Who feels safer on a Ship than on a Plane ??

[dv70]

To answer the OP's question directly: 'Who feels safer on a Ship than on a Plane?', I suppose I do - 'feel safer on a ship than a plane' for the reasons stated previously - ability to find your own space, avoid others if uncomfortable, go outside.. etc.

 

That said, I have been traveling for work regularly by air throughout the pandemic, which I will define somewhat arbitrarily as starting March 1, 2020 in the US. Since that date, I have flown 15 round trips, on 50 individual flight segments. Many cross country (3+hours) - so we'll estimate ~100 hours IN a plane in the last 10-11 months. Plus, of course time in airport terminals, rental cars, hotels, etc. To be fair, these flights were exclusively on Delta - which has been doing an exceptional job in terms of aircraft cleaning, limiting capacity, blocking seats, enforcing masks, reorganizing the boarding process etc. Other airlines have not been so careful... I have not contracted Covid - nor have any of my colleagues. I have been tested multiple times (both PCR and antibody) out of caution (and curiosity). 

 

I'm not suggesting any definitive conclusion be drawn from this. I'm simply passing along my experience as a data point. In my opinion (keyword: opinion - again, I'm not an expert, this is simply my experience / observation) air travel (caveat: on Delta) is not particularly risky as long as normal precautions are taken (masks, etc.). Given the inherent space available to individuals on a cruise ship over the space on an airplane, I would imagine cruise ships to be FAR LESS likely to promote the spread of Covid than a plane - and I've been on a plane a LOT without incident.

 

So I guess: Plane = not bad, Ship = VERY not bad?

 

[JupiterTwo]

My neighbor is a pilot for a major airline, and he tells me that the reason planes are safe are:

 

1. Hospital grade filters in the air circulators.

2. Everyone facing in the same direction and staying in their seats.

 

He cites the low infection rate of pilots and flight attendants as evidence.

 

He says the difference is that everyone is mingling and touching things on ships, while everyone is sitting in one place and not breathing into everyone else's face on a plane.

Edited February 8, 2021 by JupiterTwo

[broberts]

2 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

If fake doctors can get a job on a cruise ship -- some cruise lines aren't really checking credentials which is quite alarming.  

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/fake-cruise-ship-doctor-sentenced-to-three-years

 

Post pandemic physician requirements will be more stringent:

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/cruise-ship-doctors-will-have-a-tougher-job-than-ever-once-cruising-restarts

 

Do you think that there are no instances of unlicensed people practicing on land? That there are no justified malpractice suits?

[twangster]

Canadian couple think their COVID infection occurred on the plane to Florida.

 

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/provincial/nova-scotia-snowbirds-face-large-medical-bill-after-contracting-covid-19-in-florida-545262/

 

• After they arrived, Mailman said, they weren't feeling well, but they chalked it up to a combination of their jet lag and existing health issues.
• “When we fly, we're sick for the first week or so here,” she said. “We didn't realize we were as sick as we were.”

Arguably it could have been the airport, or the taxi, or any of the related things you when you fly but you have to do those things to fly so it's a moot point.  It's hard to fly without spending time in an airport.  

 

Stroke of bad luck as their insurance timing didn't kick in until January so after hospitalizations and ventilators in Florida they are facing hundreds of thousands of uninsured healthcare costs.

 

However because the flight is only a few hours everyone points the finger at something else.  "They must have been infected before they left". That's how airlines escape the blame but at the end of the day, they are responsible for spreading the virus even if the infection doesn't occur on the plane.  

 

55 minutes ago, JupiterTwo said:

He says the difference is that everyone is mingling and touching things on ships, while everyone is sitting in one place and not breathing into everyone else's face on a plane.

 

It's been proven that the virus is predominantly an airborne threat.  Surface contamination is not known to be how spread occurs.  

 

On a ship I'm not in another person's face.  On a plane I'm strapped in sharing the air with the person beside me just 18" away.  

 

 

[livingonthebeach]

2 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Do you think that there are no instances of unlicensed people practicing on land? That there are no justified malpractice suits?

Of course there are.  I was referring to medical emergencies - on a ship you have no choice in where to go and which doctor treats you. The difference is that on land you can research credentials and facilities and make informed decisions and in emergencies, the ambulance is not going to take you to a fake facility with a fake doctor.  

[broberts]

12 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Of course there are.  I was referring to medical emergencies - on a ship you have no choice in where to go and which doctor treats you. The difference is that on land you can research credentials and facilities and make informed decisions and in emergencies, the ambulance is not going to take you to a fake facility with a fake doctor.  

 

So you believe there are no fake doctors, nurses, or medical technicians in er? Or is it that ambulance personnel have done the necessary research?

 

But this is really irrelevant. The point I was trying to make is that regardless of location one can always find an exception. Heck, there is even a case of someone without a pilot license engaged as a commercial pilot.

 

14 minutes ago, twangster said:

• After they arrived, Mailman said, they weren't feeling well, but they chalked it up to a combination of their jet lag and existing health issues.
• “When we fly, we're sick for the first week or so here,” she said. “We didn't realize we were as sick as we were.”

Arguably it could have been the airport, or the taxi, or any of the related things you when you fly but you have to do those things to fly so it's a moot point.  It's hard to fly without spending time in an airport. 

 

Given the timeline it strikes me as unlikely the couple contracted covid on their flight. They were not feeling well when they arrived, suggesting infection at least 3-4 days before the journey.

[A&L_Ont]

6 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

A year later and we a still comparing apples to oranges.  People are at risk in everyday life. The only difference is on land you have access to health care.   

This ⬆️

Until cruises start to set sail from North America we can’t even speculate which of the two is healthier. 

[A&L_Ont]

3 minutes ago, broberts said:

Given the timeline it strikes me as unlikely the couple contracted covid on their flight. They were not feeling well when they arrived, suggesting infection at least 3-4 days before the journey.

You beat me to it.  The average I have heard is 5 days, but for sure it was not on the flight down. 

[twangster]

9 minutes ago, broberts said:

Given the timeline it strikes me as unlikely the couple contracted covid on their flight. They were not feeling well when they arrived, suggesting infection at least 3-4 days before the journey.

 

Exactly.  So you have infected people on a plane for 3 hours sitting right next to other people, for 3 hours.  

 

I've never been on a plane and felt my hair blowing in the wind on board.  They might change the air over every 3 to 6 minutes but I refuse to accept there is a low chance of infection if the person in my row sharing my air for 3 hours is infected. 

 

Everyone gets off and now the other victims have no idea where they got it.  Probably that store they went to the day before their trip, or the restaurant, or the taxi, etc.

 

[livingonthebeach]

2 hours ago, broberts said:

So you believe there are no fake doctors, nurses, or medical technicians in er? Or is it that ambulance personnel have done the necessary research?

 

But this is really irrelevant. The point I was trying to make is that regardless of location one can always find an exception. Heck, there is even a case of someone without a pilot license engaged as a commercial pilot.

 

I would hope that in the ER and trauma centers of my city the medical personnel would be properly vetted.  I think the other doctors, nurses and techs could easily spot a fake colleague if one ever fell through the vetting cracks.  On a ship, there is usually only one doctor and one nurse -- quite a different scenario and easier to pull off as a fake than in large hospitals.   

 

There are certainly non-credentialed people everywhere but if you're stuck on a ship there are no choices but to accept whoever the doctor is at the time.  Let's hope that all ship captains have licenses as well.  

 

I agree this is totally irrelevant so I'm not sure why you asked me the question.

[HBE4]

 

So my choice is between being stuck on a plane for 4 hours with 150+ potentially infected passengers all wearing masks?

 

Or being stuck on a ship for 7 days with 3,000 potentially infected passengers + 1,500 potentially infected crew members with potentially part-time mask wearing?

 

I'm not going to book a cruise to spend all my time on the balcony of my cabin trying to avoid everyone on the ship so I pick plane. I like my chances better.

[boscobeans]

16 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

So my choice is between being stuck on a plane for 4 hours with 150+ potentially infected passengers all wearing masks?

 

Or being stuck on a ship for 7 days with 3,000 potentially infected passengers + 1,500 potentially infected crew members with potentially part-time mask wearing?

 

I'm not going to book a cruise to spend all my time on the balcony of my cabin trying to avoid everyone on the ship so I pick plane. I like my chances better.

From last March to the present we have been in contact with a world of tens of thousands of potentially infected, part time mask wearing people just going about our EVERYDAY LIVES.

 

I hope with a more and more people being immunized at more than a million per day we will eventually exit this dark tunnel into the light.. 

[HBE4]

4 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

From last March to the present we have been in contact with a world of tens of thousands of potentially infected, part time mask wearing people just going about our EVERYDAY LIVES.

 

I hope with a more and more people being immunized at more than a million per day we will eventually exit this dark tunnel into the light.. 

 

I don't disagree with you. I'm cautious but not afraid.  Given the choice, I feel safer on a plane for now.  Numbers are in my favor.  Plus, the reasons others have given  - being stuck in the middle of the ocean, etc. 

[JupiterTwo]

8 hours ago, twangster said:

 

 

 

It's been proven that the virus is predominantly an airborne threat.  Surface contamination is not known to be how spread occurs.  

 

On a ship I'm not in another person's face.  On a plane I'm strapped in sharing the air with the person beside me just 18" away.  

 

 

 

I'm not going to dispute your own observations. I just stated what my pilot neighbor told me.

 

He said that when everyone is seated and facing the same way, they are breathing mostly into the seatback in front of them and not into the airspace that someone else will soon walk through.

 

I suppose the air vents above the seats helps to dissipate the air, too.

 

Surface contamination may not be a known spreader now, but I do recall the early days when we were told to wear latex gloves when going to the grocery store. Even now, my local grocery store is wiping down shopping carts between uses.

[Etta1213]

14 hours ago, ace2542 said:

You do have no chance if you fall really ill on a flight. On a cruise ship the doctor is there in a couple of minutes. On a flight they have to make an emergency landing somewhere. Look at Carrie Fisher to pick on a name. Would she have lived if she had been on a cruise ship?

I think she died five days after the flight, in a LA hospital.

[ReneeFLL]

12 hours ago, JupiterTwo said:

My neighbor is a pilot for a major airline, and he tells me that the reason planes are safe are:

 

1. Hospital grade filters in the air circulators.

2. Everyone facing in the same direction and staying in their seats.

 

He cites the low infection rate of pilots and flight attendants as evidence.

 

He says the difference is that everyone is mingling and touching things on ships, while everyone is sitting in one place and not breathing into everyone else's face on a plane.

I don’t know the reality of the infection rates of pilots and flight attendants because I don’t even think those numbers exist. I’m guessing that if pilots have a lower infection rate it would be because cockpits don’t have recirculated air. They are continually getting fresh air. Why your friend lumps the flight attendants in with the pilots is beyond me. They are in the same cabin with the passengers and are breathing the same recirculated air.  Yes the air is filtered, but not every bit of air gets filtered without some of it invading someone else’s space. This info applies to the 787s on AA and I’m guessing it would also apply to other airlines and airplanes. I know this because DH is a pilot on those planes.

 

[ReneeFLL]

16 hours ago, grapau27 said:

Personally we would rather be on a ship.

Seen too many pictures of packed planes in the UK.

Unfortunately the only major US carrier that blocks seats is Delta. Unfortunately the others do not. ☹️
 

11 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

This ⬆️

Until cruises start to set sail from North America we can’t even speculate which of the two is healthier. 

Totally agree. I’m forced into not cruising, but I also won’t get on a plane right now either. 
 

[twangster]

CDC is considering a COVID test as a requirement to fly domestically.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2021/01/27/covid-testing-domestic-flights-cdc-says-possible-covid-travel/4278714001/

[broadwaybaby123]

Ship only because you can at least go outside on a ship (like out on the promenade, lido, etc.).  You can't go outside on a plane! 

[Iamcruzin]

13 minutes ago, broadwaybaby123 said:

Ship only because you can at least go outside on a ship (like out on the promenade, lido, etc.).  You can't go outside on a plane! 

If outside is so safe why are they requiring masks be worn while on deck? Personally I would be fine not wearing a mask sitting in a lounge chair while being socially distant. However, the cruise line feels otherwise. 

[twangster]

37 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

If outside is so safe why are they requiring masks be worn while on deck? Personally I would be fine not wearing a mask sitting in a lounge chair while being socially distant. However, the cruise line feels otherwise. 

 

Royal hasn't published a mask policy requiring masks outdoors.

[Iamcruzin]

5 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Royal hasn't published a mask policy requiring masks outdoors.

No but it was discussed on that video that one of the crew members posted.  I don't see any reason for them as long as you are stationary. It's no different than going to the beach at home.

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Iamcruzin said:

It's no different than going to the beach at home.

 

Don't give the CDC any ideas.  

[Iamcruzin]

Just now, twangster said:

 

Don't give the CDC any ideas.  

New York state was pretty strict this summer but even Cuomo allowed you to sit on the beach socially distanced without wearing a mask. You only needed to wear it if you were using the restroom or at the concession stand and walking to and from your car.

[JupiterTwo]

On 2/9/2021 at 1:33 AM, ReneeFLL said:

I don’t know the reality of the infection rates of pilots and flight attendants because I don’t even think those numbers exist. I’m guessing that if pilots have a lower infection rate it would be because cockpits don’t have recirculated air. They are continually getting fresh air. Why your friend lumps the flight attendants in with the pilots is beyond me. They are in the same cabin with the passengers and are breathing the same recirculated air.  Yes the air is filtered, but not every bit of air gets filtered without some of it invading someone else’s space. This info applies to the 787s on AA and I’m guessing it would also apply to other airlines and airplanes. I know this because DH is a pilot on those planes.

 

 

My neighbor flies 737s, and he says the cockpit doesn't have its own air supply. They breathe the same air as everyone else.

 

His point is still that everyone is essentially stationary and facing in the same direction for the whole time, unless they're getting up to use the restroom.