Who feels safer on a Ship than on a Plane ??

[smokeybandit]

The only medical issue I ever witnessed was actually last year on Liberty. A woman fell and hit her head very hard. Some good Samaritans tended to her until RC staff got there. Once medical personnel got there, they just kind of stood there with no idea what to do while passengers who were an EMT and pharmacist actually helped the woman.

 

 

[grapau27]

Personally we would rather be on a ship.

Seen too many pictures of packed planes in the UK.

[reallyitsmema]

14 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I've been on a few transatlantic cruises where passengers who had heart attacks died due to lack of facilities, namely an ER and cardiac surgeons.  

 

The doctors and nurses onboard cruise ships can handle minor medical issues - not a massive heart attack. 

 

The medical facilities on the cruise ships are very well equipped.  There are at least two posters on Cruise Critic who have had loved ones who suffered heart attacks on board a ship and were saved by the medical staff on board.  The people you say who died on your TA might not have been saved if they had a heart attack at home too.  

 

I have had to go to medical on multiple ships and was very impressed by the care I received.  

[Iamcruzin]

24 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

Typical BEFORE COVID passenger space is 45 square feet per passenger.

Let's look at a 50% capacity cruise which would be 90 square feet per passenger.

 

90 Square feet is equal to your own room measuring 9 foot by 10 foot. 

How does that stack up to the space in a plane at 50% capacity. And two toilets per plane vs one or more for every 2 passengers?  

With all of the rules and precautions I have been reading about, cruising appears to have stricter rules than a land vacation, which is why I won't cruise until this is over. Handling an outbreak is the main issue. If the largest hospitals in first world nations were struggling with capacity control how do you think a cruise ship with limited resources will be able to handle it.  

[livingonthebeach]

Just now, reallyitsmema said:

 

The medical facilities on the cruise ships are very well equipped.  There are at least two posters on Cruise Critic who have had loved ones who suffered heart attacks on board a ship and were saved by the medical staff on board.  The people you say who died on your TA might not have been saved if they had a heart attack at home too.  

 

I have had to go to medical on multiple ships and was very impressed by the care I received.  

 

Sure there are people who have been saved onboard ships, however, the facilities and medical personnel are eons away from land ER trauma facilities.  If I had to choose, I would not want to have a major medical incident on a ship -- I would rather be on a plane that could land safely in minutes.  That is my opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours. 

[broberts]

A lot of ill informed opinions here. Even more silly arguments.

 

Best way to avoid COVID-19 is to not fly, not cruise, and generally minimize trips outside the home, always masked.

 

CDC and WHO guidance is based on data analysis and even when scrupulously followed is no guarantee of disease prevention. However, ignoring the guidance in favor of one's own opinions will certainly result in a very much higher chance of infection.

 

That one does not believe air travel is safer than cruising does not change the fact that it is.

 

 

[livingonthebeach]

I will add that it depends on the circumstances.  No method is absolutely safer than another.  It all depends on many factors.  I would much rather be on a 3 night cruise on an Oasis class ship in a suite with large balcony than packed liked sardines on a plane of any length. 

 

The OP asked for opinions and I have given mine.  This is not a scientific question based on NIH, WHO CDC or AMA guidelines and procedures and should be taken with a grain of salt, IMHO. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by livingonthebeach

[reallyitsmema]

4 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Sure there are people who have been saved onboard ships, however, the facilities and medical personnel are eons away from land ER trauma facilities.  If I had to choose, I would not want to have a major medical incident on a ship -- I would rather be on a plane that could land safely in minutes.  That is my opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours. 

 

Go visit the trauma room on a ship someday.  Of course what is available at a land ER trauma facility will exceed what is on a ship but what is on the ship far surpasses what is on an airplane.  Not all planes can land in minutes, anyone having a medical emergency on a ship will be in the medical center far before a plane can divert, land and be met by emergency personnel.  

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, livingonthebeach said:

I will add that it depends on the circumstances.  No method is absolutely safer than another.  It all depends on many factors.  I would much rather be on a 3 night cruise on an Oasis class ship in a suite with large balcony packed liked sardines on a plane of any length.  I would rather be on a short flight with 50% capacity than on a 14 night packed TA or TP cruise. 

 

The OP asked for opinions and I have given mine.  This is not a scientific question based on NIH, WHO CDC or AMA guidelines and procedures and should be taken with a grain of salt, IMHO. 

 

Edited to add TA or TP cruise. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by livingonthebeach

[The Fun Researcher]

The only time we’ve flown since Covid was the week after Christmas (round trip direct to Florida on United). Both flights were completely full.  It was the most unnerving part of the trip.  Yes there is good air filtration but when someone right next to you coughs or sneezes it still makes you cringe.  Fortunately none of the seven in our party got sick, and our condo stay on Clearwater beach was great.  Enjoyed the Florida weather, great take out dinners, beautiful beach.

 

I’m not sure I would feel any better on a cruise ship though.

 

Dan

[smokeybandit]

Air travel is no more or less safe than cruising. And air travel is very safe.

 

Concerns of cruising go back to Diamond Princess, which actually turned out to be a wonderful case study for how it spreads.

 

20% tested positive, and 50% of them had no symptoms. This was when testing was in its infancy so who knows how many of those positive were false positives.

 

Only 20%, with zero mitigation. No social distancing, no enhanced HEPA filters, no treatments, no vaccines, no pre-existing antibodies, nothing.

 

There's no way it'd be anywhere near that bad this time around.

 

 

 

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

Go visit the trauma room on a ship someday.  Of course what is available at a land ER trauma facility will exceed what is on a ship but what is on the ship far surpasses what is on an airplane.  Not all planes can land in minutes, anyone having a medical emergency on a ship will be in the medical center far before a plane can divert, land and be met by emergency personnel.  

 

I'll give you that much -- but again it all depends on the situation as I mentioned previously.  A ship hours away from any port is not a situation I would like to be in.  I would prefer to be on a plane and again that's my opinion.  

[cruiselvr04]

I’ve flown once since in the last year.  At that time the middle seat was being kept open on Southwest. I felt safe as we wore masks and shields and did not remove them to eat or drink.  ( We did use a wrapped straw from home once.). With the middle seat now filled I wouldn’t feel as comfortable.  It just increases numbers as well as sitting to close to others.  
 

On a ship there is no way to be in a protected environment all the time.  You not eat all your meals outside away from others with your mask off.  You will use elevators on the big ships.  You may not be in tight quarters for periods of time as long as a flight but you will be exposed to far more numbers of different people over a period of time.  Some people will not be as compliant when they are not under constant close observation in a setting as a plane.  Although you can use hand sanitizer frequently there will be times you forget.  For a short period of time you can be especially vigilant. And then there is the alcohol and “ I’m on vacation” attitude. While I love the sea I wouldn’t want to feel like I need to stay in my cabin or balcony to feel safe.  
 

We have been in public very little over the last year because I am now at risk after a cancer diagnosis. When we do, we know it’s up to us to protect ourselves from others because too many people do not respect the 6 ft rule or don’t wear a mask or wear it improperly. Sadly we’ve found it’s easier to just stay home.  

 

There are no easy answers and everyone will need to do in the future what is right for them. But don’t be fooled that one is safer then the other.  We all have to decide what risks we are willing to take. With the death rate at less then 1% I’m not as worried about dying as I am concerned with the other lingering health issues after covid. I say this respectfully as I know some of you may have lost relatives and friends.  

[boscobeans]

7 minutes ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

Go visit the trauma room on a ship someday.  Of course what is available at a land ER trauma facility will exceed what is on a ship but what is on the ship far surpasses what is on an airplane.  Not all planes can land in minutes, anyone having a medical emergency on a ship will be in the medical center far before a plane can divert, land and be met by emergency personnel.  

Well said.  As for me... I would prefer to have a heart attack while on a tour of the Mayo Clinic.

 

MY answer to the actual question asked by this post........ YES, I WOULD FEEL SAFER ON A SHIP...

[grandgeezer]

Since this is a cruise lovers website, I'm surprised by the number of people who had negative comments about them. I vote airlines by a mile. Normally you spend a whole lot less time on a plane than a ship. And more important, if there is a medical emergency half way across the Atlantic, you are a couple of hours away from help in a plane versus several days in on a ship, that could be the difference between life and death

Keep in mind, there are probably millions of more people in the air every day compared to on ships, especially when/if they ever start sailing.

[yogimax]

At this moment in time, do I feel safe on...

 

1.  A ship - No

2.  A plane - No

3.  At home - Yes 

 

 

[boscobeans]

25 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Since this is a cruise lovers website, I'm surprised by the number of people who had negative comments about them.

Keep in mind, there are probably millions of more people in the air every day compared to on ships, especially when/if they ever start sailing.

In this country' there are NO cruises or passengers. 

Of the tens of thousands of airline passengers is there no word on their Covid infections ""

Ask the following when taking a flight, a cruise or for that matter just going to the supermarket.. Some if not all may apply.. 

Who sat in the cab or bus before me?
Did the driver touch my luggage?
Did the person at the rest stop sanitize before preparing my snack or beverage?
Was my change sanitized?
Did the person walking 6 feet in front of me wear one or two masks or NONE?
In the cab was the driver wearing a mask or was he or she isolated from us?
Did the airline clerk touch my luggage?
Did the TSA person touch my luggage?
Did they sanitize the seats in the departure lounge?
Is the boarding system paperless?
Did they sanitize the boarding tunnel?
Did they sanitize all the seats?

Is there a cardiac surgeon and an OR within a short time away?
Did they sanitize the bathrooms before and after each user?
Is everyone wearing their mask properly and at all times?
NO SNACKS OR BEVERAGES FOR SAFETY REASONS.
Was the departure tunnel and lounge sanitized?
Was the luggage crew properly masked and sanitized?
Was the luggage carousel sanitized?

 

WHATEVER...

All I hope for is that within a few months those wishing to be immunized are able to get immunized and if so cruise lines can use all the  combined knowledge available so they can begin cruising and allowing the tens of thousands of people in this country who depend on the industry to return to work.. 

[badvector]

It's a matter of optics.  Air travel has graduated from a service that only the rich could afford to an essential service that contributes billions if not trillions of dollars to the world's economies.  Those aircraft don't just carry passengers.  By many, they are looked at no differently than making a trip to the grocery store. You are in close proximity for a limited amount of time and then you are on your way.  Cruising is still a lifestyle and not a necessity.  You are stuck on board a vessel with other people for days on end with no short term opportunity to remove yourself from that environment.   

 

A better comparison would be to Walt Disney World or Universal.  Again however, you have the issue of optics.  People don't react the same to a super spreader event on land as they do to one on a ship.  It is also the mentality that you are trapped at sea with no way to escape.  Years of press coverage over the spread of Noroviruses as well as the original spread of Covid on ships has cemented in this fear.  

 

I'm pretty sure the CEO's of the cruise companies would love to be sailing.  I also would suspect that they are aware that they are viewed differently than other travel industries regarding the spread of disease and are being much more cautious in their approach to resuming.  These folks have a difficult short term vs long term decision to make and I don't envy their position at all.

 

I don't disagree that any one is safer than the other.  These variants are reaching other countries somehow and we can be pretty sure they're not from cruise ships.  

 

 

 

 

[boscobeans]

4 minutes ago, badvector said:

These folks have a difficult short term vs long term decision to make and I don't envy their position at all.

 

 

 

 

 

+1

[boscobeans]

1 hour ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

Go visit the trauma room on a ship someday.  Of course what is available at a land ER trauma facility will exceed what is on a ship but what is on the ship far surpasses what is on an airplane.  Not all planes can land in minutes, anyone having a medical emergency on a ship will be in the medical center far before a plane can divert, land and be met by emergency personnel.  

The requirements to work as a doctor on a cruise ship include a professional degree, relevant post-graduation experience and an unrestricted medical license.

Please consult the details below:

• MBChB, MBBCh (or equivalent) Medical degree
• Current, unrestricted license to practice medicine with at least three years post-graduation experience
• Majority of experience in one or more of the following areas: Emergency Medicine, Family Medicine, Critical / Intensive Care, Cardiology, Anesthetics, Remote Medicine. Additional qualifications such as Diploma in Primary Emergency Care, Diploma in Anesthetics or FCEM are preferred
• Additional skills such as Ultrasound are advisable and certificates such as Advanced Trauma and Pediatric Life Support are also required by some cruise lines

In addition, applicants for cruise line physician jobs MUST have:

• Fluency in English – Must be able to communicate and work as a medical professional in English
• At least 3 years post-graduate experience in Adult Emergency medicine or family practice. Work experience must be recent
• Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS) certification and Basic Life Support (BLS). Some companies also require ATLS and PALS
• Good computer skills – Windows based software
• Ability to meet the challenge of learning to work as a Doctor in a new and different environment

[twangster]

I feel safer on a ship simply because I have my own space I can go to whenever I want to.  If a crowd at a bar is too big I can go find another bar with better spacing available.  I have some control, I can walk away and find space in many areas with my cabin being a last resort safe haven always available.

 

On a plane I am at the mercy of luck.  If someone behind me, in front of me, besides me even one seat over has the virus then it is simply a matter of how lucky I am on that day.  I have very little control.  I can't walk away and there is no last resort safe haven where I am safe on a plane.  

 

Airplanes are spreading the virus like many venues on land are.  Airplane time is measured in hours so while we don't know the exact flight number where the virus was transported, we do know planes are spreading the virus.  The inability to document exactly what plane was involved with spreading the virus does not make planes safe.  

 

All that being said, the virus is brought onto a ship or a plane from the same source - the community.  Until community numbers show lower risk, I won't be going on a plane or a ship.

[livingonthebeach]

If fake doctors can get a job on a cruise ship -- some cruise lines aren't really checking credentials which is quite alarming.  

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/fake-cruise-ship-doctor-sentenced-to-three-years

 

Post pandemic physician requirements will be more stringent:

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/cruise-ship-doctors-will-have-a-tougher-job-than-ever-once-cruising-restarts

Edited February 8, 2021 by livingonthebeach

[boscobeans]

2 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

If fake doctors can get a job on a cruise ship -- some cruise lines aren't really checking credentials which is quite alarming.  

 

THE MARITIME EXECUTIVE 08-08-2016 09:16:08

 

A nurse who fraudulently identified himself as a doctor and found employment on an Aida cruise ship has been sentenced to more than three years in prison for "the deprivation of liberty associated with anesthesia, fraud, forgery and abuse of title."

 

After this one I am sure they might be a little more careful  ?

 

Are YOU aware of any more recent occurrences?

[livingonthebeach]

8 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

 

THE MARITIME EXECUTIVE 08-08-2016 09:16:08

 

A nurse who fraudulently identified himself as a doctor and found employment on an Aida cruise ship has been sentenced to more than three years in prison for "the deprivation of liberty associated with anesthesia, fraud, forgery and abuse of title."

 

After this one I am sure they might be a little more careful  ?

 

Are YOU aware of any more recent occurrences?

 

If "YOU" go on any Maritime attorney sites, and the court dockets in Miami, you will find many cases of medical malpractice on cruise ships.  While after that incident of a fake doctor, hiring practices have perhaps become more stringent, cases of sub-par doctors abound.  

 

To get back to the OP's question and stay OT, I would not feel safer on a ship if I had a medical emergency.  

Edited February 8, 2021 by livingonthebeach

[boscobeans]

9 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

If "YOU" go on any Maritime attorney sites, and the court dockets in Miami, you will find many cases of medical malpractice on cruise ships.  While after that incident of a fake doctor, hiring practices have perhaps become more stringent, cases of sub-par doctors abound.  

 

To get back to the OP's question and stay OT, I would not feel safer on a ship if I had a medical emergency.  

Thank you for your answer.