DeSantis nearing compromise on cruise vaccination requirements

[JMKreno]

At the end of the day, politicians will be politicians. I do think the country is HOTLY divided right now but I think a LOT of that is also from the unique situation we've had over the last year. Remember, mask and lockdown politics existed during the 1917 Spanish Flu there just wasn't any social media and 24-hour news coverage to fill the "quarantine time" like there is today. 

 

I DO BELIEVE once things really open up and people REALLY start to go about their lives again (travel, holidays, kids back in school and everyone working), COVID is in the rearview mirror, and the election gets further away, things will calm down and only fringe will be always on edge about this stuff (both sides of the table). Americans have T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E long term memory. Remember 9/11? Remember the Columbia disaster? Remember the 2008 crash? 2003 invasion of Iraq? Dixie Chicks? Most people don't actively even think about these things anymore but some sure were front and center in the psyche of the American public. But, what do I know?

 

Just get me on board a ship with ocean breezes, nice views, and a Guy's Burger....

[coffeebean]

On 6/2/2021 at 9:21 PM, Saint Greg said:

 

 

 

 

On 6/2/2021 at 9:42 PM, Lee Cruiser said:

I was thinking the exact same thing.  Also, if that is considered international waters, then all the shops and the casino could be open.  The notion of it being international waters is nonsense.

DeSantis has to do SOMETHING to save face, but, IMHO, this isn't it.

[coffeebean]

On 6/2/2021 at 10:33 PM, Alegeeter said:

Since Carnival has already put protocols in place for fully vaccinated cruises (Alaska) what if they offer two types of cruises as the industry gets bsck up and running? Some ships that require all passengers be vaccinated and some that do not. This way they offer sailings for all demographics, appealing to those who want to sail only with vaccination while also appealing to families with children and those who do not want/can’t get the vaccine.

Sounds like a solid plan. Just hope those ships that do have un-vaxxed passengers do not have a Covid outbreak and put a black mark on the industry.

[Mallow]

Just make all Florida ports tender.  Use US flagged ferries to shuttle passengers into international waters and load onto the cruise ships after asking for a vaccine proof upon entry.  That would be cheaper than the $5k per passenger fine for asking for them at the port.

[firefly333]

21 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

arrrrghhh, everyone keeps mentioning this but i havent seen or heard any news articles about it?  Can someone please point me to this news?

I saw someone posted the link to you yesterday when you said this.. 

 

Here is a link to the rcl thread which has the link to the news

 

 

[Keys2Heaven]

2 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

I think the people at Carnival must know something to do an interview stating they will start with vaccinated people.

 

That's certainly been hinted at. There was much fanfare regarding the Forbe's article, which the governor's office quickly denounced, but I suspect there is some truth in there that is yet to be revealed.

In the end, the governor can make cruising happen in Florida with the stroke of a pen.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Keys2Heaven

[kdr69]

10 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I saw someone posted the link to you yesterday when you said this.. 

Strange i didnt see it i guess

[Stallion]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

Agree. This business about when people step onto the cruise ship in Florida ports, they are in International waters. We all know that isn't true. Why do we pay Florida tax on alcoholic beverages before we reach the REAL International waters which is 12 miles from the port?

 

This compromise makes DeSantis, his administration and his attorneys look foolish. This all could have been avoided if DeSantis declared an exception for cruise lines in his EO/Law. There are other exceptions to his law such as nursing homes and prisons, why not cruise lines? 

 

True otherwise you wouldn't have to wear a mask at Miami International Airport (or other federal controlled facility). Desantis' mandates are preempted by federal law in these facilities (for the most part). DeSantis has some control in such facilities ex. restaurants, bars and other businesses)

[lobster1313]

20 minutes ago, Mallow said:

Just make all Florida ports tender.  Use US flagged ferries to shuttle passengers into international waters and load onto the cruise ships after asking for a vaccine proof upon entry.  That would be cheaper than the $5k per passenger fine for asking for them at the port.

Logistical nightmare that would never work. Carnival will be allowed to ask for proof of vaccination.

[Stallion]

5 minutes ago, Stallion said:

True otherwise you wouldn't have to wear a mask at Miami International Airport (or other federal controlled facility). Desantis' mandates are preempted by federal law in these facilities (for the most part). DeSantis has some control in such facilities ex. restaurants, bars and other businesses)

The real issue is whether Congress has exercised a delegated power in the Constitution over the port or facility (ie under Commerce Clause). hint: Congress has exercised that delegated power

[coffeebean]

On 6/3/2021 at 12:06 AM, kutty77 said:

I know at least a good 8-10 people who got the vaccine and still got the virus. Some of them even got it bad too including one death unfortunately. A great example look at the NY Yankees 90% off the team was vaccinated and what happened? About 10 people got the virus. 

I think there is a big difference between the mRNA vaccines and the J&J vaccine. The Yankees received the J&J vaccine. You can make what you wish out of that information.

[jfunk138]

48 minutes ago, JMKreno said:

Remember 9/11?

Unfortunately we have not been allowed to forget.  Every time we travel by air we need to be reminded with ridiculous policies that are just for show and do nothing but make it inconvenient.

I'm worried that Covid is going to do the same to travel by sea.  Constant reminders, pointless policies, and irrational fear of a disease that will still exist but no longer be a real threat.

[JMKreno]

 

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

I think there is a big difference between the mRNA vaccines and the J&J vaccine. The Yankees received the J&J vaccine. You can make what you wish out of that information.

 

This is correct but that being said, ALLof them that became infected were pretty much asymptomatic the ENTIRE TIME. That is BECAUSE OF THE VACCINE doing the vaccine thing that it does.  Statistically, had they not been vaccinated, 3 would show no symptoms, 2 would show mild, 3 moderate, 2 in the hospital, and potentially 1 death or at least ICU. I think the results speak for themselves. Honestly, had they never been testing they wouldn't have even probably have known at this point.....

 

Breakthrough infections are expected in roughly ~10% of those vaccinated based on current efficacy (and way better than other vaccines, like the flu vaccine) from all the vaccines.

 

I always find it interesting when people "know a bunch of people" who were the exceptions, when the odds of any one person "knowing" an exception is about 1 in 10, but to know 8-10? I know a lot of people, and work with a LOT of people and I only know of 2 exceptions (out of hundreds I work with over the course of weeks) who had any covid symptoms and tested positive after they got their vaccines. Neither was more than some minor aches and chills (very much like an annoying cold). This is in a workplace that tests daily...hundreds of employees and I have access to the results of those tests (I don't have NAMES, but the ones who did I knew and let me know). Odds are better to win the lottery twice...I'd suggest buying a ticket for Powerball. The statistical likelihood of knowing someone who died from Covid/complications caused by Covid after the vaccine IS FULLY EFFECTIVE is SO LOW it's hard to even compare it statistically (effective  = AT LEAST 14 DAYS post 2nd injection or 14 days from J&J and you have to guarantee the person did not pick up the virus PRIOR to full immunity). Accurate and vetted data does not lie, interpretation does.

 

Now, that does sound like the same "argument" that I keep hearing of "thousands died from the vaccine" yet thousands a day die normally, who also likely had that vaccine and other vaccines. Taking a vaccine and dying is not causation, it's correlation (unless definitive cause can be determined). People going to the hospital infected with covid and dying because they developed pneumonia IS causation (they died from complications of covid).  But to hedge my bets, my heart goes out to the original quoted poster for their losses, regardless of reason. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by JMKreno

[jfunk138]

23 minutes ago, JMKreno said:

ALLof them that became infected were pretty much asymptomatic the ENTIRE TIME.

I think you are forgetting that the asymptomatic rate was similar BEFORE the vaccination.   Young athletes in good health are simply unlikely to develop "symptomatic" Covid even when infected regardless of vaccination.  The same probably holds for other young people in good health.

 

Check out this article from last summer without the vaccine, most of the players testing positive were asymptomatic (70%) as well. 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-coronavirus-antibody-study-results-less-than-one-percent-of-participants-test-positive/

"70 percent of those who tested positive were asymptomatic -- i.e., they presented no symptoms of having COVID-19"

Edited June 4, 2021 by jfunk138

[pc_load_letter]

I don't think I've read anything specifically but what does DeSantis want exactly in terms of his suit against the CDC?

 

No test cruises?

Removal of CSO?

No vax requirements?

Immediate cruising?

No masks\social distancing?

Removal of jurisdiction of CDC over cruise ships?

 

 

[lobster1313]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

I think there is a big difference between the mRNA vaccines and the J&J vaccine. The Yankees received the J&J vaccine. You can make what you wish out of that information.

This could happen with any of the vaccines since most of the breakthrough cases are from variants and the only reason they even know about is because of MLB testing everyon3.

[TNcruising02]

4 hours ago, coffeebean said:

 

 

Deleted.  It's not worth it.  Those who think cruises should have different mandates than hotels, restaurants, bars, and amusement parks will never understand.

Edited June 4, 2021 by TNcruising02

[jedi bobs]

8 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Deleted.  It's not worth it.  Those who think cruises should have different mandates than hotels, restaurants, bars, and amusement parks will never understand.

I personaly don't think that cruise ships should have diffent mandates than land based venues like Hotels bars amusment parks ect, a cruise ship is all that wraped up into one, but, where I do think the mandate is that other contrys have diffrent rules, right now the Bahamas are requiring all passangers be full vacinated before they can come ashore, so If the cruiselines can not check then Nassau, Freeport, and Half Moon is out of all itenarys, I don't know other ports but what if all ports inluding Mexico require proof of vacination? We can't take cruises to nowhere so that is why Desanto's law will be overturned rightfully so.

 

[BlerkOne]

26 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

After "15 days to flatten the curve" turned into 15 months and counting,  he's right to be skeptical of "short term" compromises.

After 15 months we know there isn't going to be  miracle. We are in it for the long haul.

[ouse456]

Are all the foreign countries that are destinations for a cruise willing to let unvaccinated passengers sail into their harbors? I have heard that India requires passports for all cruise passengers whether they stay on the ship or not. If this is accurate, couldn't it be expected that some countries would require a vaccination passport or other proof of vaccination for all cruise ship pasengers and staff entering their harbors?

[bucfan2]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

After 15 months we know there isn't going to be  miracle. 

Or a reality check.....

[jfunk138]

7 minutes ago, ouse456 said:

Are all the foreign countries that are destinations for a cruise willing to let unvaccinated passengers sail into their harbors? I have heard that India requires passports for all cruise passengers whether they stay on the ship or not. If this is accurate, couldn't it be expected that some countries would require a vaccination passport or other proof of vaccination for all cruise ship pasengers and staff entering their harbors?

I don't think any Caribbean islands, Mexico, or Bermuda has required vaccination yet.  That pretty much covers all the roundtrips that depart from the US.

[cscurlock]

6 minutes ago, ouse456 said:

Are all the foreign countries that are destinations for a cruise willing to let unvaccinated passengers sail into their harbors? I have heard that India requires passports for all cruise passengers whether they stay on the ship or not. If this is accurate, couldn't it be expected that some countries would require a vaccination passport or other proof of vaccination for all cruise ship pasengers and staff entering their harbors?

The G7 meeting will discuss standardizing the vaccination validation across international borders.   

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

5 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

The G7 meeting will discuss standardizing the vaccination validation across international borders.   

 

Hopefully that meeting will be more productive this year.

[cruisingguy007]

39 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Deleted.  It's not worth it.  Those who think cruises should have different mandates than hotels, restaurants, bars, and amusement parks will never understand.

 

I'm with you and understand, however, the CDC isn't regulating any of these places, state and local rules apply. Cruise lines are a different situation. Comparing apples to tomatoes isn't really a fair comparison.