New CDC limitations on cruise ship return to service - as of 5/5/21

[ChutChut]

4 hours ago, Heartgrove said:

 

But until the courts rule otherwise, ...

True.

 

The CDC is not a legislative body. It cannot make law. And I don't believe that Congress has given it the authority to shut any industry down. It issues guidance, etc. I have no idea how the CDC has been able to shut down the cruise industry while allowing 350 sardines trapped in a tin can at 25,000 feet for hours with no social distancing, etc. It's seems arbitrary and capricious and, probably, outside of its authority. But, we'll have to see what the courts decide....

Edited May 6, 2021 by ChutChut

[Laminator]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

You may be right, but with everyone salivating over the CDC's statement that cruises could restart in July, they have missed the part that says this is dependent on the cruise lines meeting the requirements of the CSO, and these are the requirements of the CSO as of this moment.  Everyone has also jumped on the "if vaccinated, no simulated cruises" bandwagon, but this "operations manual" shows that the first cruises, as of this moment, and as to what the cruise lines need to submit plans for, as of this moment, are the same whether you hold simulated cruises or require vaccinations.  So, under your thoughts, the cruise lines can either make plans to meet these requirements, now, and get them approved for starting in July, or they can "wait and see" if things change by then, and then meet the new requirements, and start even later.

My thoughts are that the cruise lines are very happy with the CDC guidelines for now. It takes alot of pressure off of them decision wise. I think their biggest concern would be problems arising from the virus on their cruises. If you have instances with ships like you did at the beginning of the pandemic it would cripple them even more. 

[syesmar]

5 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 

Maybe so, but we are not spending $1000's to get on a cruise that mandates ships tours only, "take out" food in cabins, social distancing of 6 feet(when the CDC announced just a couple of weeks ago that 3 feet was enough) mask wearing in all public places, (indoors, ok...outdoors, not). . . .  

 

The 3 feet of distance was for children in schools, currently unvaccinated, where mask use was universal (and for middle and high schoolers, if community transmission was not high). https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0319-new-evidence-classroom-physical-distance.html

 

The new CDC guidance for fully vaccinated people says

• "You can gather indoors with fully vaccinated people without wearing a mask or staying 6 feet apart."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html

 

They also still recommend avoiding large indoor gatherings, presumably because the vaccination status of everyone would be unknown. However, in a cruise ship setting, those things will be known to operations.

 

I wonder if they will update their guidance for ships that have 100% of people onboard vaccinated (rather than 95% -98%)?

Edited May 6, 2021 by syesmar

[Gracie115]

19 minutes ago, syesmar said:

The 3 feet of distance was for children in schools, currently unvaccinated, where mask use was universal (and for middle and high schoolers, if community transmission was not high). https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0319-new-evidence-classroom-physical-distance.html

 

The new CDC guidance for fully vaccinated people says

• "You can gather indoors with fully vaccinated people without wearing a mask or staying 6 feet apart."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html

 

They also still recommend avoiding large indoor gatherings, presumably because the vaccination status of everyone would be unknown. However, in a cruise ship setting, those things will be known to operations.

 

I wonder if they will update their guidance for ships that have 100% of people onboard vaccinated (rather than 95% -98%)?

The new guidelines state that areas around the pool, most of which are outdoors must have lounges 6 feet apart unless you are part of a family or group travelling together. 

Outdoor lounge seating around the pool will also have a different look, as loungers and chairs will need to be six feet apart, severely limiting outdoor seating space. These items can be grouped together for families and traveling companions, according to the CDC.

 

What happened to it's ok to be outside without a mask if vaccinated?  Wouldn't this all be easier if the CDC actually just said, "vaccinate everyone"  which is pretty what most of the lines say they are going to do anyway, except for young children (right now anyway....)

Edited May 6, 2021 by Gracie115

[albingirl]

6 hours ago, DaveOKC said:

 

Wearing a mask indoors is not a bad idea for another reason - it helps keep other germs away as well.  For the first time in years I have not had a cold this winter!

 

true

[jmkennett]

19 hours ago, ICUQT said:

I think it is about time to let the adults back in the room.  I don't want government making choices for me. To old for that. Just give me the information so I can make an informed decision. The CDC is ruining the cruise industry with these stupid mandates. To much power and control in the hands of a few.

100% agree.  Who would want to go on a cruise with these types of ridiculous restrictions?  The CDC has become a useless joke, and our government obviously has it out for them, and seems hellbent on destroying this industry in the United States.   If I were the cruise lines I would leave for other countries.  Most passengers and crew will be vaccinated, so either the vaccines work (they do) or they do not.  About time people stand up to this nonsense and get on with life.  But of course, we can all fly, stay in hotels, go on trains, go to sporting events, etc., but cruises are demons.  Enough.  

[POA1]

1 hour ago, Gracie115 said:

The new guidelines state that areas around the pool, most of which are outdoors must have lounges 6 feet apart unless you are part of a family or group travelling together.  What happened to it's ok to be outside without a mask if vaccinated?  Wouldn't this all be easier if the CDC actually just said, "vaccinate everyone"  which is pretty what most of the lines say they are going to do anyway, except for young children (right now anyway....)

The guidelines for the test cruises state that you have to be masked up, outside, in the sun on private islands. Bear in mind that test cruisers need to be vaccinated.

 

If they're trying to send the message that vaccines don't work, they're doing an outstanding job.

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, Gracie115 said:

The new guidelines state that areas around the pool, most of which are outdoors must have lounges 6 feet apart unless you are part of a family or group travelling together. 

Outdoor lounge seating around the pool will also have a different look, as loungers and chairs will need to be six feet apart, severely limiting outdoor seating space. These items can be grouped together for families and traveling companions, according to the CDC.

 

What happened to it's ok to be outside without a mask if vaccinated?  Wouldn't this all be easier if the CDC actually just said, "vaccinate everyone"  which is pretty what most of the lines say they are going to do anyway, except for young children (right now anyway....)

This DOESN'T SAY you can't be outside without a mask. This is just encouraging social distancing relative to people not in your bubble. Masking isn't even mentioned in this context.

 

It has been discussed here extensively about CDC requirements for requiring vaccination. There is much concern the CDC can't actually require mandatory vaccination.

[Gracie115]

11 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

This DOESN'T SAY you can't be outside without a mask. This is just encouraging social distancing relative to people not in your bubble. Masking isn't even mentioned in this context.

 

It has been discussed here extensively about CDC requirements for requiring vaccination. There is much concern the CDC can't actually require mandatory vaccination.

 

I stand corrected.  However even Dr. Fauci has said that the chance of transmission outside is extremely low.  So why the 6 feet on an open air deck in the middle of the ocean?  

 

They seem able to require pretty much everything else outside of masks......🤥

[Gracie115]

31 minutes ago, POA1 said:

The guidelines for the test cruises state that you have to be masked up, outside, in the sun on private islands. Bear in mind that test cruisers need to be vaccinated.

 

If they're trying to send the message that vaccines don't work, they're doing an outstanding job.

 

Exactly.....

[MTAK]

There seems to be continued confusion about this.  According to this Business Insider article, these requirements are for cruises that don't require vaccinations:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cruise-cdc-update-masks-pool-buffet-simulated-sailings-2021-5

[CruiserBruce]

34 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

 

I stand corrected.  However even Dr. Fauci has said that the chance of transmission outside is extremely low.  So why the 6 feet on an open air deck in the middle of the ocean?  

 

They seem able to require pretty much everything else outside of masks......🤥

Having been to resorts in Hawaii, where you need a negative Covid test to get on the plane to get there, the standard there is spacing lounge chairs 6 or 8 feet apart at the pool, no mask required when you are on a lounge chair. The last time we were by the pool was April  7....prior to the most recent CDC comments on being outside. Now, I imagine the policy would be no masks outside, per the CDC recommendations. So the cruise recommendations are not really out of line with that.

[chengkp75]

31 minutes ago, MTAK said:

There seems to be continued confusion about this.  According to this Business Insider article, these requirements are for cruises that don't require vaccinations:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cruise-cdc-update-masks-pool-buffet-simulated-sailings-2021-5

That's because they obviously looked at the first document the CDC issued, which was "technical instructions for simulated voyages", and not the second document, issued the same day, "operations manual for simulated and restricted voyages under the CSO".  The second covers not only the simulated cruises, but all cruises with revenue generating passengers onboard, and contain virtually the same requirements for both "simulated" and "restricted" voyages.

[JRG]

18 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The second covers not only the simulated cruises, but all cruises with revenue generating passengers onboard, and contain virtually the same requirements for both "simulated" and "restricted" voyages.

 

So what?

 

What is the impact on us cruisers that it contains virtually the same requirements.

 

 

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I just need to vent....This whole CDC back tracking on what they have previously said and this updating of rules and guidelines for cruise lines is just plain wrong and unfair. 

You can fly in a packed plane anywhere in the continental US not needing a covid test or proof of vaccination, cities such as Las Vegas  where many hotels are now open to 100% capacity for the hotel, gaming and all restaurants. I can tell you after spending the last 5 days with friends that there is NO Social Distancing and proper way of wearing a mask is NOT being enforced,. Let me say it is crowded, it is actually more crowded in many of the casinos than I remember it being 2 or 3 years ago. Shows are opening back up. Just how is a stay at a Las Vegas resort any different than a 7 day cruise??? Plus there is no contact tracing!!!  So let me get this straight CDC, all US residents and those from many other countries can go to resorts in the US, they do not need to test for covid, nor do they need to have proof of vaccination, and yes no need to worry about social distancing.

Listening the Frank Del Rio from NCL and even Gus from HAL I can see why they are all very frustrated. I just feel it is a form of discrimination against the cruise lines and those of us who choosing cruising as our vacation choice. 

OK stepping off my soap box 😷 

[Roz]

18 hours ago, leerathje said:

 

The point is to stop you from getting seriously ill (or dying) from COVID-19.

 

L.

 

 

How am I even going to get Covid if I can't go anywhere or do anything?  If vaccinations don't allow us to resume a somewhat normal life, I still don't understand the push to get everyone vaccinated.

[lstrong]

Roz, your posts are right on point and I totally agree with you. Thank you for speaking out!  Laurie

[Domer81mpc]

5 hours ago, jmkennett said:

100% agree.  Who would want to go on a cruise with these types of ridiculous restrictions?  The CDC has become a useless joke, and our government obviously has it out for them, and seems hellbent on destroying this industry in the United States.   If I were the cruise lines I would leave for other countries.  Most passengers and crew will be vaccinated, so either the vaccines work (they do) or they do not.  About time people stand up to this nonsense and get on with life.  But of course, we can all fly, stay in hotels, go on trains, go to sporting events, etc., but cruises are demons.  Enough.  

Giving nameless, faceless, unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats the power to control a multibillion industry.  What could possibly go wrong!

[Hlitner]

12 hours ago, harkinmr said:

No one should be surprised by any of these protocols.  At least anyone who has been paying attention.  The protocols released yesterday are no different than those being used on cruises already sailing elsewhere in the world.  They are also similar to those that are going to be used on vaccinated sailings from the UK, Greece and Israel, including restricted shore visits.   

According to folks at Seabourn the Greek government is not imposing any restrictions on cruisers going ashore other then they must follow whatever restrictions might be in place in the various localities.   Seabourn has told me that all passengers will be free to go ashore (on Greek cruises) as they please.  So apparently, if other cruise lines mandate using shore excursions in Greece it is a cruise line decision.

 

Hank

[puli]

10 hours ago, Aardvaark said:

Looks like no cruise for us this year.  I'm rather gloomy that the CDC will ease up to the point I find the cruise acceptable.

 

The CDC has this goal of saving every life possible.  Many of us are willing to accept small risks to live as we wish. 

 however .we do not cruise in a goldfish bowl... the risks I might be willing to accept in order to live as I want could very well affect someone else's ability to live . Not sure I am willing to accept that burden.

[nocl]

This is why the documents are written the way they are.

 

They have to be written to cover the widest range of circumstances because they do not know what the cruise lines will propose for their plans.

 

They offered the option to by pass the test cruises if the cruise lines attest that 95% of passengers  and 98% of crew are vaccinated. but since not all cruise lines have attested and such is an option, the rules have to be written for the case where vaccinations are not required by the cruise lines. if the cruise lines actually submitted a plan where they will require the vaccinations then I would expect that in their plan they could probably get approval to relax some of the other conditions. Exactly what would depend upon the entire context of their plan.

[bouhunter]

On 5/5/2021 at 8:19 PM, igraf said:

 

 

 

In this case the government experts are right

 

 

You mean like the CDC Director who a month ago predicted "Impending doom" for the nation?   She wasn't exactly "right".

[kazu]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

According to folks at Seabourn the Greek government is not imposing any restrictions on cruisers going ashore other then they must follow whatever restrictions might be in place in the various localities.   Seabourn has told me that all passengers will be free to go ashore (on Greek cruises) as they please.  So apparently, if other cruise lines mandate using shore excursions in Greece it is a cruise line decision.

 

Hank

 

In his talk yesterday, Gus A stated that passengers would be able to go ashore in Greece.  It’s up to the various countries and ports and they are in discussions with other countries in that regard.

[Aardvaark]

9 hours ago, puli said:

 however .we do not cruise in a goldfish bowl... the risks I might be willing to accept in order to live as I want could very well affect someone else's ability to live . Not sure I am willing to accept that burden.

Just like in driving a car, you could affect others, you're quite right.  

 

But I think the processes put forth by the cruise lines are sufficient to protect others from what small threat vaccinated persons might exhibit. 

 

[Hlitner]

34 minutes ago, Aardvaark said:

Just like in driving a car, you could affect others, you're quite right.  

 

But I think the processes put forth by the cruise lines are sufficient to protect others from what small threat vaccinated persons might exhibit. 

 

In the last year I have heard "follow the science" from many experts, politicians, physicians, etc.  "Follow the Science" has been used to justify shutting down schools, lock downs, closing restaurants, gyms, etc.  So, when it comes to fully vaccinated folks posing a risk to anyone I think it might be appropriate if our own "experts" follow the science."   And where is the science that says fully vaccinated folks are a danger to anyone?   Dr. Walensky (Director of the CDC) said back in March that "fully vaccinated people do not carry the COVID virus."  But for some reason the CDC policies seem to ignore the statements of their own Director.  If one does not carry the virus then why do they need to mask or social distance?  And if vaccinated people do not carry the virus where is the risk of a cruise with 100% vaccinated folks?

Data Suggests Vaccinated Individuals Don’t Carry Virus or Get Sick: CDC – NBC Bay Area

 

Hank