Florida sues to reopen cruise ports

[Ken the cruiser]

14 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

You are correct.  I missed the prior part for crew accommodations.

 

I would think that cost would be the factor.  How much did it cost to remove and quarantine the Diamond Princess?  How many tens of millions for a single ship?  Having contracts in place for a mass evacuation requires a big operation and potentially many contracts.

I understand. But you would think they could find some common ground, especially with the amount of vaccines flowing in the US now, on some of those more costly issues to satisfy both parties if they just sat down and discussed them versus going public with their ultimatum. After all, we're only talking about the Phase 2B and 4 start-up cruises?

 

But, that's their call. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.  

Edited April 11, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[nocl]

9 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

You are correct.  I missed the prior part for crew accomodations.

 

I would think that cost would be the factor.  How much did it cost to remove and quarantine the Diamond Princess?  How many tens of millions for a single ship?  Having contracts in place for a mass evacation requires a big operation and potentially many contracts.  The contracts would be contracting to ensure that quarantine quarters were available even though they may not be utilized.

 

 

However the guidance states that the number of such quarters would be based upon anticipated need determined by the cruise line and the port.  

 

If vaccinations and other measures are effective enough for the cruise lines to sail again the numbers would be small.  And the costs also small.

 

Two reasons why the cruiselines might balk at those requirements.

 

1. They are concerned that their measures might not be effective and thus their risk is high

 

2. The normal operating mode for cruiselines has been once a problem is off a ship it is no longer their problem. This would change that mode and makes them responsible even after disembarkation. A precedent they certainly do not want set.

[NMTraveller]

44 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I understand. But you would think they could find some common ground, especially with the amount of vaccines flowing in the US now, on some of those more costly issues to satisfy both parties if they just sat down and discussed them versus going public with their ultimatum. After all, we're only talking about the Phase 2B and 4 start-up cruises?

 

But, that's their call. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.  

I would think that they could find some common ground.  I suspect they have already spoken with the CDC and attempted negotiations.   Their going public is an attempt at gaining public support for the idea as I suspected previous negotiations/talks did not go well in their view.

 

Perhaps a better question might be will the CDC consider the foreign ported cruises as test cruises and allow them to progress on after they are successful.  

 

I would watch CCL Carnival, Princess, HAL, etc and see if they deploy a ship to a foreign home port.

 

 

 

[K.T.B.]

On 4/9/2021 at 6:31 PM, KWW88 said:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6025/

 

Well, Secretary of Transportation has a response to that:

 

https://news.yahoo.com/cruise-ships-could-resume-sailing-by-mid-summer-buttigieg-says-190728426.html

Edited April 11, 2021 by K.T.B.

[Jeremiah1212]

I'm standing by the idea that the big sticking point is not the CSO, it's the long term COVID protocols. Even if the CSO magically goes away as they are requesting, there is no reasonable doubt that COVID surveillance and reporting is now a major focus area on cruise ships. Vaccinations, no vaccinations, masks, no masks. Makes no difference. This is something that is going to be monitored and reported on and the cruise lines are fighting for as little accountability and regulation as possible. People keep throwing around the Nov 1st date like we're going to go back to cruise like it's 2019. That just isn't going to happen.

 

Until there is a long term program put into place to pick up where the CSO leaves off, no one is going anywhere from a US port. 

[4774Papa]

On 4/8/2021 at 1:08 PM, K.T.B. said:

Disagree with this statement:

 

DeSantis said the federal government and the CDC had locked down the cruise industry for over a year and it was not reasonable.

 

It was definitely reasonable.  There was no way a cruise ship could've prevented "super spreader events" until there were vaccines.  HOWEVER, I agree now that people are getting vaccinated they can give an actual date as to when things can open rather than dragging it out.

It may have been reasonable to lock down for a period of time, certainly this past year, but CDC has locked cruises down until November.  Not sure that is reasonable.

[KWW88]

7 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

It may have been reasonable to lock down for a period of time, certainly this past year, but CDC has locked cruises down until November.  Not sure that is reasonable.

I feel as though we need to sit back, let the Europe, Asia and St Maarten sailings move forward with their new protocols and see how it plays out.  The CDC will be paying attention to this, which is a good thing for both the cruise lines and pax.

Edited April 11, 2021 by KWW88

[TeeRick]

Just now, KWW88 said:

I feel as though we need to sit back, let the Europe and Asia sailings move forward with their new protocols and see how it plays out.  The CDC will be paying attention to this, which is a good thing for both the cruise lines and pax.

Yes the CDC will definitely be paying attention.  But what if it goes the other way?  Outbreaks? Will that set cruising from the US back even further?

[hcat]

2 minutes ago, KWW88 said:

I feel as though we need to sit back, let the Europe, Asia and St Maarten sailings move forward with their new protocols and see how it plays out.  The CDC will be paying attention to this, which is a good thing for both the cruise lines and pax.

Agree!

[KWW88]

2 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes the CDC will definitely be paying attention.  But what if it goes the other way?  Outbreaks? Will that set cruising from the US back even further?

I'm rather certain that you already know the answer to your redundant question.

[RiotAct]

On 4/8/2021 at 1:08 PM, Jeremiah1212 said:

They're missing the point. The CDC wants a contingency plan to avoid a Diamond Princess, Celebrity Eclipse, et al situation where they are stuck at sea for weeks and no one would grant entry. Why is this so difficult to provide? DeSantis himself said he didn't want those HAL passengers dumped in his ports. 

 

No one saw COVID coming as aggressively as it did and there's nothing preventing a similar situation from happening again. 

besides, you know, the whole vaccine thing.

[K.T.B.]

39 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

besides, you know, the whole vaccine thing.

 

Along with wearing masks, social distancing, etc.

 

But, yeah, nothing.....

[wrk2cruise]

We also have to remember that Nov 1 is the current expiration date of the CSO.  Nothing saying it won't be modified/extended/replaced with something which lasts longer.

[Ken the cruiser]

5 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Ken you are funny.  You make a lot of good points, insightful comments and ask a lot of good questions.  I hardly think you are in the peanut gallery!😀

LOL!! When you think about the big picture, we're all pretty much in the peanut gallery when it comes to the CDC and the cruise lines coming to their individual agreements to be allowed to sail out of US ports again. But I must say it's fun to speculate as it keeps us all somewhat engaged with the cruising world until we can once again get back out there sailing on the high seas! 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[KWW88]

9 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

LOL!! When you think about the big picture, we're all pretty much in the peanut gallery when it comes to the CDC and the cruise lines coming to their individual agreements to be allowed to sail out of US ports again. But I must say it's fun to speculate as it keeps us all somewhat engaged with the cruising world until we can once again get back out there sailing on the high seas! 

Curious as to why he did not file this suit prior to Jan 20, when there was a different administration and CDC director, who issued the original order?  Can't be because of the vaccine because he has also said he won't allow business to require it.  Hmmmmm, I wonder

[KWW88]

33 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

As a native Floridian, I could not be prouder. We've got a Gubernatorial dweeb suing government agencies to cruise again. And if that isn't intimidating enough he's got the Orangeman and Matt Gaetz standing by for support, just in case. I'm sure the CDC, the HHS and the Biden Administration are shaking in their boots. With folks like that working for the Sunshine State, we might get a row boat, two kayaks, a Sea Doo and a Tramp Steamer ready to go in August. Hey, don't knock it 'til we try it, right? 

He just did not want to be seen as suing the previous administration, with his present goal, looks much better to be suing the current.  Go Speed Racer, GO!

Edited April 11, 2021 by KWW88

[NMTraveller]

56 minutes ago, KWW88 said:

Curious as to why he did not file this suit prior to Jan 20, when there was a different administration and CDC director, who issued the original order?  Can't be because of the vaccine because he has also said he won't allow business to require it.  Hmmmmm, I wonder

One word.  Vaccine.

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, KWW88 said:

Curious as to why he did not file this suit prior to Jan 20, when there was a different administration and CDC director, who issued the original order?  Can't be because of the vaccine because he has also said he won't allow business to require it.  Hmmmmm, I wonder

I'm sure he had his political reasons, but I'm just glad he did what he did. I'm also glad the CLIA earlier asked the CDC to allow sailing from US ports to start back up in July. I'm also glad CDC formally released their Phase 2 Technical Instructions and subsequently suggest cruising out of US ports could start back up by mid summer. And of course we can't overlook the fact that 3.2+ million COVID vaccine doses are being administered daily here in the US with plenty more on the way!

 

From my point of view, the table is now set for the various Big Dogs to come together and figure out a way to get us all back to cruising again, at least maybe out of some Florida ports. We have the CDC, the cruise lines, and some FL government officials all signalling they want cruise ships to start sailing again in July! What more could we ask for, or more importantly, what could go wrong?? 😅

Edited April 11, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[KWW88]

2 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

One word.  Vaccine.

Yes but he has taken proof of vaccine out of the equation

[NMTraveller]

Just now, KWW88 said:

Yes but he has taken proof of vaccine out of the equation

International travel is regulated by the feds and not the states.

[KWW88]

3 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

International travel is regulated by the feds and not the states.

Yes I know, I am referring to the state that he governs

Edited April 11, 2021 by KWW88

[Ride-The-Waves]

43 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

As a native Floridian, I could not be prouder. We've got a Gubernatorial dweeb suing government agencies to cruise again. And if that isn't intimidating enough he's got the Orangeman and Matt Gaetz standing by for support, just in case. I'm sure the CDC, the HHS and the Biden Administration are shaking in their boots. With folks like that working for the Sunshine State, we might get a row boat, two kayaks, a Sea Doo and a Tramp Steamer ready to go in August. Hey, don't knock it 'til we try it, right? 

Sorry - no "tramp steamer."  There are over 200,000 merchant seamen on commercial freighters and tankers who cannot disembark do to COVID-19.  US ports are choked with ships anchored outside harbors waiting to moor and unload/load, all with merchantmen/women who are not vaccinated and cannot get ashore even to fly to another country.  

[Ride-The-Waves]

5 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

 

The document you referenced, Technical Instructions for Mitigation of COVID-19 Among Cruise Ship Crew, covers the following:

 

"This document provides instructions for the initial phases of CDC’s Framework for Conditional Sailing Order for cruise ship operations in U.S. waters to ensure health and safety protections for the crew prior to resuming passenger operations in a way that mitigates the risk of spreading COVID-19."

 

or am I missing something as I was referring in my post to the CDC Technical Instructions Phase 2A preparatory requirement to start Phase 2B test cruise certification:

 

Also, I thought the COVID mitigation issues you referenced regarding the crew had been resolved a while back since all applicable cruise ships have been coded Green for quite sometime. 

 

Cruise Ship Color and Commercial Travel Status | CDC

 

As far as NCL dropping the "shoreside quarantine contracts", my question is why did they do that since the Phase 2A protocols only relate to the simulated or restricted passenger voyages associated with Phases 2B and 4?

 

"This document is intended to assist cruise ship operators in documenting the approval of U.S. port and local health authorities as a condition of receiving or retaining controlled free pratique to conduct one or more simulated voyages or restricted passenger voyages under a COVID-19 Conditional Sailing Certificate. This includes documenting the approval of U.S. port and local health authorities in developing medical care, housing, and port components (including a vaccination component) of an agreement as per the terms of CDC’s Framework for Conditional Sailing Order."

 

Technical Instructions for a Cruise Ship Operator’s Agreement with Port and Local Health Authorities under CDC’s Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

Interestingly, this is a partial list of cruise ships the cruise lines have scheduled to sail into/from US ports.  By their omission presumably the cruise lines have not made the rest of their fleets ready for US passengers and entry into US ports.  What are they waiting on?  Looks very disingenuous on their part.

[Mike981]

2 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

As a native Floridian, I could not be prouder. We've got a Gubernatorial dweeb suing government agencies to cruise again. And if that isn't intimidating enough he's got the Orangeman and Matt Gaetz standing by for support, just in case. I'm sure the CDC, the HHS and the Biden Administration are shaking in their boots. With folks like that working for the Sunshine State, we might get a row boat, two kayaks, a Sea Doo and a Tramp Steamer ready to go in August. Hey, don't knock it 'til we try it, right? 

 

😁

The whole situation is fluid. As others have said, the November date could very well get moved again and possibly more than once. I might be in the minority, but I don't believe there is a conspiracy to keep cruising down. One of the reasons we all love cruising, is the unique experience. That unique experience is also going to make it even harder to have proper Covid procedures that work. From embarkation to debarkation and everything in between.
Finally as hard as it may be to hear, there are more important things we are dealing with right now. We are still losing to many souls and one of the fastest growing infected groups is the younger generation and many of those are going to the hospital. 

[Ken the cruiser]

1 minute ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Interestingly, this is a partial list of cruise ships the cruise lines have scheduled to sail into/from US ports.  By their omission presumably the cruise lines have not made the rest of their fleets ready for US passengers and entry into US ports.  What are they waiting on?  Looks very disingenuous on their part.

I could be wrong, but I thought only those cruise ships currently scheduled to dock at a US post prior to Nov 1st needed to be on the list.

 

All cruise ships operating in U.S. waters, or seeking to operate in U.S. waters, must comply with all of the requirements under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order and Technical Instructions even when outside U.S. waters.