vaccine required?

[Daniel A]

29 minutes ago, nocl said:

IF one is on a ship where everyone is fully vaccinated, where everyone was tested at time of boarding, then the odds of encountering an infected person should be low enough to not require masks.  As long as no one leaves the ship. 

 

After any port stop it would depend upon the incidence rate and type variants present at that port, and the type of actions taken to isolate the passengers from the local population.

 

That assumes that there is no vaccine resistant variant present in the source population that the passengers come from.

Thank you.  That has been my point all along.  Stay well.

[Daniel A]

Now, for my next question:  If a cruise ship has an itinerary which only includes one port or one country and during the cruise, the incidence rates at those ports were to rise to a level where it would be unsafe to disembark passengers, would a cruise ship failing to stop at the only foreign ports under those circumstances constitute a 'Force Majeure' and not be violating the PVSA?

 

I'm not referencing instances where a high incidence rate was already known prior to sailing.  I'm looking at what was a safe number when the cruise started but where a sudden, unexpected spike were to occur at the foreign destination.

[memoak]

30 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Now, for my next question:  If a cruise ship has an itinerary which only includes one port or one country and during the cruise, the incidence rates at those ports were to rise to a level where it would be unsafe to disembark passengers, would a cruise ship failing to stop at the only foreign ports under those circumstances constitute a 'Force Majeure' and not be violating the PVSA?

 

I'm not referencing instances where a high incidence rate was already known prior to sailing.  I'm looking at what was a safe number when the cruise started but where a sudden, unexpected spike were to occur at the foreign destination.

I would think that there would. E a good chance that this situation might be considered for a waiver much like weather issues might be

[5MNtravelbugs]

On 3/17/2021 at 10:39 PM, K.T.B. said:

 

Currently there are 3 categories  of vaccines, only 2 in the US though.  The 4 categories are whole virus, protein subunit, viral vector and nucleic acid.  Pfizer and Moderna are the 4th type.  As I said in another thread, the odds of anyone being allergic to all of those is basically the same as winning the lottery while being struck by lightning while getting a hole in one on a par 5 all at the same time.

 

And the US is nowhere near herd immunity.  That would require 70%-90% of the entire population to have either had the virus and/or vaccinated.

Scary. How do you know which part of the vaccine you are allergic to. Also, what about the red cross and needing blood. Do you have to receive blood from donors who've had the same vaccine? Just a thought I'm curious about. Keep track of vaccine date vial number and type received.

[memoak]

36 minutes ago, 5MNtravelbugs said:

Scary. How do you know which part of the vaccine you are allergic to. Also, what about the red cross and needing blood. Do you have to receive blood from donors who've had the same vaccine? Just a thought I'm curious about. Keep track of vaccine date vial number and type received.

I don’t get the blood donor thing.  The Covid shot goes into the muscle area not a vein

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Now, for my next question:  If a cruise ship has an itinerary which only includes one port or one country and during the cruise, the incidence rates at those ports were to rise to a level where it would be unsafe to disembark passengers, would a cruise ship failing to stop at the only foreign ports under those circumstances constitute a 'Force Majeure' and not be violating the PVSA?

 

I'm not referencing instances where a high incidence rate was already known prior to sailing.  I'm looking at what was a safe number when the cruise started but where a sudden, unexpected spike were to occur at the foreign destination.

There were cases, if I recall correctly, that some ships did not let passengers off during the scheduled stop in Ensenada during the outbreak of the flu (don't recall if it was Avian or Swine) in Mexico a few years ago when ships were rerouted.

[5MNtravelbugs]

2 hours ago, memoak said:

I don’t get the blood donor thing.  The Covid shot goes into the muscle area not a vein

I'm talking about a drug interaction between the blood of a person vaccinated with pfizer vs moderns vs Johnson & Johnson as they all are different types of vaccines. Yes, you get a shot into your muscle but the vaccine goes into your blood stream. - it doesn't stay in your muscle. Even Dr couldn't say for sure, so just wondering. 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, nocl said:

There were cases, if I recall correctly, that some ships did not let passengers off during the scheduled stop in Ensenada during the outbreak of the flu (don't recall if it was Avian or Swine) in Mexico a few years ago when ships were rerouted.

I would assume that qualifies as an emergency situation. That is definitely not the same as scheduling Ensenada as just a technical stop to try to get around the PVSA.

Edited March 22, 2021 by ontheweb
fixed second sentence

[nocl]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I would assume that qualifies as an emergency situation. That is definitely not the same as scheduling Ensenada as just a technical stop to try to get around the PVSA.

That is what I expect.  From what I recall you had some ships ending their normal routes (not letting passengers off), before the cruise lines changes Mexican cruises became west coast cruises.

 

 

[dog]

On 3/20/2021 at 1:03 PM, Steelers36 said:

Not sure what you are getting at.  My mind is open and working and I am not the typical sheep just going along with whatever the politicians come up with next.  That doesn't mean I am reckless.  Although some people thought we were crazy to spend two months in South Florida this Winter.  It was safer and more enjoyable there than at home where we are pounded 24/7 about Covid-19 issues. 

 

We had to suffer with the 14-day quarantine Trudeau punishment while, if we had spent a long weekend in Toronto, it would have been much more risky than the two months in Florida and no one would have chased us, phoned us, made us do three tests (all negative) and kept us locked up for two weeks.

 

When we returned to Canada March 17/20, we had to quarantine in our home for 14 days. No resistance here. Friend shopped for us, put groceries on porch. I strongly disagree with the hotel stay for air travellers in place this winter. 
however, those entering the country in February has dropped by over 54 percent ( in the News now). 

our government has asked for our

co-operation in limiting travel to non essential. I have no problem with that request. 

[Steelers36]

3 minutes ago, dog said:

When we returned to Canada March 17/20, we had to quarantine in our home for 14 days. No resistance here. Friend shopped for us, put groceries on porch. I strongly disagree with the hotel stay for air travellers in place this winter. 
however, those entering the country in February has dropped by over 54 percent ( in the News now). 

our government has asked for our

co-operation in limiting travel to non essential. I have no problem with that request. 

Same for us about a week after you last year (by then it was a law/mandatory instead of a request).  The hotels came this year, but we drove home (shipped our SUV to FL in Dec) and so avoided any discussion about a hotel stay.  I never would have gone to a hotel anyway, but did not have to face down anyone over that.  

 

That's fine about the travel for you.  There was no reason for us not to travel to FL and every reason to go.  As you mentioned, it was a request/recommendation as they cannot prevent it, but they can sure dream up ways to make it painful.  As for the drop, well certainly less number of snowbirds headed south this year, but most/many won't be back as yet.  Some are waiting out the forced hotel stay or finding a flight to a border airport and crossing by land/bridge to avoid them.

 

[dog]

3 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Same for us about a week after you last year (by then it was a law/mandatory instead of a request).  The hotels came this year, but we drove home (shipped our SUV to FL in Dec) and so avoided any discussion about a hotel stay.  I never would have gone to a hotel anyway, but did not have to face down anyone over that.  

 

That's fine about the travel for you.  There was no reason for us not to travel to FL and every reason to go.  As you mentioned, it was a request/recommendation as they cannot prevent it, but they can sure dream up ways to make it painful.  As for the drop, well certainly less number of snowbirds headed south this year, but most/many won't be back as yet.  Some are waiting out the forced hotel stay or finding a flight to a border airport and crossing by land/bridge to avoid them.

 

Well, a year from now if we are still in the same situation as we are now with covid cases rising, varients spreading, people resisting vaccinations, mask wearing, non essential travel, , I too will probably become a snow bird and make no excuse for it. 

[Roberto256]

On 3/18/2021 at 10:00 PM, D C said:

If vaccines actually are required to cruise, and the CDC says vaccinated people need not wear masks in the company of each other, then pray tell why masks would possibly be required anywhere on a ship. 

Why would anyone need to convince you?

 

Everyone, including you, will simply have to follow whatever rules the cruiselines put in place.

 

If the cruise line says 'masks required', you will have to wear a mask, or you won't be embarked.

 

While standing on the pier, watching the ship leave, you are welcome to hold any opinion you wish.

[SargassoPirate]

19 hours ago, dog said:

Can’t speak for anyone else. I will wear a mask, get vaccinated when it is my turn, follow recommendations of health professionals and scientists like Dr Fauci so I will feel comfortable in getting in a plane and cruise ship next year. 
I know others won’t do these things, can’t make them. However, if a vaccination and mask are required by airlines, cruise lines , other countries/ ports, I won’t listen to their squawking “that is is not fair, it is their right”..,just no reason to continue on this thread. 

 

Last March, She Who Must be Obeyed and I followed Dr. Fauci's advice when he said on 60 Minutes there was no need for us to wear a mask.  We flew to Australia to begin three weeks on land before boarding the Ruby Princess to sail back to the US.  We ended up stuck in Australia as they closed their internal borders, the cruise was cancelled, and airlines stopped flying.

 

Don't put Dr. Fauci on a pedestal.

[d9704011]

I used to clean paint and grease off my hands with carbon tetrachloride.  It was discovered that that was a very dangerous common practice and most people stopped doing it.

[dog]

1 hour ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

 

Don't put Dr. Fauci on a pedestal.

Never did 

i don’t get your “She who must be obeyed” bit

 

please explain. 
 

as previous poster explained. Things change Science changes . we continue to learn.  

Edited March 22, 2021 by dog

[wowzz]

45 minutes ago, dog said:

don’t get your “She who must be obeyed” bit

You've obviously never read any of the "Rumpole of the Bailey" books!

The phrase refers to your wife

[dog]

14 minutes ago, wowzz said:

You've obviously never read any of the "Rumpole of the Bailey" books!

The phrase refers to your wife

oh! I see now.   My condolences...

[Daniel A]

According to the European Union: "the European Commission is proposing to create a Digital Green Certificate to facilitate safe free movement inside the EU during the COVID-19 pandemic. The Digital Green Certificate will be a proof that a person has been vaccinated against COVID-19, received a negative test result or recovered from COVID-19. It will be available, free of charge, in digital or paper format. "

 

Coronavirus: Commission proposes a Digital Green Certificate (europa.eu)

 

[Ride-The-Waves]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

According to the European Union: "the European Commission is proposing to create a Digital Green Certificate to facilitate safe free movement inside the EU during the COVID-19 pandemic. The Digital Green Certificate will be a proof that a person has been vaccinated against COVID-19, received a negative test result or recovered from COVID-19. It will be available, free of charge, in digital or paper format. "

 

Coronavirus: Commission proposes a Digital Green Certificate (europa.eu)

 

Vice-President for Values and Transparency, Věra Jourová said: “The Digital Green Certificate offers an EU-wide solution to ensure that EU citizens benefit from a harmonised digital tool to support free movement in the EU. This is a good message in support of recovery. Our key objectives are to offer an easy to use, non-discriminatory and secure tool that fully respects data protection. And we continue working towards international convergence with other partners.”

 

Its for EU Citizens.  Its another proposal, one of many, to enable certification of vaccination.  The WHO already has its "Carte Jaune" which does this and has been accepted by all member states essentially since the end of WWII.

[Daniel A]

3 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Vice-President for Values and Transparency, Věra Jourová said: “The Digital Green Certificate offers an EU-wide solution to ensure that EU citizens benefit from a harmonised digital tool to support free movement in the EU. This is a good message in support of recovery. Our key objectives are to offer an easy to use, non-discriminatory and secure tool that fully respects data protection. And we continue working towards international convergence with other partners.”

 

Its for EU Citizens.  Its another proposal, one of many, to enable certification of vaccination.  The WHO already has its "Carte Jaune" which does this and has been accepted by all member states essentially since the end of WWII.

See above part of your post in red.  As far as the 'yellow card' goes - want to buy one?  Go here:

 

International Certificate of Vaccination Prophyaxis as Approved by the World | eBay

 

 

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

See above part of your post in red.  As far as the 'yellow card' goes - want to buy one?  Go here:

 

International Certificate of Vaccination Prophyaxis as Approved by the World | eBay

 

 

I got my most recent version at my local pharmacy when I got my yellow fever immunization.

 

You can also print and assemble your own

 

https://www.who.int/ihr/IVC200_06_26.pdf?ua=1

[D C]

16 hours ago, Daniel A said:

See above part of your post in red.  As far as the 'yellow card' goes - want to buy one?  Go here:

 

International Certificate of Vaccination Prophyaxis as Approved by the World | eBay

 

 

Amazon too, of course.  Though I would expect anyone needing a card to receive one with the original proof of their vaccination.  

[SargassoPirate]

On 3/22/2021 at 9:47 AM, dog said:

oh! I see now.   My condolences...

 

No need for condolences.  She has her very own "She Who Must Be Obeyed" coffee mug signed in person by John Mortimer.  She also has an embroidered pillow that says "Its Nice To Be Queen".

 

Wouldn't trade her for anything. We both pursue our respective bucket lists and it's never a question of either of us "letting" the other do something.

 

Works for us.

[Ride-The-Waves]

While some what to debate the efficacy and validity of the WHO Carte Jaune, it is still today the only recognized international record of vaccination.  Have carried it since 1949 and last used it following a healthy series of boosters prior to travel into Africa for a safari.  During the 1950s is as requested at borders before they would ask for a passport.

 

Its a paper booklet.  Can it be copied?  Sure.  However, most border personnel could probably spot a fake. So if you are interested in faking yourself that you are vaccinated, go ahead and print a fake.  I'll rely on certified stamps from medical centers to record my vaccinations.