Canada Locks Down to Feb 28 2022

[PaulMCO]

I just saw a post from Holland America that they are waiting the it out before cancelling. 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/news/2021-press-releases1/news-02042021-AlaskaCanadaRestrictions.html

 

I wonder if working with US authorities means trying get a PVSA waiver.  CCL/HAL is bigtime invested in Alaska!

[njhorseman]

20 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

I just saw a post from Holland America that they are waiting the it out before cancelling. 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/news/2021-press-releases1/news-02042021-AlaskaCanadaRestrictions.html

 

I wonder if working with US authorities means trying get a PVSA waiver.  CCL/HAL is bigtime invested in Alaska!

The law only permits a PVSA waiver for national security reasons.

 

The cruise US-based industry chose to live by a business model of incorporating in foreign countries and using foreign flags of convenience in order to avoid paying federal income taxes on their profits and not being subject to US labor laws for the overwhelming majority of their employees...the shipboard crew.  Don't expect a lot of sympathy from either the non-cruising public or the legislative and executive branches of government just because that business model is no longer viable. Remember that President Trump had a long business and personal relationship with Carnival Corp. board chairman Micky Arison yet even under that administration nothing was done to assist the cruise lines. Don't expect anything now.

[jagoffee]

8 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

The law only permits a PVSA waiver for national security reasons.

 

The cruise US-based industry chose to live by a business model of incorporating in foreign countries and using foreign flags of convenience in order to avoid paying federal income taxes on their profits and not being subject to US labor laws for the overwhelming majority of their employees...the shipboard crew.  Don't expect a lot of sympathy from either the non-cruising public or the legislative and executive branches of government just because that business model is no longer viable. Remember that President Trump had a long business and personal relationship with Carnival Corp. board chairman Micky Arison yet even under that administration nothing was done to assist the cruise lines. Don't expect anything now.

How long do you think that it would take to built a cruise ship in the US to meet the PVSA?  I would think that would be the first step.  Does not seem like the cruise companies have much choice.

[pinotlover]

The issue is fairly straightforward. I remember skiing in Vail and Summit County when it was rope tolls and 2 seater lifts. No quads and no gondolas. It takes years for infrastructure to be built out and paid for.

 

First time to Cancun, we went to C. I. The tour bus taking us was an old school bus with no air conditioning and still had the bench seats. We made one stop each way at an old bar that had one one holer for all to share. It takes time and money to build infrastructure.

 

I recently received an email from a tour company I was planning on using in Chile. They’ve lost everything. No money to make payment on the vans and buses. Out of business. I’ve read of hotels in Bordeaux going under and shutting down. The tourism infrastructure is being cratered. These companies won’t just suddenly reappear when cruising restarts. It will take years, in many 3rd world countries, for it to approach 2019 levels. It’s not just 3rd world, locally many of are better restaurants are now permanently closed. They couldn’t survive on 33-50% Max occupancy. 
 

People without jobs, without income, without long term hope are far more scared of losing everything they’ve worked hard to earn than of the Covid virus. A lot of threaders here can’t grasp that. Perhaps when old 70 era school buses show up at the dock to take them on their O shorex they’ll grasp the issue. But maybe not., probably take an 8,000 Dow for them the grasp what’s happening.

Edited February 5, 2021 by pinotlover

[PaulMCO]

40 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

The law only permits a PVSA waiver for national security reasons.

 

The cruise US-based industry chose to live by a business model of incorporating in foreign countries and using foreign flags of convenience in order to avoid paying federal income taxes on their profits and not being subject to US labor laws for the overwhelming majority of their employees...the shipboard crew.  Don't expect a lot of sympathy from either the non-cruising public or the legislative and executive branches of government just because that business model is no longer viable. Remember that President Trump had a long business and personal relationship with Carnival Corp. board chairman Micky Arison yet even under that administration nothing was done to assist the cruise lines. Don't expect anything now.

I know cruises are dead for Alaska.  I just hope the cruise lines do not keep stringing passengers along past final payment. Obvious HAL does not (at least publicly).  No statement yet from NCL/O.

Stock market both CCL and NCL are up this morning.

[Shawnino]

An absolute disaster for the Halifax economy. 

Probably not unexpected given the feds' absolute ineptitude at procuring vaccines.

[LHT28]

6 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

An absolute disaster for the Halifax economy. 

Probably not unexpected given the feds' absolute ineptitude at procuring vaccines.

Or the drug companies inept at filling the orders as contracted

https://globalnews.ca/news/7619692/canada-covid-vaccine-moderna-shipments/

 

PFizer  also cut their deliveries  to Canada

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, jagoffee said:

How long do you think that it would take to built a cruise ship in the US to meet the PVSA?  I would think that would be the first step.  Does not seem like the cruise companies have much choice.

A couple of years at best. But do we even have the ability to do it ? It's been years since a large cruise ship was built in the US. Even if we can do it, how many can be built at a time? Not many I suspect. For that matter can the cruise lines afford a US-built ship? Probably not. Right now they're not building anything that wasn't already in progress because they need to preserve every penny of cash on hand in order to have any hope of surviving.

Bottom line...US-built ships are a non-starter right now.

[Shawnino]

2 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Or the drug companies inept at filling the orders as contracted

https://globalnews.ca/news/7619692/canada-covid-vaccine-moderna-shipments/

 

We elected a substitute junior high school drama teacher as our Dear Leader. What could go wrong?

 

He splashed out billions on vaccines with seven different companies in case one hit (good!) but without contractually requiring they be delivered (erm--vaccines don't help people, actual vaccinations do).

What he essentially did was contract with seven fire departments to put out our fire in case our house catches fire--and they  they have to promise to turn up within a couple years. Lot of good that does. Better to have done a deal with one fire department with a contractual obligation to come put out the fire ASAP.

We voted for him, joke's on us.

[Tranquility Base]

11 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I have no problem with Canada shutting down its tourist economy for as long as it wants. I do have a problem with shutting down the intra coastal seaway, even if ships aren’t stopping in Canada.

Before this Canadian decision, what month did you expect the Alaskan cruise season to start this year ?

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, Shawnino said:

 

We elected a substitute junior high school drama teacher as our Dear Leader. What could go wrong?

 

 

So it was YOU who voted him in again 😲

You would have thought  those that voted for him the 1st time round would have learned their lesson  LOL

 

That is  another story though

[LHT28]

32 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

Before this Canadian decision, what month did you expect the Alaskan cruise season to start this year ?

The  CDC is  not helping the cruise industry to restart  either

I did not think Alaska cruise would  get  approval  with the current situation

JMO

[pinotlover]

45 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

Before this Canadian decision, what month did you expect the Alaskan cruise season to start this year ?

I didn’t expect an Alaskan cruise season in 2021. Said that several times. Always thought the Fall Foliage season was highly iffy. Didn’t expect the Canadians from blocking ships traversing their waters, but not docking or making landfall. 

[Tranquility Base]

20 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

I didn’t expect an Alaskan cruise season in 2021.

So, in practical terms this Canadian decision probably had no effect on the 2021 Alaskan cruise season ?

 

 

[susiesan]

I took an Alaskan cruise with Princess in June 2019, Anchorage to Vancouver,  combined with 8 days driving around Alaska on our own before the cruise. We had a lot more fun on the land portion of that trip. If you want to visit Alaska fly there, rent a car, or take the train, and put together a land cruise. You will have a lot of fun.

[Shawnino]

39 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

So, in practical terms this Canadian decision probably had no effect on the 2021 Alaskan cruise season ?

 

 

 

Not sure.

I'm guessing they could re-jig schedules by a day or two so that all the ships leaving for AK leave from and return to Seattle.

From a logistics point of view though, I wonder what the benefit was to having X-percent of them starting/ending in Vancouver. It must have brought some value or Vancouver wouldn't have been in the game to start?

[Tranquility Base]

22 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

 

Not sure.

I'm guessing they could re-jig schedules by a day or two so that all the ships leaving for AK leave from and return to Seattle.

From a logistics point of view though, I wonder what the benefit was to having X-percent of them starting/ending in Vancouver. It must have brought some value or Vancouver wouldn't have been in the game to start?

See post # 28.

[Aloha 1]

I get that Canada wants to eliminate risk from having cruise ships dock at Canadian ports, but banning sailing past Canada?? Do they think the virus will just waft off the ships into the air and make a beeline for the Canadian mainland?? Are there any intelligent people left in Ottawa?

[clo]

3 hours ago, susiesan said:

I took an Alaskan cruise with Princess in June 2019, Anchorage to Vancouver,  combined with 8 days driving around Alaska on our own before the cruise. We had a lot more fun on the land portion of that trip. If you want to visit Alaska fly there, rent a car, or take the train, and put together a land cruise. You will have a lot of fun.

We did an Alaska cruise some years ago and I'll agree with you. If we ever return it will be a land trip along with the Alaska State Ferry.

[Redtravel]

No control international waters.  Unfortunately the inside passage that most ships sail when going to Alaska is in Canadian waters.  Cruises could sail the outside passage.  I did it once.  It was very rough.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Aloha 1 said:

I get that Canada wants to eliminate risk from having cruise ships dock at Canadian ports, but banning sailing past Canada?? Do they think the virus will just waft off the ships into the air and make a beeline for the Canadian mainland?? Are there any intelligent people left in Ottawa?

If a cruise ship sailing in Canadian waters has a COVID-19 outbreak on board those passengers would have to be evacuated to Canadian medical facilities, which may not have the capacity to treat those patients. That's why the ships are not just banned from Canadian ports but are also banned from Canadian waters.

 

By the way the same holds true in the US. If a ship doesn't meet the CDC requirements it's not allowed in US waters. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by njhorseman

[Tranquility Base]

1 hour ago, Aloha 1 said:

I get that Canada wants to eliminate risk from having cruise ships dock at Canadian ports, but banning sailing past Canada??

I'm not sure but I'm assuming the ban is the 12 mile territorial limit.

So no restrictions from Canadian authorities outside 12 miles.

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, Aloha 1 said:

I get that Canada wants to eliminate risk from having cruise ships dock at Canadian ports, but banning sailing past Canada?? Do they think the virus will just waft off the ships into the air and make a beeline for the Canadian mainland?? Are there any intelligent people left in Ottawa?

What Canadian waters are you talking about ?

As mentioned they can sail in International water  past Canada  but depends where they are headed  I guess

 Since  no ships are sailing  from the USA  yet it is  a moot point

Let's not forget the PVSA  just throw that into the itinerary

[Daniel A]

2 hours ago, LHT28 said:

What Canadian waters are you talking about ?

As mentioned they can sail in International water  past Canada  but depends where they are headed  I guess

 Since  no ships are sailing  from the USA  yet it is  a moot point

Let's not forget the PVSA  just throw that into the itinerary

If a line really wants to sail to Alaska and they are willing, couldn't they do a cruise to Ensenada out of San Diego and then continue up the US coast to Alaska staying in international waters off the Canadian coast and then return to San Diego?  (That would all be conditioned on getting the CDC to rescind their 7 day max requirement)  I wonder where the science is that documents a 7 day cruise is safer than a 14 day cruise under certain conditions...

[clo]

28 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

If a line really wants to sail to Alaska and they are willing, couldn't they do a cruise to Ensenada out of San Diego and then continue up the US coast to Alaska staying in international waters off the Canadian coast and then return to San Diego?  (That would all be conditioned on getting the CDC to rescind their 7 day max requirement)  I wonder where the science is that documents a 7 day cruise is safer than a 14 day cruise under certain conditions...

Sailing almost the entire length of North America in order to see Alaska seems rather...well, silly perhaps. Why not just wait til 2022 or 2023?