DeSantis nearing compromise on cruise vaccination requirements

[BlerkOne]

15 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

I don't believe we'll see a significant drop, but the trend should continue.  They're running out of 'fear' bullets.

The trend should continue as long as more people are getting vaccinated. Especially as those 12 and older get with the program. I doubt it will ever get to zero, but if it plateaus at too high of a level, we still have a problem, Houston.

[Radiioman46]

Fear will always be among us. Choosing to not let fear control us, is what we need more of.

 

[BlerkOne]

26 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

FWIW... the overall Covid daily new case rate for the US was virtually identical on May 28, 2020 and May 28, 2021.  (I chose May 28 because it avoids Memorial Day reporting delays in both years).

The next two weeks are critical to see if the current downtrend in cases is "seasonality" driven or "immunity" driven.  By June 14, 2020, Arizona was visibly starting its summer surge with the rest of sunbelt following soon after.

I believe cases are already increasing in AZ and MO. Including children.

[skridge]

35 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

 

I've been vaccinated for two months. I've been in hotels, airplanes, restaurants, bars, resorts, sporting events, and most recently a packed football stadium for a high school graduation and I haven't had to show proof of vaccination to anyone yet. I haven't even been asked if I've been vaccinated. The law is to prevent that from being required. I think there should be an exception for  someone who willingly shows proof of vaccination to get on a cruise ship. I think that's different than a restaurant requiring me to show proof of vaccination to eat there or a department store denying me admission without showing them a part of my medical records. That's what this is really about. The cruise industry just gets caught up in it because the CDC has their foot on it's throat. But the people with cruise ship tunnel vision that think this is anti-cruise...And the CDC isn't treating the cruise lines any different than every other business in the country is ridiculous. If anyone should be blamed it's the CDC.

They are treating the cruise industry differently from other businesses because the cruise industry is different from every other business.  No other business in the world packs up to 10,000 people on a boat where the customers are at bars and restaurants singing and dancing and laughing all of which are easy ways to spread an airborne virus for a week or more at a time.

[bdever]

Interesting vlog from Don concerning yesterday’s mediation.

 

 

[lazydayz]

35 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

So, once you step foot onto the ship, you'll be considered to be in international waters? Hasn't the big holdup been what goes on inside the terminal?

 

I wonder what would happen if the Seminole tribe had a cruise port - would Florida law apply there? I know it didn't with regard to our visit to the Hard Rock casino several years ago. One of the few places where smoking was still allowed in a restaurant! 

 

Tom

 

If the Seminoles had a cruise port, neither Florida or US law would apply as the Seminoles are a sovereign nation.  They could always agree to either Florida or federal law, but it would be their choice.  

[Saint Greg]

2 minutes ago, skridge said:

They are treating the cruise industry differently from other businesses because the cruise industry is different from every other business.  No other business in the world packs up to 10,000 people on a boat where the customers are at bars and restaurants singing and dancing and laughing all of which are easy ways to spread an airborne virus for a week or more at a time.

 

I've never been on a ship with 10k people. They could've allowed reduced capacity and they haven't. Other countries have done reduced capacity cruises. I've been at a resort for a week. I've been at a hotel for four days. I've been on an excursion in Cozumel. I've been on packed airplanes. I've been in really packed security and customs lines. The CDC could've worked with the cruise lines and they haven't.

[BrotherCraig]

20 minutes ago, skridge said:

Is the over half a milion people dead just some political stunt and click bait?  SMH

 

Didn't say anything of the sort.  I said when Texas decided to reopen a few months ago, national news went crazy and said it was a huge mistake. The President said Texas was full of Neanderthals because they reopened the state after over a year being closed and having strict mandates.  Their doom and gloom forecast was a bust.  Numbers continued to spiral downward.  Right now, the 7 day average is at its lowest points since March 2020.  We had many days with ZERO deaths.  That is a good thing.  Nothing to "SMH" about.  Something to applaud.  The media was saddened by the good news and downward trend.

Edited June 2, 2021 by BrotherCraig

[kutty77]

1 hour ago, amcankid said:

I like that idea. Why should the unvaccinated hold up the line as they wait for test results. Give them a window time in the morning to take the test and then give them an area to sit and wait for their results.

And if even one test comes

back positive, the entire group will be denied boarding. 
I don’t give a rats ass on who is or is not vaccinated when I go to the store. But this is different and I’ll be damned if I’m gonna let a few stubborn people think only of themselves thus possibly ruining my cruise as we all get quarantined. Or even worse, the cruise lines get shutdown again.

In the meantime, those vaccinated can proceed to board as soon as the ship is cleared for new passengers. Just like normal times for them.

I’d also like to see a wristband system. If you’re vaccinated you get the wristband and do what you want and go where you want.

No wristband? Masks at all times in public and buffets are off limit!!

You do realize that even if you are VACCINATED you can still get the virus and with that being said even the “vaccined” people should still have to get tested too. Oh and YES even if you are vaccinated you can pass it on to someone else and possibly have to quarantine or even worse get the cruise industry shut down. 

[Moviela]

The flag on the stern of the ship is not for decoration. It indicates that a foreign sovereign has authority over the vessel. Relations with that foreign entity must be conducted by the federal government through the Department of State. Individual states cannot pass laws (with minor exceptions dealing with taxation) that impair the rights of the foreign state. 

 

It is no wonder the cruise industry has a trump card in their hand concerning Florida's attempt to ban vaccine passports. Florida is now attempting to do damage control by mediation to  acquiesce to the ability the cruise industry already has.

 

I predict before they cast off the bow line, vaccination will be required. If you choose to avoid an experimental vaccine, I respect your choice, but you will not be entitled to cruise.

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Moviela

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

4 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

 

I've never been on a ship with 10k people. They could've allowed reduced capacity and they haven't. Other countries have done reduced capacity cruises. I've been at a resort for a week. I've been at a hotel for four days. I've been on an excursion in Cozumel. I've been on packed airplanes. I've been in really packed security and customs lines. The CDC could've worked with the cruise lines and they haven't.

 

I think the Oasis class ships can approach 9,000 (guests and crew) - how often it does that, I've no idea. Either way, that's a lot of cattle, errrr, people !

 

Tom

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

I don't have a problem with the CDC doing their job, and the vast majority of cruisers seem to favor vaccinations.

BTW, I'm not going to look back and find the post, but you quoted me and asked if the American Steamboat Company had to follow CDC guidelines because of the size of their ships. And my answer was some ships were larger and some smaller than 500. But, it was only later that I realized the answer should have been yes they are subject to CDC guidelines because they travel between states. 

[IntrepidFromDC]

"Ron DeSantis is close to signing off on a bargain that would recognize cruise ships at port as being in international waters, meaning they would not be subject to the state's newly signed vaccine passport ban if they require proof of vaccinations after passengers come aboard."...

 

I don't see that as a compromise except as spin.

 

It's anti-business because it forces cruise operators to decouple the pre-boarding and CDC 95% rule separately, an unnecessary added expense for the cruise lines and bottleneck for the passengers.  On the other hand, where does that leave the unvaccinated cruisers who "said" they were vaccinated while in the terminal?

 

POPCORN time!  😀🏴‍☠️

[Saint Greg]

1 minute ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

I think the Oasis class ships can approach 9,000 (guests and crew) - how often it does that, I've no idea. Either way, that's a lot of cattle, errrr, people !

 

Tom

 

 I don't know about with crew but google has max capacity at 6,300. And I'm saying go with reduced capacity. Cut that in half. And that layout seems like the easiest to work with. A lot of outside area it seems. Which the resorts and hotels I've been to have had guidelines of no masks required outside. Oasis seems like the easiest ship to get going to me.

[Moviela]

4 minutes ago, kutty77 said:

You do realize that even if you are VACCINATED you can still get the virus and with that being said even the “vaccined” people should still have to get tested too. Oh and YES even if you are vaccinated you can pass it on to someone else and possibly have to quarantine or even worse get the cruise industry shut down. 

Can we agree there is a possibility of being injured when opening a pickle jar. Except the chance is very slim, and enough to be considered nonexistent for all practical purposes, and a vaccinated person contracting covid19 is far less than that. That argument is a red herring. 

[BrotherCraig]

5 minutes ago, kutty77 said:

You do realize that even if you are VACCINATED you can still get the virus and with that being said even the “vaccined” people should still have to get tested too. Oh and YES even if you are vaccinated you can pass it on to someone else and possibly have to quarantine or even worse get the cruise industry shut down. 

 

 

There is absolutely no data on spread from vaccinated individuals.  Yes, they can get it but the data on spread is not complete.  Is there a chance?  Probably.  But very, very, vary rare according to public data.  As of now, with collected data so far, one dose of the vaccine halves transmission.  Two doses pretty much wipes out any chance of transmission.  Possible?  Yes.  Rare though.  Only time will tell and we will see what will happen with the variants.

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, Moviela said:

I predict before they cast off the bow line, vaccination will be required. If you choose to avoid an experimental vaccine, I respect your choice, but you will not be entitled to cruise.

 

My guess is the opposite. We did a informal poll and besides kids we have a lot of adults not vaccinated. I think my roll call is pretty representative.  

 

Personally, selfishly I'd rather vaccinated... but for carnival I dont believe it will be ... no matter what florid does. Just one more thread for some posters who think everyone wants to hear their politics. 

 

I'm in the boat ...why would carnival ask for approval to do mock cruises if they wanted to go the vaccinated route. .. and out of Galveston if carnival they could easily go this route.

 

Logic says wouldnt be vaccinated. 

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

2 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

 

 I don't know about with crew but google has max capacity at 6,300. And I'm saying go with reduced capacity. Cut that in half. And that layout seems like the easiest to work with. A lot of outside area it seems. Which the resorts and hotels I've been to have had guidelines of no masks required outside. Oasis seems like the easiest ship to get going to me.

 

Elevators are probably the worst place on the Oasis, and most ships, under normal circumstances. Talk about sardine potential! That said, it would be a far safer place with (actual/reality) 95% of people vaccinated at this point in time. 

 

There will be COVID+ people on ships, that slip through testing - even some who were vaccinated. Some people will acquire the virus onboard or in ports. Hopefully it will be minimal and below the radar - but that's going to be difficult to quantify.

 

We know how to minimize risk, but life goes on anyway (well, for those that live).  😉

 

Tom

[BlerkOne]

10 minutes ago, kutty77 said:

You do realize that even if you are VACCINATED you can still get the virus and with that being said even the “vaccined” people should still have to get tested too. Oh and YES even if you are vaccinated you can pass it on to someone else and possibly have to quarantine or even worse get the cruise industry shut down. 

Vaccinated people only need to be tested if they have symptoms. I don't think anyone has proven asymptomatic, vaccinated people can infect others. It is thought the viral load they have is too small.

 

But it does make a case that EVERYONE should be vaccinated.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Elevators are probably the worst place on the Oasis, and most ships, under normal circumstances. Talk about sardine potential! That said, it would be a far safer place with (actual/reality) 95% of people vaccinated at this point in time. 

 

There will be COVID+ people on ships, that slip through testing - even some who were vaccinated. Some people will acquire the virus onboard or in ports. Hopefully it will be minimal and below the radar - but that's going to be difficult to quantify.

 

We know how to minimize risk, but life goes on anyway (well, for those that live).  😉

 

Tom

Elevators are a concern, but exposure time is a factor. How long are you planning to be in an elevator?

[BrotherCraig]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Vaccinated people only need to be tested if they have symptoms. I don't think anyone has proven asymptomatic, vaccinated people can infect others. It is thought the viral load they have is too small.

 

But it does make a case that EVERYONE should be vaccinated.

 

 

 

True but all vaccinated people need to be tested within 72 hours flying into most countries.  PCR or Antigen.  

[BrotherCraig]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Elevators are a concern, but exposure time is a factor. How long are you planning to be in an elevator?

  10 minutes is the average on a cruise ship.  Big reason we love the COVE cabins on the lower deck.  No wait going up.  Stairs for the way down  LMAO

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Elevators are a concern, but exposure time is a factor. How long are you planning to be in an elevator?

 One never knows. And, what if it gets stuck (just kidding)!

[cruiseracer]

32 minutes ago, skridge said:

They are treating the cruise industry differently from other businesses because the cruise industry is different from every other business.  No other business in the world packs up to 10,000 people on a boat where the customers are at bars and restaurants singing and dancing and laughing all of which are easy ways to spread an airborne virus for a week or more at a time.

Be safe - don't cruise. You do have that choice. 😉

[Moviela]

5 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

 

 

I'm in the boat ...why would carnival ask for approval to do mock cruises if they wanted to go the vaccinated route? .. and out of Galveston if carnival they could easily go this route.

 

I think they signed on for simulated cruises as a "belt & suspenders" insurance policy so they can bob and weave with the CDC if necessary. Since the vaccination rate is so high and successful I have thought the need for simulated cruises is moot.  As government is involved we need wait till the last minute to have a decision.