I Guess Alaska Cruises Will Be Cancelled Soon

[bluesea777]

Came across this in another thread ....

 

Travel Juneau asks Biden administration for aid in 2021 visitor season (msn.com)

 

mmmm ......

 

 

[don't-use-real-name]

A tough call - - -

Hawaii and the NCL POA is a year around market - virus exception

Alaska is at best a half year market for the cruise industry

An immediate waiver of the PVSA would help a great deal to salvage the 2021 season.

Seattle would not have to be the sole port for the Alaska destination.

San Diego Los Angeles and San Francisco have cruise facilities available adding perhaps

2-3 days of sea travel to get to Alaska.

Originate at one or port call at all three - subject to a waiver

Cruising the INSIDE Vancouver Island passage (Canadian waters) is not a requirement

There are two Alaska ports (Seward and Whittier) for Anchorage interior travels

Fairbanks has air and the Alaska Railroad for possibilities.

The Alaska Railroad needs a tourist boost too

At Skagway the White Pass & Yukon Railroad could just go to the Canadian border and return

Possibilities exist for seeing ALL the glaciers in one cruise trip without the Canadian factor

 

NOW - IF ONLY - SOMETHING - CAN - BE - DONE - SOOON !!!

 

As far as the East Coast is concerned -

From Florida to New England there are plenty of possibilities for the autumn cruises -

YES it would miss Halifax Sydney Quebec City Montreal St. Johns Bay Charlottetown

but then there is Bar Harbor Portland Boston New York and a host of other small

tender ports - something just for the immediate next two years a waiver being granted.

 

 

[bonvoyagie]

I see where both HAL and Princess are looking at doing land portions of their cruisetours as a way to keep their lodges open. The industry still has to get around the CDC requirements - which at this time is more restictive than the Canada port closure and the PVSA.

[SouthLyonCruiser]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:37 AM, ColeThornton said:

 

The PVSA deals with passengers and the Jones Act deals with cargo.

 

p.s.  You're still wrong.  🙂

I would certainly like to see the portion of the law that states that passengers must get off. If I am wrong I woul like to see more than a general statement.

[andychris]

I wonder when NCL will officially cancel cruises to Alaska.  We have one booked and final payement is in April.  Will hate to pay and get a credit.  

[AstoriaPreppy]

2 hours ago, andychris said:

I wonder when NCL will officially cancel cruises to Alaska.  We have one booked and final payement is in April.  Will hate to pay and get a credit.  

Unlike the other big lines in Alaska, NCL is *still* accepting reservations and payments for the 2021 Alaskan season. I'm not sure if Princess and Holland America have officially canceled these voyages, but you certainly can't book them anymore. 

Based on past action, I wouldn't expect NCL to officially "cancel" these cruises until the final payment date has passed. 

[jetact]

2 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

Unlike the other big lines in Alaska, NCL is *still* accepting reservations and payments for the 2021 Alaskan season. I'm not sure if Princess and Holland America have officially canceled these voyages, but you certainly can't book them anymore. 

Based on past action, I wouldn't expect NCL to officially "cancel" these cruises until the final payment date has passed. 

Now that is just wrong. I have an Alaska cruise booked in October and would hate for them to wait until after the final payment and then cancel when they knew all along they were not going to sail.  I really dont want them holding $13,000.00 of my money that they wont refund in cash. 

[Yo Adrienne]

3 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

Unlike the other big lines in Alaska, NCL is *still* accepting reservations and payments for the 2021 Alaskan season. I'm not sure if Princess and Holland America have officially canceled these voyages, but you certainly can't book them anymore. 

Based on past action, I wouldn't expect NCL to officially "cancel" these cruises until the final payment date has passed. 

 

5 minutes ago, jetact said:

Now that is just wrong. I have an Alaska cruise booked in October and would hate for them to wait until after the final payment and then cancel when they knew all along they were not going to sail.  I really dont want them holding $13,000.00 of my money that they wont refund in cash. 

 

I just received an email from NCL saying that instead of final payment being due 120 or even 90 days out, they're reducing it to being due 60 days out.  I guess I understand that they're still hopeful there will be an Alaskan season (somehow)...and that they're still trying to get some cash in the door.  But, we're (sadly) getting more confident that our September Alaskan cruise will be cancelled...so if the cruise isn't cancelled by the time our final payment is due (now early July), we'll just get a refund of the deposit at that time. 

[All-ready2cruise]

43 minutes ago, Yo Adrienne said:

final payment being due 120 or even 90 days out, they're reducing it to being due 60 days out

Right. This, while there hasn't been much discussion about it, has been the policy for the last several months.  I hope they continue with policy until things are really back to normal. 

[BermudaBound2014]

18 hours ago, bonvoyagie said:

I see where both HAL and Princess are looking at doing land portions of their cruisetours as a way to keep their lodges open. The industry still has to get around the CDC requirements - which at this time is more restictive than the Canada port closure and the PVSA.

 

This ^..... the CDC requirements must change first. Without that, a PVSA waiver means little, if anything. 

[ziggyuk]

59 minutes ago, All-ready2cruise said:

Right. This, while there hasn't been much discussion about it, has been the policy for the last several months.  I hope they continue with policy until things are really back to normal. 

 

It has just been extended today according to another site:

 

We are also pleased to announce the extension of our 60-Day Final Payment Policy for all sailings with embarkation dates through October 31, 2021 (for new and existing reservations). This postpones final payment and cancellation penalties from the standard 120 days to 60 days prior to sailing. Final payment dates will be live by Wednesday, February 10, 2021.

[mianmike]

9 hours ago, SouthLyonCruiser said:

I would certainly like to see the portion of the law that states that passengers must get off. If I am wrong I woul like to see more than a general statement.

 

I agree, I've done quite a bit of searching/reading the applicable laws, regulations and Federal Register and I can find no law or reference that requires that passengers must disembark at the visited foreign port for it to be a valid stop.  I would feel better if someone could provide the regulation or code rather than word of mouth.  Anyone?  

[sfaaa]

.........

Edited February 9, 2021 by sfaaa

[Aquahound]

10 hours ago, SouthLyonCruiser said:

I would certainly like to see the portion of the law that states that passengers must get off. If I am wrong I woul like to see more than a general statement.

 

In the past, technical stops were permitted, but it was determined by CBP that short stops that were not part of legitimate objective of the cruise were not legal, and that they were intended to evade the PVSA.  

 

Here you go.  It's a long and informative read.  The key line in the conclusion summary says: (3) The passengers are permitted to go ashore temporarily at the foreign port.

 

E7-22788.pdf (govinfo.gov)

[mianmike]

16 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

In the past, technical stops were permitted, but it was determined by CBP that short stops that were not part of legitimate objective of the cruise were not legal, and that they were intended to evade the PVSA.  

 

Here you go.  It's a long and informative read.  The key line in the conclusion summary says: (3) The passengers are permitted to go ashore temporarily at the foreign port.

 

E7-22788.pdf (govinfo.gov)

This, at least to me, reads that this CBP’s Proposed Interpretive Rule was not enacted given that Hawaii cruises generally do not stop for 48 hours at Ensenada (generally 4 hours), nor are the Ensenada stops more than 50 percent of the total amount of time at the U.S. ports of call. 

 

From the F.R.:  "CBP will presume that a stop at a foreign port is not a legitimate object of the cruise unless: (1) The stop lasts at least 48 hours at the foreign port; (2) The amount of time at the foreign port is more than 50 percent of the total amount of time at the U.S. ports of call; and (3) The passengers are permitted to go ashore temporarily at the foreign port. Accordingly, CBP proposes to adopt an interpretive rule under which it will presume that any cruise itinerary that does not include a foreign port call that satisfies each of these three criteria constitutes coastwise transportation of passengers in violation of 19 CFR 4.80a(b)(1).

 

Thanks for the info as this has helped me pursue further avenues.  I want to find something definitive.   

[dmdiver]

Our May 2021 cruise is already paid for by the credit from the May 2020 cruise being cancelled.  So now I'm wondering what happens if this one is cancelled - another credit or can I just get a refund of my original cruise.  I suppose if they started sailing in the Caribbean I could just book a Caribbean cruise to satisfy my cruising itch.  I so miss being on a ship at sea.

 

I sure feel for those in Alaska who make their living off of tourism.  Hopefully people on land vacations there will help, but I can't even imagine how much they are losing by not having the ships come in.

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, mianmike said:

 

Thanks for the info as this has helped me pursue further avenues.  I want to find something definitive.   

 

Yeah, it's a lot easier to find laws than it is to find subsequent interpretations of the law.  I do know that CBP determined technical stops, similar to cruises to nowhere, to be illegal.  However, finding that exact interpretation in CBP's writings can be difficult.

 

One thing to remember is, the PVSA and CBP regulate coastwise trade.  If passengers cannot disembark, there is no trade.  

Edited February 9, 2021 by Aquahound

[farmersfight]

1 hour ago, Aquahound said:

 

In the past, technical stops were permitted, but it was determined by CBP that short stops that were not part of legitimate objective of the cruise were not legal, and that they were intended to evade the PVSA.  

 

Here you go.  It's a long and informative read.  The key line in the conclusion summary says: (3) The passengers are permitted to go ashore temporarily at the foreign port.

 

E7-22788.pdf (govinfo.gov)

 

Thanks for posting this. I searched but couldn't find anything but I thought I had heard that "technical stops" (where passengers are not allowed ashore) in near by foreign ports were no longer allowed.

 

Reading this regulation, one thing stuck out to me;

 

"CBP will presume that a stop at a foreign port is not a legitimate object of the cruise unless: (1) The stop lasts at least 48 hours at the foreign port"

 

Since when do foreign port calls last at least 48 hrs, even on normal cruises? Usually, they are what, around 8 or so hours? Call me confusion...

[farmersfight]

1 hour ago, mianmike said:

his, at least to me, reads that this CBP’s Proposed Interpretive Rule was not enacted given that Hawaii cruises generally do not stop for 48 hours at Ensenada (generally 4 hours), nor are the Ensenada stops more than 50 percent of the total amount of time at the U.S. ports of call. 

 

I posted above before I read this. So, this rule was just proposed and never enacted. Is there another rule or regulation that states that passengers must be allowed off the ship in the nearby foreign port (since this wording was part of the above rule that was never enacted)?

[All-ready2cruise]

1 hour ago, dmdiver said:

Our May 2021 cruise is already paid for by the credit from the May 2020 cruise being cancelled.  So now I'm wondering what happens if this one is cancelled - another credit or can I just get a refund of my original cruise.  I suppose if they started sailing in the Caribbean I could just book a Caribbean cruise to satisfy my cruising itch.  I so miss being on a ship at sea.

 

I sure feel for those in Alaska who make their living off of tourism.  Hopefully people on land vacations there will help, but I can't even imagine how much they are losing by not having the ships come in.

Once you agreed to accept the FCC, you will not be reimbursed in any other form of payment. If your next cruise gets cancelled, you'll receive your FCCs back.  They've extended the time line for booking with FCCs so you'll have until Dec. 31 2021; previously, as you likely know, you only had until June 30'21 to book and sail prior to Dec. 31'22

[RiotAct]

On 2/5/2021 at 7:10 AM, Minoushka said:

But Covid is not under control yet ...ifpeople get sick where will they go .Can hospitals take in a great influxof pax who get the disease 

What about natives and exposure to virus ?they are very vulnerable 

covid needs to be tamed a lot more before anyone can travel 

ifyou can get vaccines to Canada quickly ....do so and Alaska .Yukon .

i too would like borders opened but only if very safe

 

 

spoiler alert: it will never be “very safe”.

 

 There will always be instances of bad outcomes somewhere in North America (or the world in general) to point to and say “see?  Could happen here unless we keep these restrictions in place ad infinitum”.

[mianmike]

6 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Yeah, it's a lot easier to find laws than it is to find subsequent interpretations of the law.  I do know that CBP determined technical stops, similar to cruises to nowhere, to be illegal.  However, finding that exact interpretation in CBP's writings can be difficult.

 

That's what makes no sense to me.  It shouldn't be so hard to find CBP's interpretation of the PVSA that would require passengers to disembark at a foreign port.  Given that Customs has the authority to promulgate regulations (19 C.F.R.) and to enforce laws (like the PVSA) and 19 C.F.R. regulations are searchable it makes no sense this mysterious regulation is not easily found with a simple C.F.R. search.  Customs can't just make up hidden regulations.   If it's legit, and not just armchair attorneys' interpretation of the PVSA, it's out there for all to see.  Somewhere.   

[tallnthensome]

17 hours ago, jetact said:

Now that is just wrong. I have an Alaska cruise booked in October and would hate for them to wait until after the final payment and then cancel when they knew all along they were not going to sail.  I really dont want them holding $13,000.00 of my money that they wont refund in cash. 

I’d be cancelling as fast as my fingers could dial the phone. No way I would let NCL hold that amount or any amount of money of mine right now. 

[LaCal]

Royal stated they will be announcing This Friday what is happening with the Alaska cruise season....they have been trying to get a work around like NCL has to still be able to go 

 

So if they cancel the season we can rest assured NCL, Carnival etc will be as well 

[Laszlo]

On 2/9/2021 at 7:30 AM, andychris said:

I wonder when NCL will officially cancel cruises to Alaska.  We have one booked and final payement is in April.  Will hate to pay and get a credit.  

I would run for the hills, no way in heck I would make a final payment on Anything "Sailing" this year.