WILL PRICES EVER COME DOWN?

[ECCruise]

17 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

You aren't going to be able to compare prices to years past. It's just not realistic in today's environment. 

 

Out of curiosity, I was watching 3 cruises on 3 different lines. 10+ days over Christmas 2021 was my only real requirement. All cabins are standard level cabins, midship, one deck above the lowest possible deck and aside from any special TA deals, extra OBC, etc. As people who purchase drinks and WiFi anyway, the winner is pretty clear. This scenario isn't really specific to these holiday sailings either. I would say Royal Caribbean is the absurd player here with that cruise on Vision OTS. 

 

Vision of the Seas		Celebrity Equinox		Enchanted Princess
10 night		11 night		10 night
Dec 24 2021		Dec 22 2021		Dec 20 2021
$5,064 base		$6,103 base		$6,238 base
$1,400 drinks/WiFi		Grats/Drinks/WiFi		Grats/Drinks/WiFi
$290 grats
$6,754		$6,103		$6,238
$337 pp/pd		$277 pp/pd		$311 pp/pd

Edit:

You are correct.  

I am an idiot. 😀

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by ECCruise

[ABoatNerd]

59 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Why the hate?  Because we have been fairly loyal to them for the last 20 years and the new prices are, quite frankly, a rip off.

So yes, we can "not do it," (and have multiple times in the last few weeks) but when they play you for an idiot for trying to get those ridiculous prices, it stings.

 Exactly ECCruise.

Celebrity's arrogance since LLP arrived has driven many customers on these boards away and who knows how many others and think of the people who are no longer recommending Celebrity.

LLP thinks the consumer is stupid and will not notice the loss of the Sky Lounge and that they will embrace incense in the Edge class lounge. LLP also thinks that Celebrity is so good that people will follow - Not.

Add in the prices which do not correlate to the product and are not aligned with the product offering of the premium lines = backlash.

In my opinion, Celebrity is the most downgraded of all the cruise lines since 2015 while frankly lying about their on board experience, hence why so many have moved on.

Their arrogance is still on display, so obviously they have learned nothing.

 

[ChucktownSteve]

9 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

LLP thinks the consumer is stupid and will not notice the loss of the Sky Lounge and that they will embrace incense in the Edge class lounge. LLP also thinks that Celebrity is so good that people will follow - Not.

 

 

Maybe LLP is correct.  The proof is if people are still willing to pay for her product regardless of reduced service/food quality and increased price. They do want the millennials.

Edited January 11, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[ABoatNerd]

Just now, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Maybe LLP is correct.  The proof is if people are still willing to pay for her product regardless of reduced service/food quality and increased price.

Taking a different perspective than my post, a corporate perspective, you are totally correct!!!!!

My company had a plaque in our conference room "Thank God For The Obedient Consumer" - it is totally true.

Celebrity patronage is an example of obedient consumerism. 

There is the other historical saying "There is a sucker born every minute" is also true in all consumer purchases.

I, and my travel group, will not patronize Celebrity due to their poor value proposition. 

But to each their own.

Keep well!

 

[iancal]

^+1.

 

We like Celebrity. It is our preferred line-especially the Solstice class ships.

 

But....we are not going to pay above the odds simply to board a Celebrity ship.  We compare to other cruise alternatives and to other travel options.

 

Loyalty....why on earth be loyal to a vendor, let alone a cruise line? 

 

We are loyal to our perceptions of value for money.    The next cruise could well be Celebrity....or it could just as easily be another cruise line or a land trip for that matter.

 

I had a neighbor who bought a new Cadillac every three or four years.  Until the day he decided to stop at a Lexus dealership.

Edited January 11, 2021 by iancal

[TeeRick]

I find it funny that some here speak about LLP as if they personally know her and have a direct line into everything she is thinking.  But I do understand looking at Celebrity pre and post LLP's appointment as head of the line.  That is fair game with any CEO.  But we must keep in mind that the President/CEO's  job and number 1 responsibility is to keep shareholders happy and keep the line profitable going forward.  If the ships are full and profitable then she has done her job.  If not she will be replaced.  CEO's tend to have a short leash.

[ChucktownSteve]

6 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I find it funny that some here speak about LLP as if they personally know her and have a direct line into everything she is thinking.  But I do understand looking at Celebrity pre and post LLP's appointment as head of the line.  That is fair game with any CEO.  But we must keep in mind that the President/CEO's  job and number 1 responsibility is to keep shareholders happy and keep the line profitable going forward.  If the ships are full and profitable then she has done her job.  If not she will be replaced.  CEO's tend to have a short leash.

 

Wouldn't you agree that everything about Celebrity flows from the top down? Starts at Fain and rolls to LLP who was put in her current position because of the great job she did cutting costs at RCL.  She has continued that at =XX= very well.  I judge people on their actions not their rhetoric.  So I know her from her actions.

 

Once the FCC's get devoured by the higher cruise pricing, do you believe she'll be able to keep her ships full and profitable?

[TeeRick]

6 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Wouldn't you agree that everything about Celebrity flows from the top down? Starts at Fain and rolls to LLP who was put in her current position because of the great job she did cutting costs at RCL.  She has continued that at =XX= very well.  I judge people on their actions not their rhetoric.  So I know her from her actions.

 

Once the FCC's get devoured by the higher cruise pricing, do you believe she'll be able to keep her ships full and profitable?

Honestly I do not know.  She will certainly try as her job depends on it.  But can any cruise line return to pre-pandemic profitability?  Most analysts are saying perhaps in 5 years.

[weregoingcruising]

1 hour ago, ABoatNerd said:

Taking a different perspective than my post, a corporate perspective, you are totally correct!!!!!

My company had a plaque in our conference room "Thank God For The Obedient Consumer" - it is totally true.

Celebrity patronage is an example of obedient consumerism. 

There is the other historical saying "There is a sucker born every minute" is also true in all consumer purchases.

I, and my travel group, will not patronize Celebrity due to their poor value proposition. 

But to each their own.

Keep well!

 

I wish you happy cruising on the other lines.

Good by

[ChucktownSteve]

43 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Honestly I do not know.  She will certainly try as her job depends on it.  But can any cruise line return to pre-pandemic profitability?  Most analysts are saying perhaps in 5 years.

 

So if that is the case and the analysts are correct, then excessively raising prices, appears to me, to be counter productive to fill the ships going forward.  Therefore I suggest the high pricing is to consume the high FCC volume at more than the 125% compensation with the non FCC cruisers caught in the vortex.  Restricting the L&S and causing a large number of customers to be forced to book at prevailing rates or to forfeit their deposits appears to be alienating a lot of people.  That's the short game not long game.

 

Fortunately I'm not affected by all of this yet.  My January 2021 Edge was able to L&S to Apex February 2022 with the protected rate and perks.  The three additional cruises are on two other lines thru 9/2022.

Edited January 11, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[marieps]

12 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

Fortunately I'm not affected by all of this yet.  My January 2021 Edge was able to L&S to Apex February 2022 with the protected rate and perks.  The three additional cruises are on two other lines thru 9/2022.

I opted not to use my FCCs for a 2022 Equinox when I saw the price had gobbled up the whole sum.   We're using most to pay full on a Bermuda Summit booked before the virus, and the rest on a little Millie cruise in Feb 2022.   I was not held hostage by the prices, TGFT

[Jeremiah1212]

Ahh the classic "LLP" comments.

 

If I'm the CEO in 2020 and said let's just keep things exactly the way they were in 2018. That was a good year. In fact, let's increase our costs and keep prices really really low so people pay the same they did in 2017 and 2018 as they will in 2021 and beyond and so they can eat the same perceived food quality they ate on their first cruise in 1978. We have millions in credits outstanding, no operating income for more than a year, we don't know when we will return to service, and we don't know how long it will be before we can fill a ship to capacity after that. The billions we had to borrow will go away some day some how. But let's just keep things exactly as they were. 

 

How quickly am I shown the door????

[ChucktownSteve]

3 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

Ahh the classic "LLP" comments.

 

If I'm the CEO in 2020 and said let's just keep things exactly the way they were in 2018. That was a good year. In fact, let's increase our costs and keep prices really really low so people pay the same they did in 2017 and 2018 as they will in 2021 and beyond and so they can eat the same perceived food quality they ate on their first cruise in 1978. We have millions in credits outstanding, no operating income for more than a year, we don't know when we will return to service, and we don't know how long it will be before we can fill a ship to capacity after that. The billions we had to borrow will go away some day some how. But let's just keep things exactly as they were. 

 

How quickly am I shown the door????

 

I don't recall anyone saying they expected that.  If I had to purchase my L&S at the prevailing rate, which was booked less than six months earlier, I would have had to pay more than twice the price for identical everything.  I would have done what Marieps did if I had another cruise booked or gotten the refund if I could have.

[HMR74]

No evaluation can be made yet--first cruises off the US are not going yet. Even when they start and people booked later this year see the experience is not so good, if that's the case, they will see the 90 day cancellations across the board, not just Celebrity.

 

The problem is cruising  with celebrity is no longer a good value

 

So,  I will keep my 2022 cruise intact and if prices do not go down  by the 90 day point , I will cancel. .

If a lot of folks do its a game changer for Celebrity.

 

Perhaps Celebrity wants to change over to a younger cruiser--the older of us have expensive perks. And many Floridians which upper level points pick a last minute cheap cruise and they do not want he last minute cheap cruises with points who go to happy hour for the free drinks and not buy much in the way of drinks. But get laundry and other perks.

If they pull that strategy off, good for them as it wil be without my money

 

I remember when Princess was the top line in this segment then Celebrity took over.

 

And during the Pandemic, an extraordinary circumstance, the CEO of a company has a responsibility of keeping the  company  in business to TAKE market share from a dumber company--survival of the fittest. Ya do not want to be the dumber company rolling the dice.

 

It is a tough job and frankly, the MBA's coming in my business sector, auto parts, were arrogant, lazy and thought if they do one thing right they get promoted. all too often they sounded great while shooting wildly. Or throwing stuff up on the wall to see what sticks.

 

My plaque on my desk--If two people  in the same organization think alike, one is redundant.

If everybody agrees with the CEO too often you do not get best results and we do not know those dynamics at Celebrity.

 

Give you another clue. I had a question of Investor Relations back in August--I made 2 calls and left messages and no response.

 

They also have an e mail address for customer service. I e mailed that and received no response.  I have been told that e mail address is active--turtle active maybe.

15 days ago I called on an issue and a separate question and I was told they would get back to be by Wednesday of Christmas, I never received a call back.

 

Tells me the administration there leaves something to be desired.

They are in the customer satisfaction business, and I have seen it go downhill and that's the responsibility of "leadership" and I am guessing that "leadership" is in over its head.

 

The issue for me is to find a way where I come out of this happy with my position. That's going to be tough since there is nobody to speak with there that can influence decisions. You cannot even get their e mails so their assistants can respond saying no politely.

 

So when that happens all we can do is vent our frustrations here  and find alternatives.

 

BTW, if we go on the April 2022 cruise it will be the 4th cruise where the ships should have been revolutionized but that was deferred. Right now I am thinking about throwing  duffel bags in the car and going on a 4-6 week driving trip of the US.

 

Unless they are so tight on money, IMHO, they should have found a way to use the down time to drydock and revolutionize all the ships so upon return they would be sparkling clean and updated, and along with higher levels of food and service.  But that's my management opinion. Companies usually have deals to lure customers back, Celebrity raised prices and will take ships out of service for a month and that would be something  to laugh at if demand comes back and they cannot handle it.  Because management failed. Not the crews, but management.

 

 

 

 

[HMR74]

here is another management issue--all thru these months, I received many marketing e mails,  some overall updates, but not a one about my particular cruises. I had to do my own work to see what the status was going to be. I know several ports were closed and the ending port was closed, not certain about the starting point.

 

 They waited till just inside  the 90 days in both cruises to cancel them.

I have about 4500 at risk with RCL et al. Trying to find a way to work those off.

If I can't I can't but I have to try.

[Jeremiah1212]

18 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

 

Unless they are so tight on money, IMHO, they should have found a way to use the down time to drydock and revolutionize all the ships so upon return they would be sparkling clean and updated, and along with higher levels of food and service.  But that's my management opinion. 

 

When the world's supply chain and labor market are broken, it doesn't matter how much money you can throw at it. If they can't get materials and labor, it isn't happening. 

[HMR74]

21 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

When the world's supply chain and labor market are broken, it doesn't matter how much money you can throw at it. If they can't get materials and labor, it isn't happening. 

well, then they should not have raised prices so much. They from an operational perspective should be hitting the ground running when cruising restarts.

 

any of us can check how much the officers are paid, however they get paid to do the very difficult things. Like whats happening now, and not put the company in jeopardy by borrowing so much to put new mega ships  out. They took a risk and are paying for it now. It is all about risk and reward.

[zitsky]

If your business has no income, would you renovate your storefronts to attract new customers?

[HMR74]

2 minutes ago, zitsky said:

If your business has no income, would you renovate your storefronts to attract new customers?

if I am selling 2-3 years of future business at much higher price, I would have to find a way.

Or close down.

 

Who wants to cruise on tired ships paying 50% more than last year.

[HMR74]

actually, if I had a good balance sheet,  and a great product, and a good feel for whats going on, during the down time I would fix up things.

 

I would do everything to be ready to take market share. If things are really bad it will not make a difference but if there is a light at the end of the tunnel, then go for the market share

 

But RCL does not have a good balance sheet then or especially now.

 

That' s why in capitalism its called the survival of the fittest.

 

What we did in bad recessions was to buy impaired competitors. But we had a great balance sheet and foundation.

 

It was in the late 70's and our  customers got financing thru us. They never left after that.

 

Lesson, be customer focused. Show the customer you respect them and wil support them.

 

Celebrity missed that lesson and as well to not over extend yourself.

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by HMR74

[LGW59]

5 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

 Exactly ECCruise.

Celebrity's arrogance since LLP arrived has driven many customers on these boards away and who knows how many others and think of the people who are no longer recommending Celebrity.

LLP thinks the consumer is stupid and will not notice the loss of the Sky Lounge and that they will embrace incense in the Edge class lounge. LLP also thinks that Celebrity is so good that people will follow - Not.

Add in the prices which do not correlate to the product and are not aligned with the product offering of the premium lines = backlash.

In my opinion, Celebrity is the most downgraded of all the cruise lines since 2015 while frankly lying about their on board experience, hence why so many have moved on.

Their arrogance is still on display, so obviously they have learned nothing.

 

Is it safe to assume you won't be sailing on Celebrity again, IDK just reading between the lines.

[ECCruise]

2 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Is it safe to assume you won't be sailing on Celebrity again, IDK just reading between the lines.

No, not at all.  Would love to have our 33rd Celebrity cruise booked. But I simply refuse to pay the prices that they feel are fair for the product.

 

I have never paid more than $600 or so per day (total for 2)  for any mainstream line. That includes nothing less than balcony, mostly AQ or Concierge at much less per diem,  but lots of suites, lots of different lines, including large suites (2BR/2BA, i.e.). 

The prices I quoted earlier is the reason why I will pass.  And for a pretty vanilla itinerary, so nothing exotic by any means.

 

February 2022, Eclipse 12 day OZ/NZ.  AQ total for refundable fare: $8,537.22 USD  ($711 per day)

February 2022, Emerald Princess, 13 Day OZ/NZ, Mini suite total for refundable fare: $5527.00 ($425 per day) which just got re-fared today for $4573.28 ($347 per day).

 

I looked at Celebrity first, as always.  But no way I pay double+ on =X= to get an inferior cabin (a guarantee, no less!)

 

 

[HMR74]

well, I jut spent a couple of hours looking at alternative Celebrity Cruises.  Did not get far looking for a bargain. eg, Infinity, AQ at side far back in ship 11th level.

based out at 3500 PP for 12 days.

 

We had mid ship Infinity  for the 2 of us for a 14 day TA less than 2 years ago AQ. for the same price, after adding in wifi and drinks. grats were separate then. that was 2 years ago.

 

Also found out pricing on indulge vs ala carte

 

its 60 pp per day to get premium drinks and xcellerate Wifi. and for a 14 day cruise thats 1680 for the package for 2, , less in theory the 800 of non refundable OBC--

cost for 2 is net 880 (but then we have to buy what we do not want to pay for, eg more expensive excursions. (which by the way, with CDC rules, will we be forced to take celebs $$$$$ excursions  or be stuck on ship, not able even to walk around? that's not been formally announced.)

 

now the drink package upgrade is still 12 a day PP with tax or 336. Separately the classic was regularly priced at 59pp per day, and the blue plate special was 49 and premium was 69 cut to 59. The wifi "upgrade" i'd bought ala carte is 20 per day PP, that's 560 in ala carte internet  for a 14 day cruise. --and just a year ago I paid 380ish for the total wifi access for 2 for 16 days. The price of wifi has just gone up.

 

So, I wave my white flag, I give up, they win. Not an iota of real help.They did say the TA's are being given compensation but none of them are giving away anything special. A certain club company give more thru its travel group. But their win means I will spend less.

 

I have no out of pocket cost at this point to hold onto the cruises  using my FCC and I doubt the prices will come down, but again, at this point I do not want to spend 6k more to save 1800.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LGW59]

3 hours ago, ECCruise said:

No, not at all.  Would love to have our 33rd Celebrity cruise booked. But I simply refuse to pay the prices that they feel are fair for the product.

 

I have never paid more than $600 or so per day (total for 2)  for any mainstream line. That includes nothing less than balcony, mostly AQ or Concierge at much less per diem,  but lots of suites, lots of different lines, including large suites (2BR/2BA, i.e.). 

The prices I quoted earlier is the reason why I will pass.  And for a pretty vanilla itinerary, so nothing exotic by any means.

 

February 2022, Eclipse 12 day OZ/NZ.  AQ total for refundable fare: $8,537.22 USD  ($711 per day)

February 2022, Emerald Princess, 13 Day OZ/NZ, Mini suite total for refundable fare: $5527.00 ($425 per day) which just got re-fared today for $4573.28 ($347 per day).

 

I looked at Celebrity first, as always.  But no way I pay double+ on =X= to get an inferior cabin (a guarantee, no less!)

 

 

sounds like decision made. good on you

[LGW59]

26 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

well, I jut spent a couple of hours looking at alternative Celebrity Cruises.  Did not get far looking for a bargain. eg, Infinity, AQ at side far back in ship 11th level.

based out at 3500 PP for 12 days.

 

We had mid ship Infinity  for the 2 of us for a 14 day TA less than 2 years ago AQ. for the same price, after adding in wifi and drinks. grats were separate then. that was 2 years ago.

 

Also found out pricing on indulge vs ala carte

 

its 60 pp per day to get premium drinks and xcellerate Wifi. and for a 14 day cruise thats 1680 for the package for 2, , less in theory the 800 of non refundable OBC--

cost for 2 is net 880 (but then we have to buy what we do not want to pay for, eg more expensive excursions. (which by the way, with CDC rules, will we be forced to take celebs $$$$$ excursions  or be stuck on ship, not able even to walk around? that's not been formally announced.)

 

now the drink package upgrade is still 12 a day PP with tax or 336. Separately the classic was regularly priced at 59pp per day, and the blue plate special was 49 and premium was 69 cut to 59. The wifi "upgrade" i'd bought ala carte is 20 per day PP, that's 560 in ala carte internet  for a 14 day cruise. --and just a year ago I paid 380ish for the total wifi access for 2 for 16 days. The price of wifi has just gone up.

 

So, I wave my white flag, I give up, they win. Not an iota of real help.They did say the TA's are being given compensation but none of them are giving away anything special. A certain club company give more thru its travel group. But their win means I will spend less.

 

I have no out of pocket cost at this point to hold onto the cruises  using my FCC and I doubt the prices will come down, but again, at this point I do not want to spend 6k more to save 1800.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Best of luck on whatever you decide. will just be nice to cruise again I am sure.