Miami-Dade Mayor Sends Letter To CDC In Hopes Of Restarting Cruise Industry

[denamo]

Anybody happen to see this?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/miami-dade-mayor-danielle-levine-cava-sends-letter-to-cdc-in-hopes-of-restarting-cruise-industry/ar-BB1eJS3A?ocid=uxbndlbing&fbclid=IwAR063LeKiawZvxvGpIBklJxsvF2anxfS1Dd5dHt8BElbsw_-fccM2adtWk8

 

Here's the letter: https://miami.cbslocal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15909786/2021/03/Letter-to-CDC-Director.pdf

[soremekun]

Thanks.  Cruises for vaccinated-only passengers is mentioned.  Perhaps that's the short term provision for cruises to restart in the U.S.  Visiting foreign ports is a different story.

 

Excluding visa issues with the CBP, there shouldn't be anything to stop the CDC from allowing a fully vaccinated crew and passenger cruise to nowhere.  

Edited March 19, 2021 by soremekun

[Biker19]

14 minutes ago, soremekun said:

Excluding visa issues with the CBP, there shouldn't be anything to stop the CDC from allowing a fully vaccinated crew and passenger cruise to nowhere.  

Well, there's the general warning to avoid cruises in general, the CSO, and perhaps some other issues on which CDC would have to reverse course.......

[notmyrealnameoremail]

1 hour ago, soremekun said:

Thanks.  Cruises for vaccinated-only passengers is mentioned.  Perhaps that's the short term provision for cruises to restart in the U.S.  Visiting foreign ports is a different story.

 

Excluding visa issues with the CBP, there shouldn't be anything to stop the CDC from allowing a fully vaccinated crew and passenger cruise to nowhere.  

Even if the CDC approved, the  Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 would the major cruise lines from doing cruises to nowhere.

[Roger88]

I really hope and looking forward to it to be resumed as soon as possible. Skipping another holiday summer season will hit them hard. I really want to start planning a cruise this year. 

[soremekun]

3 hours ago, notmyrealnameoremail said:

Even if the CDC approved, the  Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 would the major cruise lines from doing cruises to nowhere.

The PVSA allows cruises to nowhere.  The issue is crew visas.

 

See "Exceptions to the PVSA" section on pages 15-16, fourth bullet item, "Voyages to Nowhere".

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Sep/PVSA-ICP.pdf

 

Explanation by CBP

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/customs-explains-end-of-cruises-to-nowhere.html

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by soremekun

[notmyrealnameoremail]

18 minutes ago, soremekun said:

The PVSA allows cruises to nowhere.  The issue is crew visas.

 

See "Exceptions to the PVSA" section on pages 15-16, fourth bullet item.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Sep/PVSA-ICP.pdf

 

Explanation by CBP

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cruise/customs-explains-end-of-cruises-to-nowhere.html

 

I stand corrected, but I don't see the crew visa issue rules changing anytime soon.

[d9704011]

5 hours ago, soremekun said:

Thanks.  Cruises for vaccinated-only passengers is mentioned.  Perhaps that's the short term provision for cruises to restart in the U.S.  Visiting foreign ports is a different story.

Yes, and that unfortunate business that thousands of vaccinated people may still carry and spread the virus as they travel to/from the port and around the country.  Pretty much the reason the CDC clamped down on cruising to begin with.

[soremekun]

What I don't comprehend is:

If international waters begin 12 nautical miles from the coast, why can't a ship travel beyond that point and it be considered that the ship left the US?  How far do they have to travel to operate the casino onboard?  Well, use that distance and consider it leaving the US and let us have cruises to nowhere.

[d9704011]

4 minutes ago, soremekun said:

What I don't comprehend is:

If international waters begin 12 nautical miles from the coast, why can't a ship travel beyond that point and it be considered that the ship left the US?  How far do they have to travel to operate the casino onboard?  Well, use that distance and consider it leaving the US and let us have cruises to nowhere.

What about the work visa issue?

[time4u2go]

15 minutes ago, soremekun said:

What I don't comprehend is:

If international waters begin 12 nautical miles from the coast, why can't a ship travel beyond that point and it be considered that the ship left the US?  How far do they have to travel to operate the casino onboard?  Well, use that distance and consider it leaving the US and let us have cruises to nowhere.

Leaving the US is not enough to meet the requirement. They have to land in a foreign port. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by time4u2go

[soremekun]

52 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

What about the work visa issue?

 

42 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Leaving the US is not enough to meet the requirement. They have to land in a foreign port. 

There are guidelines from different departments of the government that seem contradictory to me.

 

If the cruise ship travels far enough from the borders of the US, the crew can operate duty free shops and the casino.  But, no matter how far they go, if they don't dock at a foreign port, the ship is considered to not have left the US.  So, if they never left the US, how can they operate duty free shops and the casino?

[smokeybandit]

I'm guessing the CDC conveniently never received that letter

[allisonb22]

7 minutes ago, soremekun said:

So, if they never left the US, how can they operate duty free shops and the casino?

Great point 

[Sunshine3601]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

Leaving the US is not enough to meet the requirement. They have to land in a foreign port. 

What if they did a technical stop at a foreign port where passengers remain onboard?

[sandebeach]

7 hours ago, denamo said:

Anybody happen to see this?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/miami-dade-mayor-danielle-levine-cava-sends-letter-to-cdc-in-hopes-of-restarting-cruise-industry/ar-BB1eJS3A?ocid=uxbndlbing&fbclid=IwAR063LeKiawZvxvGpIBklJxsvF2anxfS1Dd5dHt8BElbsw_-fccM2adtWk8

 

Here's the letter: https://miami.cbslocal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15909786/2021/03/Letter-to-CDC-Director.pdf

Thanks for sharing. Interesting to learn PortMiami is constructing a testing lab site  at the Port. 

[Crazy planning mom]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

Yes, and that unfortunate business that thousands of vaccinated people may still carry and spread the virus as they travel to/from the port and around the country.  Pretty much the reason the CDC clamped down on cruising to begin with.

No, they clamped down on cruises because there was no vaccine and the virus was spreading.  Studies from Israel show that the vaccine reduces transmission of the virus.

[time4u2go]

37 minutes ago, soremekun said:

 

There are guidelines from different departments of the government that seem contradictory to me.

 

If the cruise ship travels far enough from the borders of the US, the crew can operate duty free shops and the casino.  But, no matter how far they go, if they don't dock at a foreign port, the ship is considered to not have left the US.  So, if they never left the US, how can they operate duty free shops and the casino?

We are talking about two different things:  Leaving the US, and docking at a foreign port.  They are not the same thing.

 

If the ship travels 12 miles away, it has left the US, which is sufficient for operating the duty free shops and the casino.  The ship does not have to dock at a foreign port to be considered to have left the US.

 

However...the ship must dock at a foreign port in order to satisfy the worker visa requirements.

Edited March 19, 2021 by time4u2go

[time4u2go]

17 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

What if they did a technical stop at a foreign port where passengers remain onboard?

I could be wrong, but I believe @chengkp75 has explained that this is not allowed.  He is the expert, so I would defer to him.

[soremekun]

8 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

We are talking about two different things:  Leaving the US, and docking at a foreign port.  They are not the same thing.

 

If the ship travels 12 miles away, it has left the US, which is sufficient for operating the duty free shops and the casino.  The ship does not have to dock at a foreign port to be considered to have left the US.

 

However...the ship must dock at a foreign port in order to satisfy the worker visa requirements.

Thanks for your patience.  I was intentionally being technical.

Travelling 12 miles away from land satisfies the requirements of one government department but not the other.

[d9704011]

19 minutes ago, Crazy planning mom said:

No, they clamped down on cruises because there was no vaccine and the virus was spreading.  Studies from Israel show that the vaccine reduces transmission of the virus.

Well, I guess when the US (and North America) gets to the point where the CDC judges the risk to be acceptable then we’ll see.  I don’t know whether there are events going on in Israel that are comparable to loading a few thousand people into airplanes, having them circulate around in port cities, going on ships and spending a few days together visiting goodness knows where and then coming back to the US to ‘share’ their experience.

[ArthurUSCG]

18 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

I could be wrong, but I believe @chengkp75 has explained that this is not allowed.  He is the expert, so I would defer to him.

That is correct. He's much better at explaining the details, but the federal guidance on the law/rule interpenetration does not allow for technical stops. The cruise line industry lawyers agree with the interpretation since they haven't fought it in court.

[notmyrealnameoremail]

10 minutes ago, soremekun said:

Thanks for your patience.  I was intentionally being technical.

Travelling 12 miles away from land satisfies the requirements of one government department but not the other.

Different rules for different things.  In NJ for example, you can drive at 17, play the lottery or bet at the track at 18 but you have to wait until 21 to gamble in a casino or drink alcohol. 

[Crazy planning mom]

13 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Well, I guess when the US (and North America) gets to the point where the CDC judges the risk to be acceptable then we’ll see.  I don’t know whether there are events going on in Israel that are comparable to loading a few thousand people into airplanes, having them circulate around in port cities, going on ships and spending a few days together visiting goodness knows where and then coming back to the US to ‘share’ their experience.

Well, the Israeli government has approved the Odyssey of the Seas to sail beginning in May.

All passengers over 16 must be vaccinated.  In addition, the Quantum of the Seas has been sailing successfully carrying thousands of passengers from Singapore since December.

[ArthurUSCG]

I don't see the CDC updating the guidance until there is results from the RCL Israel 16+ vaccinated cruise. But if CDC approves 100% vaccinated cruise I could see  the cruise lines with the Bahamas to allow docking at private islands as long as they can maintaine a bubble (0 interaction with locals).