DeSantis nearing compromise on cruise vaccination requirements

[BlerkOne]

55 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

If the ship is in the middle of the Ocean is the concern. Who pays to helicopter to the nearest port and would the nearest port be a willing partner?

 

Evacuations at sea are to be avoided. Termination of the cruise, or at least diverting to a friendly port would be considered first. The CDC has already addressed some of this.

 

55 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

 

Will the cruise ships medical center be equipped to handle the Covid case?

 

They are being upgraded, but no, they are not a substitute for a hospital. If a patient needs more attention, they are removed from the ship by one of several methods.

 

55 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

 

Still questions to be answered.

 

[cscurlock]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

Higher costs would be one reason.

It could be,  but does that offset bringing children on board?   I think as we get more data a lot of these rules will just disappear. Time is a big factor here. Right now we are just restarting cruising.  As the cases drop then the risk really reduces.  The rules will be adjusted according to the environment the ships sail in.  I'm the glass is half full kind of person so I have hope.  Jokingly the only plus I see is that they might separate the deck chairs more because they always seem to be so damn close together. 🙂

 

[crewsweeper]

9 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Hard to tell because the person could have comorbidities and be really old.  Some people deteriorated very rapidly after testing positive and went from fine to being really in trouble. Would that happen in 7 days?  Who can say for sure but once these partially vaccinated ships sail we will get a clear picture.  These future cruises will be studied and will become models for what we do in the future if something like this happens again.   

If any person is in any of the high risk categories, they owe it to themselves to get vaccinated.  It's that simple.  Put an end to the worrywort stuff.  Depending on how long since your last shot, you may need to get a booster.  Jury still out on boosters.  For all others, a vaccine is still a good thing.  But testing should be done before boarding.  That reduces the likelihood of your scenario.

 

Back tot he topic at hand, Haven't read all 150+ posts here, but given the number of Covid cases in total and the number of vaccinated in total, the country  should be very close to herd immunity, despite the flip-flopping of Dr F.

 

 

[beerman2]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Evacuations at sea are to be avoided. Termination of the cruise, or at least diverting to a friendly port would be considered first. The CDC has already addressed some of this.

 

 

They are being upgraded, but no, they are not a substitute for a hospital. If a patient needs more attention, they are removed from the ship by one of several methods.

 

 

The CDC has addressed it , but do we know that the cruise lines have in "fact" spelled it out. I'm sure they are working on it ( at least one would hope), however nothing in concrete yet. At least not that I've seen.

[BlerkOne]

19 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Here's the problem with this logic... even last summer without the vaccine, most of the players testing positive were asymptomatic (70%) as well.  So it turns out, it was NOT much worse WITHOUT vaccinations.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-coronavirus-antibody-study-results-less-than-one-percent-of-participants-test-positive/

"70 percent of those who tested positive were asymptomatic -- i.e., they presented no symptoms of having COVID-19"

 

That's a problem with statistics and logic. Breakthrough asymptomatic cases have lower viral loads than the unvaxed. Unlike the unvaxed, there is no evidence that  breakthrough asymptomatic cases are contagious.

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, cscurlock said:

It could be,  but does that offset bringing children on board?   I think as we get more data a lot of these rules will just disappear. Time is a big factor here. Right now we are just restarting cruising.  As the cases drop then the risk really reduces.  The rules will be adjusted according to the environment the ships sail in.  I'm the glass is half full kind of person so I have hope.  Jokingly the only plus I see is that they might separate the deck chairs more because they always seem to be so damn close together. 🙂

 

It will definitely be nice if they separate deck chairs.  They could even have the popular chairs near the pool on timers so people couldn't hog them all day long.  Partitions in the casino are good because maybe it will help keep some of the smoke in the smoker's area.  I don't have a problem with distancing in the theaters.  Distancing is a plus to me.  

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

It could be,  but does that offset bringing children on board?   I think as we get more data a lot of these rules will just disappear. Time is a big factor here. Right now we are just restarting cruising.  As the cases drop then the risk really reduces.  The rules will be adjusted according to the environment the ships sail in.  I'm the glass is half full kind of person so I have hope.  Jokingly the only plus I see is that they might separate the deck chairs more because they always seem to be so damn close together. 🙂

 

Do children offset the higher risk of having an outbreak, cancelled cruises, etc.? I'm sure the bean counters have been pouring over the numbers with actual data that a layperson doesn't have access to.

 

Time is a factor, hence a conservative approach makes the most sense for bringing in sustained revenue and a controlled relaxation of restrictions as data is collected and analyzed vs the russian roulette approach.

 

I'm looking forward to the early cruises because I think they might literally be half-full.

[firefly333]

11 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

It could be,  but does that offset bringing children on board?   I think as we get more data a lot of these rules will just disappear. Time is a big factor here. Right now we are just restarting cruising.  As the cases drop then the risk really reduces.  The rules will be adjusted according to the environment the ships sail in.  I'm the glass is half full kind of person so I have hope.  Jokingly the only plus I see is that they might separate the deck chairs more because they always seem to be so damn close together. 🙂

 

Until nov 1st, the rules are from the cdc we have to deal with. They arent exactly known for dropping rules unless their hand is forced. After cdc goes away hopefully rules will match reality better. 

[BlerkOne]

9 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

The CDC has addressed it , but do we know that the cruise lines have in "fact" spelled it out. I'm sure they are working on it ( at least one would hope), however nothing in concrete yet. At least not that I've seen.

The cruise lines are required to have agreements in place with ports on the itinerary along with alternate ports if necessary. It is part of the phased CDC approach.

 

 

CSO-Phased-Approach-Infographic-p[1].pdf

[beerman2]

7 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The cruise lines are required to have agreements in place with ports on the itinerary along with alternate ports if necessary. It is part of the phased CDC approach.

 

 

CSO-Phased-Approach-Infographic-p[1].pdf 451.5 kB · 3 downloads

I get all that. Have the “cruise lines”  in fact come out and said they HAVE accepted ALL the guidelines? 
 

They have said what their requirements are , do they completely align with CDC/CSO?

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, beerman2 said:

I get all that. Have the “cruise lines”  in fact come out and said they HAVE accepted ALL the guidelines? 
 

They have said what their requirements are , do they completely align with CDC/CSO?

They would have to before the CDC allows them to move to the next phase.

[beerman2]

11 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

They would have to before the CDC allows them to move to the next phase.

OMG 

You’re like my wife who is never wrong. I’m out

[IntrepidFromDC]

2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

To me people arent thinking logically. 

 

At what pt do folks accept that carnival made its choice. 

When they make the announcement obviously, thinking logically.

[IntrepidFromDC]

27 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

I get all that. Have the “cruise lines”  in fact come out and said they HAVE accepted ALL the guidelines? 
 

They have said what their requirements are , do they completely align with CDC/CSO?

 

24 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

They would have to before the CDC allows them to move to the next phase.

 

12 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

OMG 

You’re like my wife who is never wrong. I’m out

 

And Blerk wins another round!   😁 🏴‍☠️

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

To borrow and modify a favorite line:

 

We know NOTHING, NOTHING !!

 

Tom

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

To borrow and modify a favorite line:

 

We know NOTHING, NOTHING !!

 

Tom

I think that's what is driving everyone crazy.  Next year we will all look back on this time and wonder how it ever got this crazy on the boards.  It's the not knowing that is driving speculation all over the place.  Once things are nailed down, people can make their choices and move forward.  I just hope my August Mardi Gras cruise sails.  My husband and I have done everything in our power (vaccinations) to meet whatever requirements are needed.

[CJHAN]

20 hours ago, asalligo said:

Wow, we certainly argue hard over something we have absolutely no control over. Either vaccines will or will not be required and each person will just have to decide if they are willing to cruise under the rules.

 

I personally think that vaccines will be required for the first few cruises and then the requirement will be dropped within two months of cruising resuming. Everything is almost back to normal now. Cruising will be soon also.  

This makes a lot of sense but remember we are dealing with the Fl governor here so we might still be on hold out of Fl. Vaccinated only cruises are the only way to do this without risking shutting down cruising all together again.

[songbird1329]

Well, DeSantis has certainly boxed himself in.  Mediation with the CDC failed, the CDC is now arguing to the court that they’ve made huge strides with the cruise lines and everyone is getting ready to sail.  The CDC’s “line in the sand” seems to be vaccines and now DeSantis is harping on the “unfairness” of vaccine passports.

[firefly333]

4 minutes ago, songbird1329 said:

Well, DeSantis has certainly boxed himself in.  Mediation with the CDC failed, the CDC is now arguing to the court that they’ve made huge strides with the cruise lines and everyone is getting ready to sail.  The CDC’s “line in the sand” seems to be vaccines and now DeSantis is harping on the “unfairness” of vaccine passports.

Another poster thought that the only reason cdc provided the vaccinated route was because ncl asked for it ... lots of ways to see this. 

 

 

[TNcruising02]

Pretty soon, the test cruises will be finished and sailing can resume.  It looks like the test cruises will probably be finished sometime in July.  Then the ships will be free to sail.

[songbird1329]

Mediation between Florida and the CDC failed ... I can only speculate...

[Joe817]

Just now, songbird1329 said:

Mediation between Florida and the CDC failed ... I can only speculate...

Well hell. Please do! It's a REAL open message board. We want to hear your speculations, I assure you. 

[songbird1329]

7 minutes ago, Joe817 said:

Well hell. Please do! It's a REAL open message board. We want to hear your speculations, I assure you. 

 

You want it, you’ve got it.

 

I read all of the papers submitted to the court.  I have not seen the transcript of the oral argument held before the court.

 

when I read the initial motion for a preliminary injunction, I thought Florida’s argument was weak.  I had to agree with the legal scholars that the case was more about political grandstanding and less about actually obtaining relief from the court.

 

I also thought it very telling that the cruise lines didn’t join the suit, but rather, continued to work with the CDC.

 

Floridas legal position has weakened.  The CDC and the cruise lines have reached a point where the ships are likely to sail this summer.  Congress has given its blessing by passing ATRA, which conditions Alaska cruises on compliance with the CSO.

 

Florida continues to assert that the CSO is overreach by the CDC, and that it is causing irreparable harm to Florida.  But the cruises are going to sail this summer, aren’t they?

 

meanwhile, Florida has enacted a law that prevents private businesses from requiring proof of vaccination in order to obtain services.  A business violating this law faces hefty fines.  Other states have executive orders preventing state and local governments from asking for proof, but the only state affected by the CSO that has extended the ban to private enterprises is Florida.  It’s a big deal for DeSantis.

 

Those lovely cards issued by the CDC proving someone has been vaccinated are probably the CDC’s “line in the sand”.  
 

The mediation was doomed to failure.

[Aplmac]

20 hours ago, beerman2 said:

OMG 

You’re like my wife who is never wrong. I’m out

 

Annoyingly, wives are indeed always right!

At the very least, they are rarely wrong.

And yet

we still marry them, every Saturday afternoon of life!
What is wrong with us???

[kdr69]

7 hours ago, songbird1329 said:

The mediation was doomed to failure.

 

7 hours ago, Joe817 said:

Mediation between Florida and the CDC failed ... I can only speculate...

Has it failed or is it doomed to failure?? which is it and if you have any articles to share i would love to read them as I havent heard anyone say what happened yet??