Canada Locks Down to Feb 28 2022

[Daniel A]

41 minutes ago, billf0401 said:

Yes, as of this morning cruises from NYC/Montreal are listed as for sale....this is a bad look for Oceania...we are booked on the 10/31/21 Montreal/Miami cruise...It certainly will be cancelled but is for sale today.

It may be that the cruise lines are 'keeping their powder dry' and hoping that diplomacy will convince Canada to reassess the ban.  Many US officials are up in arms over this move and believe that the ban is a tactic to affect US jobs and economic health in Alaska and Washington because of the pipeline shutdown and its effect on Canada's economy.  There may be a compromise in there somewhere that could permit limited resumption when certain conditions are met.  One can only hope at this point.

[d9704011]

15 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

It may be that the cruise lines are 'keeping their powder dry' and hoping that diplomacy will convince Canada to reassess the ban.  Many US officials are up in arms over this move and believe that the ban is a tactic to affect US jobs and economic health in Alaska and Washington because of the pipeline shutdown and its effect on Canada's economy.  There may be a compromise in there somewhere that could permit limited resumption when certain conditions are met.  One can only hope at this point.

Not hope, fantasy.

[LHT28]

32 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

It may be that the cruise lines are 'keeping their powder dry' and hoping that diplomacy will convince Canada to reassess the ban.  Many US officials are up in arms over this move and believe that the ban is a tactic to affect US jobs and economic health in Alaska and Washington because of the pipeline shutdown and its effect on Canada's economy.  There may be a compromise in there somewhere that could permit limited resumption when certain conditions are met.  One can only hope at this point.

Or  maybe because  we will not have enough vaccines  

most people will not be done  until fall 

They do not want cruise ships bring in the virus  just like many other Countries  are  blocking cruise ships from docking

JMO

 

[ORV]

1 hour ago, billf0401 said:

Yes, as of this morning cruises from NYC/Montreal are listed as for sale....this is a bad look for Oceania...we are booked on the 10/31/21 Montreal/Miami cruise...It certainly will be cancelled but is for sale today.

This is really nothing new, they've been doing this for months. Just one of the reasons why I will book nothing until they are back operating on a regular schedule. 

[susiesan]

Australia has become one of the first countries to announce no one can go there without being vaccinated.

https://viewfromthewing.com/australia-says-theyll-require-covid-19-vaccination-for-entry-when-borders-re-open/

 

What countries are next? At the rate vaccines are being given globally, most of the world will have to stay home for years.

[pinotlover]

28 minutes ago, susiesan said:

Australia has become one of the first countries to announce no one can go there without being vaccinated.

https://viewfromthewing.com/australia-says-theyll-require-covid-19-vaccination-for-entry-when-borders-re-open/

 

What countries are next? At the rate vaccines are being given globally, most of the world will have to stay home for years.

“ Most” of the world already stays at home. The number of cruisers or travelers make up a small percentage of the world. 
 

I believe most of the cruisers, ( excluding children) that want to cruise, will be vaccinated by 4th quarter this year. 
 

This announcement is actually GREAT News. It means that if you are now vaccinated, you can visit Australia. Hey , Oceania cruisers, that circumnavigational cruise around Australia should now be a go, if you get your vaccinations. The quicker that Europe adopts this the better for cruisers. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by pinotlover

[susiesan]

7 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

“ Most” of the world already stays at home.

This works out well for those of us traveling now, hotels, tours, restaurants are empty. Lots of deals to be had. I frequently try to take a vacation at a time or to a place that no one else is going to. Even before being vaccinated I wasn't afraid to travel.

[Aloha 1]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:36 AM, njhorseman said:

Tell that to a person who has a severe case of COVID and needs to be transported to an ICU immediately.

There's this new fangled invention called a helicopter, I'm told.

[njhorseman]

50 minutes ago, Aloha 1 said:

There's this new fangled invention called a helicopter, I'm told.

And what if there's a large outbreak on the ship with multiple persons needing an ICU and neither a fleet of helicopters nor a sufficient number of ICU beds are available?

 

[RJB]

On 2/6/2021 at 5:57 PM, GICNJC said:

The decision by the Canadian Government decision to prohibit cruise ships with over 100 individuals was based on Covid science and a political retaliation decision by President Biden stopping the Keystone Pipeline from proceeding after the Canadian Government invested heavily into it.

Good for the Canadian Government.   Need to protect jobs. 

[Paulchili]

4 hours ago, pinotlover said:

This announcement is actually GREAT News. It means that if you are now vaccinated, you can visit Australia. Hey , Oceania cruisers, that circumnavigational cruise around Australia should now be a go, if you get your vaccinations. The quicker that Europe adopts this the better for cruisers. 

The only problem with this policy is that vaccinated people are protecting themselves (from serious case of COVID) but not necessarily the people of the country they are visiting.

As we know, they can be asymptomatic carriers spreading the virus. Better policy would be testing them for presence of virus.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Paulchili

[pinotlover]

4 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

The only problem with this policy is that vaccinated people are protecting themselves (from serious case of COVID) but not the people of the country they are visiting.

As we know, they can be asymptomatic carriers spreading the virus. Better policy would be testing them for presence of virus.

Actually we don’t know this! Long article on the subject. No trials have yet to be ran to see if a vaccinated person, with antigens, can transmit the disease. No such study nor evidence exists either way. The article said such a trial would probably take 3-4 years to perform and would have to be done under strict protocols.

 

Per that article, the first early indication will come from the rate of decline of infected people. 
 

Currently no one has proof either way.

[Paulchili]

1 minute ago, pinotlover said:

Actually we don’t know this! Long article on the subject. No trials have yet to be ran to see if a vaccinated person, with antigens, can transmit the disease. No such study nor evidence exists either way. The article said such a trial would probably take 3-4 years to perform and would have to be done under strict protocols.

 

Per that article, the first early indication will come from the rate of decline of infected people. 
 

Currently no one has proof either way.

I most definitely remember reading that a fully vaccinated person became COVID positive again.As to how common this is nobody knows at this point. Time will tell

From BBC:

Scientists already know that the antibodies people develop after natural infections with Covid-19 don't always prevent them from being reinfected. One study of British healthcare workers found that 17% of those who had antibodies already when the study began – presumably from a first infection – caught it a second time. Around 66% of these cases were asymptomatic, but it's thought that you don't need to have symptoms to be at risk of passing the virus on to others. 

"For a virus like this, I almost think that's asking too much of a vaccine," says Altmann. "It's really, really hard to do."

Happily, this isn't quite the end of the story.

There are some early hints that certain vaccines might be able to reduce transmission, even if they can’t eliminate it entirely. One way it might do this is by reducing the number of viral particles in people’s bodies. "It is quite likely that if the vaccines are making people less ill, they are producing less virus, and therefore will be less infectious, but that's just a theory," says Neal.  

[pinotlover]

I agree, they don’t know. Then it becomes a case of statistical significance. Can it happen? Maybe, but what’s significant transmission? 1 in a million, 1 in 100,000 cases, less? What lengths do you go through if it’s a 1 in a 100,000 chance? Currently they don’t know what those chances are. I don’t believe they’ll keep the world locked down until those 3 year trials are ran to have an answer.

[hamrag]

9 hours ago, Daniel A said:

It may be that the cruise lines are 'keeping their powder dry' and hoping that diplomacy will convince Canada to reassess the ban.  Many US officials are up in arms over this move and believe that the ban is a tactic to affect US jobs and economic health in Alaska and Washington because of the pipeline shutdown and its effect on Canada's economy.  There may be a compromise in there somewhere that could permit limited resumption when certain conditions are met.  One can only hope at this point.

 

You believe that Canada will reassess because 'US officials are up in arms etc.'....Why would they?....Hope on!

[Daniel A]

9 hours ago, d9704011 said:

Not hope, fantasy.

How sad it must be to live without hope...

[Daniel A]

41 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

You believe that Canada will reassess because 'US officials are up in arms etc.'....Why would they?....Hope on!

You misunderstand me.  If the US officials are up in arms, they are likely to put pressure on the current US administration to soften their position on the pipeline or some other concession.  It's called diplomacy and nobody expects foreigners to be worried what some US senators and congressmen think, they expect the US Government to worry about that.  

[d9704011]

34 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

How sad it must be to live without hope...

I’m always hopeful and, at heart, an optimist.  Thinking that diplomacy is going to change this specific decision, that was taken to protect the health of Canadian citizens, is misplaced hope.  From a cruising perspective, it’s US law that is the root problem of the possible cancellation pf the Alaska cruise season; from the Canadian perspective cruises from Seattle to Alaska would be OK.

[Daniel A]

9 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

I’m always hopeful and, at heart, an optimist.  Thinking that diplomacy is going to change this specific decision, that was taken to protect the health of Canadian citizens, is misplaced hope.  From a cruising perspective, it’s US law that is the root problem of the possible cancellation pf the Alaska cruise season; from the Canadian perspective cruises from Seattle to Alaska would be OK.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but even if the PVSA was waived, the transit from Seattle to Alaska traverses the inside passage, much of which is in the now forbidden Canadian waters.  I fail to see how prohibiting ferry service from Alaska to the lower 48 without a stop in Canada protects the health of Canadian citizens.  This new policy potentially isolates one of our states from the lower 48 and you really want us to believe this was solely a health related decision?  I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.  All that I am suggesting is that the two nations might sit down together and come up with a workable solution. If one cannot hope for good diplomacy between neighbors and allies, then the world has really gone down the toilet, and you're right - then there is no longer any hope.

[d9704011]

3 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but even if the PVSA was waived, the transit from Seattle to Alaska traverses the inside passage, much of which is in the now forbidden Canadian waters.  I fail to see how prohibiting ferry service from Alaska to the lower 48 without a stop in Canada protects the health of Canadian citizens.  This new policy potentially isolates one of our states from the lower 48 and you really want us to believe this was solely a health related decision?  I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.  All that I am suggesting is that the two nations might sit down together and come up with a workable solution. If one cannot hope for good diplomacy between neighbors and allies, then the world has really gone down the toilet, and you're right - then there is no longer any hope.

The last Interim Order (Number 4) contained a host of exceptions that address most of your ‘concerns’.  I expect that Interim Order Number 5 will look pretty much exactly the same with a couple of date changes and the name of the new Minister of Transport. 

 

Yup, health related all the way. and if the COVID-19 situation in Canada and around the world changes sufficiently over the next few months, I’m confident the Minister will re-evaluate the need for the Order.  If you want to construct some sort of a political shenanigans tit for tat scenario then go for it.  You know, this is a not a binary world; just because I don’t believe this particular issue is one that has a diplomatic solution, doesn’t mean I don’t believe in diplomacy, neighbourliness, and strategic alliances.  

[Daniel A]

12 hours ago, billf0401 said:

Yes, as of this morning cruises from NYC/Montreal are listed as for sale....this is a bad look for Oceania...we are booked on the 10/31/21 Montreal/Miami cruise...It certainly will be cancelled but is for sale today.

According to Travel Weekly:  

"Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings said that it has not canceled its cruises that visit Canadian ports while it reviews the order and works through 'all available options.'

 

"We are currently exploring several initiatives that may allow such cruises to continue, especially for the important Alaska season," a company spokesperson said. "Given the fluidity of the current environment, we will also continue to work with the Canadian government to amend their current suspension. We are working through all available options as quickly as possible and as a result we have not canceled our 2021 cruises that visit Canadian ports. We will continue to keep all travel partners and guests updated as the situation progresses."

 

Cruise lines on Canada ban: We're not giving up on Alaska yet: Travel Weekly

 

 

[mexicobob]

On 2/5/2021 at 3:51 PM, clo said:

We did an Alaska cruise some years ago and I'll agree with you. If we ever return it will be a land trip along with the Alaska State Ferry.

Best to start making reservations early. Very limited capacity for everything in Alaska.

[LHT28]

I do not see Canada opening anytime soon

 Here in Ontario  we have a couple of the new  Variant   that someone brought in from a visit to Brazil

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-public-health-variants-brazil-south-africa-1.5904959

It is fast spreading

We do not even have vaccines done for the  regular covid virus

 I am usually optimistic about things  but sadly after a year in basic lock down I am not seeing  a light at the end of the tunnel yet

[freedom750]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 you really want us to believe this was solely a health related decision?  I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.  

Sounds like the making of another Conspiracy Theory.  If enough people keep saying the same thing - it is true even though there is no proof.  

[hamrag]

9 hours ago, Daniel A said:

You misunderstand me.  If the US officials are up in arms, they are likely to put pressure on the current US administration to soften their position on the pipeline or some other concession.  It's called diplomacy and nobody expects foreigners to be worried what some US senators and congressmen think, they expect the US Government to worry about that.  

I understood you fully....COVID-19 trumps (no pun) diplomacy in every case!