CDC Extends CSO through Jan 15, 2022

[phoenix_dream]

1 hour ago, Algebralovr said:

A friend is on one of the Celebrity ships.  He said that the only crew excursion that has been offered has been a couple of hours at a beach.  Since he isn't a beach person, he declined to go.  While he is rather bummed out about not being allowed off the ship, he is THRILLED to be working and having an income.  So much, that he already extended his current contract, and put in for a short leave at the end of it, then a new one. 

Forgive me for being off-topic, but if you talk to your friend again could you ask what types of items (if any) we passengers could bring with us for them when we board.  I know cash is always king, but these days if they have limited ability to get off the ship and/or to shop, I would be more than happy to bring some goodies with me - be they candy, chips, even toiletry items.  I know many would do the same.

[cangelmd]

7 minutes ago, D C said:

I think Celebrity (or Royal at the corporate umbrella) is the only one doing the evac home.  I thought Carnival was kicking people off in port to fend for themselves.

 

 

I think you are right. Wasn’t there a person who eventually died that was kicked off Carnival?

[phoenix_dream]

58 minutes ago, gabbygrrl said:

I believe the testing requirement being reduced from 3 days prior, to 2, is because you can now get tested with results available in as little as an hour.  Therefore, testing prior to sailing should be fairly simple. With Walgreens, CVS, airports and private companies all offering a 24 hour or less turnaround time, even the holidays should not present an issue. The at-home kits with emed are 24/7, 365, so no issues there either.

I so disagree with the idea that this is simple to do.  I fly down on Thanksgiving and sail on Saturday.  Most testing places aren't open, and the ones that are (like the airport, if that is even open) charge a lot of $$.  If I had 3 days to work with I could get tested for FREE at the Walgreens or CVS near me before I leave, like I did back in September.  I also will have no vehicle.  Most of the test places require drive-up.  So I ordered the monitored self tests.  I need to bring 4 with me as I cannot trust the tests as there have been way too many comments about damaged tests, missing test fluid, etc..  Those are expensive.  Again, compared to the ability to do free testing if I could do 3 days.  It is also stressful just to bring them - will the TSA try to open them and therefore negate their validity?  Or I pack them in my luggage and they get stolen.  Then what?!?! 

 

And maybe most important - if I had 3 days and could test at home then if I test positive I do not fly down to Florida.  If I get there and test positive then I am in a world of hurt.  Cancelled cruise.  Can't fly home.  Need to try to find a hotel at the last minute who will allow me to quarantine until I test negative again.  

 

None of the above fits my definition of simple.

[PTC DAWG]

Why no testing for a plane ride?  Bus ride?  Train ride?  I don't even think Amtrak requires proof of vaccination.  I know the airlines domestically do not.  

 

I still think the cruise lines have gone above and beyond what other industries have done. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by PTC DAWG

[kearney]

22 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I so disagree with the idea that this is simple to do.  I fly down on Thanksgiving and sail on Saturday.  Most testing places aren't open, and the ones that are (like the airport, if that is even open) charge a lot of $$.  If I had 3 days to work with I could get tested for FREE at the Walgreens or CVS near me before I leave, like I did back in September.  I also will have no vehicle.  Most of the test places require drive-up.  So I ordered the monitored self tests.  I need to bring 4 with me as I cannot trust the tests as there have been way too many comments about damaged tests, missing test fluid, etc..  Those are expensive.  Again, compared to the ability to do free testing if I could do 3 days.  It is also stressful just to bring them - will the TSA try to open them and therefore negate their validity?  Or I pack them in my luggage and they get stolen.  Then what?!?! 

 

And maybe most important - if I had 3 days and could test at home then if I test positive I do not fly down to Florida.  If I get there and test positive then I am in a world of hurt.  Cancelled cruise.  Can't fly home.  Need to try to find a hotel at the last minute who will allow me to quarantine until I test negative again.  

 

None of the above fits my definition of simple.

Here my plan ..we are driving down..beginning two days before our cruise. I am debating trying to make a reservation two weeks prior to get the rapid test... and then drive vs ordering the kit and having the proctor view us as we take the test.  Being kind of a belt and suspenders person.. I am considering ordering the rapid home test to have in case something goes wrong with making an appointment..but not sure if I need to do that... cause once I go down that road ..I feel I would need an extra home test.. in case I messed up one. Boy I can not wait until all this is gone. my old fear was airline issues...so now I drive..and now we have this. I don't want to travel all the way to port only to find out I test positive. 

 

I do wonder the benefit of. moving from 5 day PCR.. which is more accurate to a 2 day which compels use of the less accurate rapid test...which will generate more false negatives... and cause more hassle for travelers

[canderson]

6 minutes ago, Dwight1 said:

From my understanding that after 1/15, the CDC has decided all compliance to be voluntary not required. This should result after that time vaccinations to be required but other rules as pre testing, masks , etc. to be optional based on the cruise line.

Taking side bets on "YAE" (yet another extension).

 

[foodsvcmgr]

Hoping you are correct Dwight.

[hcat]

Me too

By the time we cruise  in 2022 we will have had 2 shots plus the booster.

 

Would hope to fly in 2 days ahead to FLL .I think this  could be a problem getting a test in Ft Lauderdale..???? 

 

 

[D C]

55 minutes ago, Dwight1 said:

From my understanding that after 1/15, the CDC has decided all compliance to be voluntary not required. This should result after that time vaccinations to be required but other rules as pre testing, masks , etc. to be optional based on the cruise line.

Hasn't the CSO been voluntary since this past summer?

[kearney]

19 minutes ago, D C said:

Hasn't the CSO been voluntary since this past summer?

In Florida.... but as far as I know... this was an injunction...so nothing is settled. But since Florida brought the case... the ruling applied only to Florida...but frankly that doesn't make sense... you would think if they overstepped their authority.. they did so everywhere...but I am not a lawyer...so

[Ken the cruiser]

10 minutes ago, kearney said:

In Florida.... but as far as I know... this was an injunction...so nothing is settled. But since Florida brought the case... the ruling applied only to Florida...but frankly that doesn't make sense... you would think if they overstepped their authority.. they did so everywhere...but I am not a lawyer...so

To add on to that, here's what's listed in the latest CDC CSO at the 3rd paragraph under the Aug 27, 2021 summary statement:

 

"Added language reflecting that, as of July 23, 2021, the CSO and accompanying measures, such as technical instructions, are nonbinding recommendations for cruise ships arriving in, located within, or departing from a port in Florida. However, CDC will continue to operate the CSO as a voluntary program for such ships should they choose to follow the CSO measures on a voluntary basis."

 

COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

 

[Babr]

1 hour ago, cangelmd said:

I think you are right. Wasn’t there a person who eventually died that was kicked off Carnival?

I don’t know if “kicked off” is the best description of what happened. She was taken to a hospital because she was too ill to continue; and yes, she did die later after being returned to the states.

 

The problem is that Carnival has no assistance plan for passengers. The woman had no insurance and apparently lacked means to transfer immediately, thus delaying perhaps more effective treatment.

 

Other passengers who have since tested positive have been quarantined on board until the ship returned to home port. Passengers who could not then fly home because of a positive test were provided with a list of contracted quarantine hotels, but all associated costs are the responsibility of the passenger. I’m not aware of any who were left behind in the Caribbean to fend for themselves.

 

This has been the stated policy on the Carnival website from the beginning. Travel insurance was recommended for all, and at some point, required for the unvaccinated.

 

Other cruise lines have assistance plans, but Celebrity and Royal are the only ones that provide return transportation.

[canderson]

41 minutes ago, D C said:

Hasn't the CSO been voluntary since this past summer?

In theory, in Florida, yes.  But the CDC also has the ability to arrange for a ship to be denied access to a U.S. port.  "I'm only suggesting this course of action." followed by "I don't want to have to hurt you".

 

[Jeremiah1212]

I would be shocked to see a major change in protocols throughout the rest of the winter Caribbean season. If cruise lines do not follow the CDC guidance, they cannot hide behind the CDC prescribed guidance in case there is a big outbreak. The onus will fall squarely on them for not having effective preventative measures in place. No one is going to be surprised to see cases spike around the holidays even though the US is on a downward trend now. While I hope that isn't the case, reality suggests otherwise. It's just too early to rip the bandaid off and get back to 'normal'. 

[Covepointcruiser]

Seabourn, under the Carnival umbrella, is taking care of any passenger testing positive.  Many passengers have vaccinations last given in Jan-Mar of this year.   By now they offer only slight protection and also you are increasingly able to carry and spread the virus.   Believe the cruise lines should require everyone to be vaccinated and also have their boosters if the vaccine was given over six months ago.   The J&J vaccines should have required a booster in 60 days.

[canderson]

37 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

By now they offer only slight protection ...

Seems that it depends upon the vaccine.  Seeing more and more references to this CDC study result:

‐‐------------

CDC researchers conducted an analysis of nearly 3,689 adults who were hospitalized with severe Covid from 11 March to 15 August 2021 — a period that precedes and includes the dominance of the Delta variant.

 

The loss of efficacy against hospitalization for Pfizer was particularly pronounced: it fell from 91 percent in 14-120 days after vaccination to 77 percent more than 120 days after vaccination.

By contrast, Moderna fell from 93 percent to 92 percent when comparing the same two periods.

 

The study also included a separate analysis of the levels of different types of antibodies provoked by the vaccines, taken from 100 volunteers.

The Moderna vaccine elicited higher levels of antibodies compared to Pfizer and J&J for a key part of the virus' spike protein, which it uses to invade cells.

[kearney]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

To add on to that, here's what's listed in the latest CDC CSO at the 3rd paragraph under the Aug 27, 2021 summary statement:

 

"Added language reflecting that, as of July 23, 2021, the CSO and accompanying measures, such as technical instructions, are nonbinding recommendations for cruise ships arriving in, located within, or departing from a port in Florida. However, CDC will continue to operate the CSO as a voluntary program for such ships should they choose to follow the CSO measures on a voluntary basis."

 

COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

 

Add to that... CDC made some statement...and I am paraphrasing... we expect cruise ships to voluntarily comply with CSO otherwise we have ways of making their lives difficult...  Going from memory.. Florida went back to the judge and the judge said something like...show me an example of where they follow through and then we can talk...  But the point was made and no one wants to be on the wrong side of a government agency... Keep in mind cruise ships were not part of the law suit.  I thought this thing would quietly just go away once November came around... but I do think things have been working pretty well and no one..CDC, cruise lines and passenger want to rock the boat. It has been an interesting battle to watch.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, Dwight1 said:

From my understanding that after 1/15, the CDC has decided all compliance to be voluntary not required. This should result after that time vaccinations to be required but other rules as pre testing, masks , etc. to be optional based on the cruise line.

Keep in mind that the entire Vessel Sanitation Program, that does all of the sanitation inspections is also considered to be a voluntary program

[canderson]

13 minutes ago, nocl said:

Keep in mind that the entire Vessel Sanitation Program, that does all of the sanitation inspections is also considered to be a voluntary program

Much like "voluntary compliance" with the U.S. tax code.

[Algebralovr]

5 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

Forgive me for being off-topic, but if you talk to your friend again could you ask what types of items (if any) we passengers could bring with us for them when we board.  I know cash is always king, but these days if they have limited ability to get off the ship and/or to shop, I would be more than happy to bring some goodies with me - be they candy, chips, even toiletry items.  I know many would do the same.

I did ask, since we will see him in under 2 months - he orders what he needs from Amazon.  Amazon is making a LOT of deliveries to the ships for the crew.  Those who don't have a credit card or debit card make arrangements with a friend who does.

[canderson]

2 minutes ago, Algebralovr said:

I did ask, since we will see him in under 2 months - he orders what he needs from Amazon.  Amazon is making a LOT of deliveries to the ships for the crew.  Those who don't have a credit card or debit card make arrangements with a friend who does.

Sounds right.  Had heard in an earlier thread that Amazon gift cards are a much appreciated and "unpoolable" solution for some of those special gratuity needs.

[D C]

5 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Seabourn, under the Carnival umbrella, is taking care of any passenger testing positive.  Many passengers have vaccinations last given in Jan-Mar of this year.   By now they offer only slight protection and also you are increasingly able to carry and spread the virus.   Believe the cruise lines should require everyone to be vaccinated and also have their boosters if the vaccine was given over six months ago.   The J&J vaccines should have required a booster in 60 days.

Exactly what is considered 'slight' protection? 

The most optimistic hopes for a vaccine were to be around 70% effective. 

[Ken the cruiser]

Here’s an interesting tidbit. The Apex arrived from Europe at Port Everglades on Oct 24, two days ago, and then headed out that evening on a 4 day Caribbean cruise. But when I checked the CDC color coded cruise chart this evening, the Apex wasn’t listed. 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/cruise-ship-color-status.html

 

[Ken the cruiser]

15 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Here’s an interesting tidbit. The Apex arrived from Europe at Port Everglades on Oct 24, two days ago, and then headed out that evening on a 4 day Caribbean cruise. But when I checked the CDC color coded cruise chart this evening, the Apex wasn’t listed. 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/cruise-ship-color-status.html

 

Looks like the CDC has updated their Cruise Color chart to now include the Apex which is currently coded Green. Glad to see that as we are scheduled to cruise on the Apex on a B2B starting 11/4. Yay!!

 

 

[phoenix_dream]

On 10/26/2021 at 1:39 PM, Dwight1 said:

From my understanding that after 1/15, the CDC has decided all compliance to be voluntary not required. This should result after that time vaccinations to be required but other rules as pre testing, masks , etc. to be optional based on the cruise line.

Even if that timeframe is not extended, I would be beyond surprised if the cruise lines dropped their testing requirements.  They have nothing to lose by keeping them, and it is helpful to prevent cases onboard.  I think the only hope is that if one major line drops them, then others will need to follow or they may start losing bookings.