my understanding that there is some concern that the effectiveness of Zostavax declines over time, to the point that one may have little or no benefit from it any longer.  It's why the U.S. CDC recommends Shingrix even for people, like me, who had received the Zostavax vaccine. 

 

If I'm reading the page inked below from the Government of Canada web site correctly (apologies if not), it appears that Canada also recommends the Shingrix vaccine for folks 50 and over who've already received the Zostavax vaccine.  (Second bullet point under "Who.")  The recommendation for Zostavax is limited to the specificed instances in the other bullet points.)

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/healthy-living/canadian-immunization-guide-part-4-active-vaccines/page-8-herpes-zoster-(shingles)-vaccine.html

 

Shingrix is two shots, no big deal.  I had no ill effects from the first one, and a bit of a sore arm for a few days after the second.  I'd take that over shingles any day.

 

 

[winterbliss]

4 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

But you haven't said anything at all! You haven't told us WHY you won't get the vaccine. If you have a reasoned argument as to why the vaccine is bad, or even just bad for you, we would love to hear it and potentially offer our understanding and sympathy. But so far you have told us nothing about why you will choose not to get it.

Okay, I'll try to share some of my thoughts as briefly as I can. In full disclosure, I am very health conscious and at the tender age of 65, I don't take any meds. From my many years in nursing and being around people that I know, I've found the high numbers of prescriptions very alarming. My last job in nursing was in long term care and the enormous amounts of drugs I was administering to these lovely people, was ridiculous and so I finally retired after being there for a short time. I felt like it was abuse in a way. My attempts to address same fell on deaf ears. Doctors know best, right?

 

So, with this ongoing pandemic and the so very early vaccine drive... pandemic declared March 11; March 16th - first Moderna first clinical trial began. The PCR test that was being used....watched the interview of Mullis, the inventor who said it wasn't meant to be diagnostic...read as much info as I could find....test was not reliable....so again, more questions.

 

As a nurse, I never ever read one pharmaceutical insert of any vaccine. Now I felt the need to and I was on a mission. I've literally read every Vax insert top to bottom.  I've researched every one to educate myself on as much detail as possible. I didn't even realize the number of toxic additives that many have....Pharm will say these are miniscule amounts. I looked at the recommended Vax schedule now compared to what my daughter born in 1977 had. Just to view the schedule looked unreal. I distrust Big Pharm and I know all too well that there are many doctors that I wouldn't want as my physician. 

 

I'm well aware that many have died. I think one can reasonably assume that the actual numbers that have been infected are much higher. In fact the CDC estimates that is more likely 8x cases which would indicate infection mortality rate is in fact very low.

 

As you can probably see, when one can't even remember when I last took an over the counter pill for anything, and my clear disdain for the amount of pharmaceuticals people are prescribed, I'm not about to jump on the bandwagon to get injected with something that....the potential side effects.....I have no idea. And after all of my vaccine research, I truthfully am starting to wonder if vaccines could be having a negative impact on our long term health. 

 

So, as for.....so we can get back to normal again. I don't understand why when Walmart, Home Depot and liquor stores can be open but shut the doors to restaurants and flower shops. In some places, neighbors have been encouraged to snitch....only one visitor to your own home....again, I question that.

 

There have been many 'not main stream media experts' that have tried to push for focused interventions much earlier on... low risk getting on with life and building up immunity, etc. That was ostracized.....we stayed on this lockdown vaccine driven path.

 

So much for my brief synopsis. This is beginning to be a short story. We love cruising. More than that, I think of all those wait staff, bar staff, laundry staff and room stewards, etc. who we all know send money home to support their families. And I always endeavor to do the right thing, in this world that although it is filled with many wonderful people, is also wrought with those that are not. 

 

 

 

 

 

[oteixeira]

19 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

Okay, I'll try to share some of my thoughts as briefly as I can. In full disclosure, I am very health conscious and at the tender age of 65, I don't take any meds. From my many years in nursing and being around people that I know, I've found the high numbers of prescriptions very alarming. My last job in nursing was in long term care and the enormous amounts of drugs I was administering to these lovely people, was ridiculous and so I finally retired after being there for a short time. I felt like it was abuse in a way. My attempts to address same fell on deaf ears. Doctors know best, right?

 

So, with this ongoing pandemic and the so very early vaccine drive... pandemic declared March 11; March 16th - first Moderna first clinical trial began. The PCR test that was being used....watched the interview of Mullis, the inventor who said it wasn't meant to be diagnostic...read as much info as I could find....test was not reliable....so again, more questions.

 

As a nurse, I never ever read one pharmaceutical insert of any vaccine. Now I felt the need to and I was on a mission. I've literally read every Vax insert top to bottom.  I've researched every one to educate myself on as much detail as possible. I didn't even realize the number of toxic additives that many have....Pharm will say these are miniscule amounts. I looked at the recommended Vax schedule now compared to what my daughter born in 1977 had. Just to view the schedule looked unreal. I distrust Big Pharm and I know all too well that there are many doctors that I wouldn't want as my physician. 

 

I'm well aware that many have died. I think one can reasonably assume that the actual numbers that have been infected are much higher. In fact the CDC estimates that is more likely 8x cases which would indicate infection mortality rate is in fact very low.

 

As you can probably see, when one can't even remember when I last took an over the counter pill for anything, and my clear disdain for the amount of pharmaceuticals people are prescribed, I'm not about to jump on the bandwagon to get injected with something that....the potential side effects.....I have no idea. And after all of my vaccine research, I truthfully am starting to wonder if vaccines could be having a negative impact on our long term health. 

 

So, as for.....so we can get back to normal again. I don't understand why when Walmart, Home Depot and liquor stores can be open but shut the doors to restaurants and flower shops. In some places, neighbors have been encouraged to snitch....only one visitor to your own home....again, I question that.

 

There have been many 'not main stream media experts' that have tried to push for focused interventions much earlier on... low risk getting on with life and building up immunity, etc. That was ostracized.....we stayed on this lockdown vaccine driven path.

 

So much for my brief synopsis. This is beginning to be a short story. We love cruising. More than that, I think of all those wait staff, bar staff, laundry staff and room stewards, etc. who we all know send money home to support their families. And I always endeavor to do the right thing, in this world that although it is filled with many wonderful people, is also wrought with those that are not. 

 

 

 

 

 

So to be clear, you are a full blown anti-vaxxer, you think they are all evil, because of what is in them, and Covid is just a new vax you don't want in you.  Thanks for that....

Most of us don't agree, and don't want you on a ship with us.  I have had many of the vaccines you worry about in my system since youth, and I am 50.  Like you I avoid as many meds as I can, and I take one very small dose prescription for hyper tension which runs in my family, but I don't get the vaccine thing.  If they were so evil I would have been in bad shape many many years ago.  I take a flu vaccine every year (for well over a decade now), have had many other vaccines to travel, etc, etc.  Can you tell me at what point they are going to do me in because of the evil ingredients?  

[BermudaBound2014]

13 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

So to be clear, you are a full blown anti-vaxxer, you think they are all evil, because of what is in them, and Covid is just a new vax you don't want in you.  Thanks for that....

Most of us don't agree, and don't want you on a ship with us.  I have had many of the vaccines you worry about in my system since youth, and I am 50.  Like you I avoid as many meds as I can, and I take one very small dose prescription for hyper tension which runs in my family, but I don't get the vaccine thing.  If they were so evil I would have been in bad shape many many years ago.  I take a flu vaccine every year (for well over a decade now), have had many other vaccines to travel, etc, etc.  Can you tell me at what point they are going to do me in because of the evil ingredients?  

winterbliss said nothing of the sort. The fact that you made such a leap is telling.  I’ve read her honest and well thought reply more than once. Never does she imply all vaccines are evil. She does point out the FACT that the number of ingredients/additives  in today’s vaccines are significantly higher than when you were vaccinated (assuming you were born in 1970). I recommend everyone read vaccine ingredients/additives  before accepting or administering to children under your care. Knowledge is power and to question status quo is a sign of intelligence. Doesn’t mean vaccines are evil- as a parent you can make informed choices about the type of vaccine your child receives. 
 

I will not be first in line to get this vaccine. I make no apologies. I explained the 5 primary reasons for my decision in another thread and asked some pro-Vaxers for their thoughts. I’m still waiting. 
 

I am 💯 fine being excluded from cruising. The cruise ships get to make the rules. I’ll follow them. My choice- my consequences- i do expect a vaccine will be required to cruise and can easily adjust my travel plans.  If the 5 points I brought up are ever answered to my satisfaction I may change my mind. Right now, I am too uneducated to accept this vaccine. Not uneducated by choice, uneducated because the answers to my very ligitamate questions, are still unknown. They simply can’t be know when time has been omitted as a variable. Nature of the warp speed beast. 
 

And no worries, I wear a mask. My vaccinations are up to date, and if covid has taught me anything it’s that I actually live my life socially distanced :). 
 

I will not be shamed into a vaccine anymore than a pro-Vaxer should be cautioned into not getting the jab. A little humanity as we all struggle to make choices best for us and our families is probably in order. And before you get all defensive and state that those of us who don’t vaccinate are endangering your life, think of it with a twist. What if everyone runs out to get the vaccine and it ends up with terrible side effects? Who is left to be your caregivers? 
 

I get this is a passionate topic, but do not forget that there are educated and selfless people on both sides of this coin. 

[JamieLogical]

I understand the desire to avoid an over-dependence and the over-prescription of drugs. It's why I have chosen a VERY conservative doctor for myself. (Not politically conservative, conservative with drug distribution). She has only prescribed me an anti-biotic one time in the 15 years I've been seeing her.

 

However, as with ALL decisions in life, you must weigh the pros vs. the cons and the risks vs. the rewards. To me, I feel the risks with the COVID-19 vaccine are very low compared the the huge reward of resuming normal life. And that's not even factoring in the pro of no longer being at risk of contracting a potentially fatal disease!

 

While you may not think the risk of taking a Tylenol outweighs the reward of getting rid of a headache, where do you typically draw the line? If you developed cancer, would you refuse treatment? If you contracted something that was once deadly, but has been proven to be easily cured with tried and tested medications for decades, like tuberculosis, would you refuse that medication?

 

Also, side note, but the argument about grocery and liquor stores being open while restaurants have to close is such a straw man argument. For someone with a medical background who has done so much research, you should understand how the virus is transmitted by now. Brief encounters while wearing masks have a near-zero chance of spreading the virus. The risk of COVID-19 is exposure times time. Masks cause exposure to be low and at a grocery store or liquor store, the time you spend interacting with a potentially infected individual is not long enough for you to get exposed to enough viral load to be infected yourself. Meanwhile, at a restaurant, you cannot remain masked while eating and I would guess the minimum amount of time spent eating is around 30-40 minutes. Plenty of time for you to be subjected to a high enough viral load to become infected yourself. Some of that risk can be mitigated by distance, which is why many restaurants across the US can be open at limited capacity, but having dozens of people packed into an indoor space, with tables only a couple of feet apart, without masks on is just not safe right now.

[ukbecky]

Different opinions don't necessarily mean that one person is more or less informed than another. The same information can lead to different opinions. Someone can refuse a vaccine based on information(or lack of), just as someone else will choose the vaccine based on their own conclusions.

 

The risk of Covid is greater for my parents, than whatever side effects the vaccine is likely to have. So they will get it as soon as they are able.

 

I think the risk of the virus is low for me and, knowing the problems that the H1N1 vaccine roll-out had, I will wait and see. Or have to get it in order to travel. The choice though, should be mine, and of no concern to anyone else. If I still don't feel comfortable with it, and it's required, then I won't travel. People have never been this self-righteous about flu shots(which I've gotten every.single.year), but somehow think my choice on the Covid shot is open for debate.

 

I wanted to go to Kenya. I was required to get a yellow fever shot, so I did. I also had to take malaria pills. If these things were new to the market, I might've put off my Kenya trip. And no one but me would've cared. 

[PelicanBill]

I also got the single-dose shingles vaccine in September.  At the same time as my flu vaccine. I get no side effect from flu vaccines. But that shingles vaccine made my arm super sore and weak for days, and I was in bed with fever and chills for over 24 hours!  So I plan on getting my covid vaccine on a Friday!

[Turtles06]

15 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

I also got the single-dose shingles vaccine in September.

 

You must have been among the last people in the U.S. to get that vaccine (Zostavax). Its sale and use has been discontinued in the U.S. since November, as Shingrix is considered to offer better and longer-lasting protection, to the point that Shingrix is recommended even for people who have had the Zostavax vaccine.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/shingles/hcp/shingrix/recommendations.html

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Turtles06

[IrieBajan54]

9 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

I also got the single-dose shingles vaccine in September.  At the same time as my flu vaccine. I get no side effect from flu vaccines. But that shingles vaccine made my arm super sore and weak for days, and I was in bed with fever and chills for over 24 hours!  So I plan on getting my covid vaccine on a Friday!

.

I got Zostavax a few years before the newer Shingrix. I had similar side effects like you from my first dose of Shingrix. However, the second dose was mild. Since I was aware of what would happen, I got mine on a Friday so I would be laid up over the two weekends.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by IrieBajan54
correction

[Sailing12Away]

Just something to point out that some folks may not realize. The new vaccine and PCR tests that appear to have come overnight, and make people falsely believe they are not accurate or were "rushed" is simply not true. 

 

Think about it... this virus is coined Covid-19. Where did that 19 come from? Viruses mutate, they change constantly, which is why we still don't have a vaccine for HIV which sprang up back in the 80's. Pharmaceutical companies and laboratory diagnostic companies had already been working on a Corona virus vaccine and test kit many years prior - there simply wasn't a market for it at that time because those variants didn't prove to be as deadly, so the projects were dropped. (We've been testing for the regular Corona virus family of pathogens for years, now we have to add a disclaimer to those results to tell docs that this doesn't pick up #19, there's a separate test for that one.)

 

In comes magic mutation #19 and it's a freaking beast. Rather than starting from scratch and having to take 5-8 years of research and development, those scientists used what they had already learned from the first 18 strains and went from there, being able to speed track the final development steps and go into phases 1 & 2 of clinical trials faster than normal. 

 

I get it, it seems fast and rushed and it's scary, and big pharma makes more money than they probably deserve - but this wasn't concocted overnight in some mad scientist's basement just to earn their CEO enough money to upgrade his yacht and purchase one of these ships that the cruise lines are now trying to sell to stay afloat.

 

The ideas of letting those low risk folks go back to life as usual and build their herd immunity - yeah, they don't work. Because people are stupid and selfish and young folks think that nothing will happen to them, so they don't follow the rules. Which is why we've tried so hard to go back to opening, and have to keep back tracking because people don't listen. Hence the harsh requirements for isolation, because people just don't listen or just don't care.

[tallnthensome]

16 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

Just something to point out that some folks may not realize. The new vaccine and PCR tests that appear to have come overnight, and make people falsely believe they are not accurate or were "rushed" is simply not true. 

 

Think about it... this virus is coined Covid-19. Where did that 19 come from? Viruses mutate, they change constantly, which is why we still don't have a vaccine for HIV which sprang up back in the 80's. Pharmaceutical companies and laboratory diagnostic companies had already been working on a Corona virus vaccine and test kit many years prior - there simply wasn't a market for it at that time because those variants didn't prove to be as deadly, so the projects were dropped. (We've been testing for the regular Corona virus family of pathogens for years, now we have to add a disclaimer to those results to tell docs that this doesn't pick up #19, there's a separate test for that one.)

 

In comes magic mutation #19 and it's a freaking beast. Rather than starting from scratch and having to take 5-8 years of research and development, those scientists used what they had already learned from the first 18 strains and went from there, being able to speed track the final development steps and go into phases 1 & 2 of clinical trials faster than normal. 

 

I get it, it seems fast and rushed and it's scary, and big pharma makes more money than they probably deserve - but this wasn't concocted overnight in some mad scientist's basement just to earn their CEO enough money to upgrade his yacht and purchase one of these ships that the cruise lines are now trying to sell to stay afloat.

 

The ideas of letting those low risk folks go back to life as usual and build their herd immunity - yeah, they don't work. Because people are stupid and selfish and young folks think that nothing will happen to them, so they don't follow the rules. Which is why we've tried so hard to go back to opening, and have to keep back tracking because people don't listen. Hence the harsh requirements for isolation, because people just don't listen or just don't care.

^^^^ Correct ..... and exactly why Moderna was able to develop their vaccine in two days. 

[Turtles06]

22 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

Think about it... this virus is coined Covid-19....In comes magic mutation #19 and it's a freaking beast.

Sorry, but the 19 is short for 2019, the year this disease first appeared. Also, Covid-19 is not the name of the virus, it’s the name of the illness caused by a virus.  The name of the virus that causes this illness is the coronavirus, the second strain.  (Think HIV, the name of the virus that causes the illness called AIDS.)  Here’s an explanation:

https://blogs.webmd.com/public-health/20200713/why-is-it-called-covid19

 

You are correct that this is not the first appearance of a coronavirus, but it’s not the 19th mutation or strain.   I agree with you that the new vaccines weren’t starting from scratch, and I share your disdain for the selfish folks who refuse to wear masks, but I think it’s important to explain things correctly. 

 

[JamieLogical]

38 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

Sorry, but the 19 is short for 2019, the year this disease first appeared. Also, Covid-19 is not the name of the virus, it’s the name of the illness caused by a virus.  The name of the virus that causes this illness is the coronavirus, the second strain.  (Think HIV, the name of the virus that causes the illness called AIDS.)  Here’s an explanation:

https://blogs.webmd.com/public-health/20200713/why-is-it-called-covid19

 

You are correct that this is not the first appearance of a coronavirus, but it’s not the 19th mutation or strain.   I agree with you that the new vaccines weren’t starting from scratch, and I share your disdain for the selfish folks who refuse to wear masks, but I think it’s important to explain things correctly. 

 

 

You beat me to it. The 19 is the year, not the mutation. Definitely, the work done on SARS and MERS have helped scientists move more quickly on testing, vaccines, and treatments though.

Edited December 6, 2020 by JamieLogical