ART PURCHASES-SEEKING INTEREST.

[CreamCruiser]

My wife and I hold some concerns about the value and authenticity of certain pieces of artwork that were purchased by us through Park West Gallery on Princess Cruises in about May 2016, in 2018 and in 2019.  These concerns are based on our personal opinions only.  We are presently exploring these concerns and any available options to address them, if our concerns are found to be valid.  If you have a similar opinion and/or share our concerns, we invite you to contact us to discuss it further.

 

Our email address is - gary_cream@bigpond.com     

 

[CineGraphic]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-12-14/ever-bought-artwork-on-a-cruise-prepare-to-be-seasick

 

https://news.artnet.com/market/cruise-ship-auction-1626928

 

https://www.ship-technology.com/analysis/art-auctions-on-cruise-ships/

 

[CineGraphic]

In 2009, the Independent reported that one passenger was removed from a cruise for warning guests to be careful buying expensive art from Park West.

[Ombud]

I went to the auction because I liked a really pretty embossed picture. They hyped it as a lithograph. Paid $140 as it was a TKO(?) - take off, only 1 nick on frame, fits my house. I'd pay that for a print at Home Goods so I got my money worth. That was as high as I was willing to go because I was going to have to carry it on the plane home. Another time I bought a print for $50. But they really overcharged on shipping. I still like it too. 

 

Bottom line:: they are selling home decor

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Ombud

[Ombud]

Welcome to Cruise Critic @CreamCruiser! Noticed it was your 1st post 

[riffatsea]

Buyer beware!

Why does anyone believe sales,people who tell you how much a painting might be worth?

I have a lovely bridge you may want to buy.  Hehehe

 

[Mike45LC]

I have bought several Park West pieces.  They still decorate my home and office maybe 40 years later.  I bought them because I found them to be beautiful.  I did not buy them as an “investment” or for the approval of the Park West staff.  

I doubt I could find them at Home Goods, but Ombud is right, they are home decor.

[Ombud]

 

On 6/8/2022 at 11:04 PM, Mike45LC said:

I have bought several Park West pieces.  They still decorate my home and office maybe 40 years later.  I bought them because I found them to be beautiful.  I did not buy them as an “investment” or for the approval of the Park West staff.  

I doubt I could find them at Home Goods, but Ombud is right, they are home decor.

I can't find this exact picture at Hone Goods .... I meant one of this quality. Doesn't show up well in these pics and you should all recognize the one on the left marked #52/70. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Ombud

[Mike45LC]

I have several Harlod Altman Central Park pieces.  Not my exact print, but close:

 

Vintage Harold Altman Signed Lithograph Print Spring 1986 Artist Proof w/ COA | eBay

 

So long as they bring us pleasure, great!

[geoherb]

I suggest looking online before buying anything. The artists that Park West carries are prolific producers. It's easy to find how much things are selling for on the secondary market. The thing to check is the list of sold pieces on eBay and not the current listing prices.

 

[Princessfan20]

There have been a number of documentaries done on cruise art and bottom line is it is not really worth the price ever.  Must admit that the sales people are master manipulators though.  We have friends who have bought lots of it and think their home is equivalent to the Louvre Museum.  We just cannot bring ourselves to break their illusion. 

[cr8tiv1]

Princess Fine Arts was a decent Art Gallery on the ship. In my opinion, they had pieces that I considered buying (and did).  They even did a cruise with Wyland on board.  His small black and white line drawings were reasonable.  The Art Host was personal, honest, and informative

 

It has been years since Park West took over.  Their Art Hosts are pressure salesmen/women.  I could not sit and listen to the "lecture" and get the free glass of bubbly water without first signing up/registering for a paddle.  When I started asking questions, I was asked to leave.  

 

Buyer Beware.  Do your homework.  Now, with the internet easily accessible, it is easy to compare prices.  There is absolutely NOTHING of interest to me now.  It's too bad.  One "could" learn some art history if this was truly an event.

[VMax1700]

Caveat emptor.

[John Bull]

 

Cruise ship art "auctions", and  Park West Gallery in particular, have a long-standing reputation for being over-priced.

If you want to buy as an investment, buy from a reputable source after getting expert advice.

 

Go to a cruise ship "auction" and buy something only if you particularly like it, you consider it good value for you, and you want to keep it.

Or, better still, do the same as most folk - only go for the free sparkling wine 😉

 

JB 🙂

[DirtyDawg]

Hey, we bought from them too!  🤬

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by DirtyDawg
Santa might be bringing me a lump of coal this year for this one. ;)

[Pyrate13]

Buying "art" from Park West is about the same as buying it at Walmart. You really believe it has value? Sorry, but if you overpaid, that's on you.

[cruizergal70]

This whole thing is rubbish. Unless they lied to you, there is no cause for action. Anyone can price anything as they wish. I can crochet a doily and price it at $100 because it's handmade.  An artist can put whatever price tag they want on their art. Such prices and values can't be quantified without legitimate third party appraisals. 

 

Seriously,  who goes on a ship to buy "fine art?"

[weltek]

On 7/9/2022 at 8:52 AM, cruizergal70 said:

Seriously,  who goes on a ship to buy "fine art?"

You do realize that many, many, many cruisers come from small towns or have limited education, and may have no experience or opportunity to understand the whole world of art that exists between Hobby Lobby and the Louvre. 

[iancal]

Google Park West litigation.

 

 

[mom says]

2 hours ago, weltek said:

You do realize that many, many, many cruisers come from small towns or have limited education, and may have no experience or opportunity to understand the whole world of art that exists between Hobby Lobby and the Louvre. 

Not sure what your point is, other than that there really is a sucker born every minute. If you choose to spend money without knowing just what it is you're buying, then that's on you. But if you think that Black velvet Elvis painting is the most beautiful thing in the world, then you should be happy with the price you paid for it.

[Hlitner]

This topic comes up now and than and is usually UGLY!  But folks might want to simply google "Park West scam" and start reading.    I will admit that we prefer the upscale cruise lines that do not need to maximize their onboard revenue with things like art auctions (a huge profit center for cruise lines), Bingo, etc.

 

A few years ago, we met a professional art appraiser (he lives in the Atlanta area) who joined us for a few dinners during a cruise.  This passenger made his living appraising art and the bulk of his business was doing it for estates.   When somebody at the table asked him at Park West and cruise line auctions it would be an understatement to say he rolled his eyes.  He told the table that Park West caused him a lot of grief because he sometimes had to appraise works purchased through that company.  Folks were often surprised (and very angry) to find that the value of items they owned was generally worth a lot less than they had been led to believe.   The discussion than went off into the art topic of Giclee which can be relatively high quality copies made by a sophisticated ink jet printer.  Suffice it to say that an awful lot of Glicee's are sold at cruise ship art auctions.  The best way to describe this situation is that if you buy a "limited edition" print and want a dozen more, they can be quickly produced.   For many years, art auctioneers would never say the word "Giclee."  Now, we have heard some pretty honest auctioneers use that term.   I once teased a Park West auctioneer that LeRoy Neiman would live forever (and they would never run out of his works) thanks to the miracle of Glycee.  Her teasing response was that many of their Glycee's were "embellished" by the artist :).

 

DW and I do appreciate art (especially impressionistic works) and have seen some beautiful stuff displayed at the ship galleries.  Our problem was that we knew it was pretty easy to purchase comparable stuff elsewhere (on land) for much less money.  Keep in mind that Park West must pay the salary/expenses of the auctioneer (and many do quite well), usually an assistant, give a percentage to the cruise line, and generate a nice profit for themselves.  

 

The last time a Park West auctioneer tried to coerce us to an auction I told him that we would attend if they would pour real French Champagne.  Obviously, this meant we did not attend.    Then again, we have been on some cruises where the best entertainment on the ship were the art auctions :)..

 

Hank

[Toofarfromthesea]

5 hours ago, weltek said:

You do realize that many, many, many cruisers come from small towns or have limited education, and may have no experience or opportunity to understand the whole world of art that exists between Hobby Lobby and the Louvre. 

 

You do realize that people from small towns, or limited education (that supported sufficient prosperity to allow them to cruise) have access to all of the modern conveniences like TV and the internet, and are just as likely to know something about art as you might.  And it has been my experience that these kinds of people tend to have strong values and strong common sense when to comes to avoiding scam-like operations.  Like art sales on cruise ships.

[Toofarfromthesea]

41 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

A few years ago, we met a professional art appraiser (he lives in the Atlanta area) who joined us for a few dinners during a cruise.  This passenger made his living appraising art and the bulk of his business was doing it for estates.   When somebody at the table asked him at Park West and cruise line auctions it would be an understatement to say he rolled his eyes.  He told the table that Park West caused him a lot of grief because he sometimes had to appraise works purchased through that company. 

 

I used to play 3-cushion billiards with a guy who had 40+ years in the jewelry business.  When I told him I was going on a cruise he told me not to buy any jewelry on the ship.  He has been asked to appraise ship-bought jewelry numerous times and they never appraised out to anywhere near the purchase price.

 

It was moot, in my case, because neither my wife nor I are jewelry people.

[Hlitner]

9 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

I used to play 3-cushion billiards with a guy who had 40+ years in the jewelry business.  When I told him I was going on a cruise he told me not to buy any jewelry on the ship.  He has been asked to appraise ship-bought jewelry numerous times and they never appraised out to anywhere near the purchase price.

 

It was moot, in my case, because neither my wife nor I are jewelry people.

The ole "Duty Free" con!  So a shop on a ship (or in some ports) says they are "duty free."  Perhaps that is correct, but duty free does not mean less expensive.   A few years ago I saw a very nice watch on a Celebrity cruise in what was their duty free jewelry shop.  As I was looking at the watch I quickly looked online (with my phone) and found the same watch available from several reputable US based vendors for substantially less than the price on the ship.  We showed that to the store manager who just laughed and said they did not have a price match policy.  It is the same with booze!  On Princess I saw they had some decent Scotch and Cognac and quickly pulled up our Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board price list.  PA has some pretty high prices since our State government controls all liquor sales.  But the two items I priced were actually less expensive in PA than in the Duty Free shop of the ship.  Go figure.

 

The problem with truly fine jewelry is that few folks know how to appraise the real value of decent jewelry.  We are supposed to believe the sales folks (kind of like believing the used car sales person).  They will sometimes offer you a written appraisal from some relatively unknown company which is worth about the cost of the paper it is printed on.   Appraisals are for insurance companies and your insurance premium is based on that appraisal.  But even most insurers will no longer pay off on a missing or stolen fine jewel.  Nearly all policies allow them to replace it with something comparable.  So, if you buy a $10,000 ring (that is actually worth $5000) and get a $10,000 appraisal your premium will be based on $10,000.  But if that item disappears the insurance company can simply find another $5000 comparable piece (for which they will likely pay a lot less than $5000) and give you the replacement.  But for years, you would have been paying an insurance premium based on the $10,000 value.   What a racket.

 

Here is my challenge to jewelry owners.  The next time you get an appraisal on some fine jewelry, ask the place that appraises your item how much they will pay you for that item.  :).  Something is only worth what somebody else will pay.  So, if nobody will give you more than $5000 for that $10,000 diamond what is it's true worth?   Think about it.  

 

We live in Puerto Vallarta for part of the year.  The airport has a nice Duty Free shop where they sell all kinds of things including lots of Tequilia.  But there is no "duty" on Tequilia within Mexico since it is a Mexican product.  Whenever we have priced-out the Tequilia at the airport it is substantially more expensive than in our favorite local liquor stores.  But we always see plenty of folks lining up to buy tequilia at the airport.  Even the Scotch at the airport costs more than it does in nearby Walmart, Sams, or Costco.

 

Hank

[donaldsc]

17 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The ole "Duty Free" con!  So a shop on a ship (or in some ports) says they are "duty free."  Perhaps that is correct, but duty free does not mean less expensive.   A few years ago I saw a very nice watch on a Celebrity cruise in what was their duty free jewelry shop.  As I was looking at the watch I quickly looked online (with my phone) and found the same watch available from several reputable US based vendors for substantially less than the price on the ship.  We showed that to the store manager who just laughed and said they did not have a price match policy.  It is the same with booze!  On Princess I saw they had some decent Scotch and Cognac and quickly pulled up our Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board price list.  PA has some pretty high prices since our State government controls all liquor sales.  But the two items I priced were actually less expensive in PA than in the Duty Free shop of the ship.  Go figure.

 

The problem with truly fine jewelry is that few folks know how to appraise the real value of decent jewelry.  We are supposed to believe the sales folks (kind of like believing the used car sales person).  They will sometimes offer you a written appraisal from some relatively unknown company which is worth about the cost of the paper it is printed on.   Appraisals are for insurance companies and your insurance premium is based on that appraisal.  But even most insurers will no longer pay off on a missing or stolen fine jewel.  Nearly all policies allow them to replace it with something comparable.  So, if you buy a $10,000 ring (that is actually worth $5000) and get a $10,000 appraisal your premium will be based on $10,000.  But if that item disappears the insurance company can simply find another $5000 comparable piece (for which they will likely pay a lot less than $5000) and give you the replacement.  But for years, you would have been paying an insurance premium based on the $10,000 value.   What a racket.

 

Here is my challenge to jewelry owners.  The next time you get an appraisal on some fine jewelry, ask the place that appraises your item how much they will pay you for that item.  :).  Something is only worth what somebody else will pay.  So, if nobody will give you more than $5000 for that $10,000 diamond what is it's true worth?   Think about it.  

 

We live in Puerto Vallarta for part of the year.  The airport has a nice Duty Free shop where they sell all kinds of things including lots of Tequilia.  But there is no "duty" on Tequilia within Mexico since it is a Mexican product.  Whenever we have priced-out the Tequilia at the airport it is substantially more expensive than in our favorite local liquor stores.  But we always see plenty of folks lining up to buy tequilia at the airport.  Even the Scotch at the airport costs more than it does in nearby Walmart, Sams, or Costco.

 

Hank

 

Good post.  Another thing and that is if I understand the concept of "duty free" correctly.  When they say that the item is duty free, that only applies to duties that might be levied in the country where you purchase the item.  You may still have to pay duties to the country from which you disembark the ship.  For example when we returned from a driving trip in Canada we bought several cases of wine at a duty free shop in Canada because we likes the wine.  We still had to pay a minimal duty on the wine when we returned to the US. 

 

One way that you might save significant amounts by purchasing stuff overseas is a saving on sales tax.  The sales tax where I live is 8.5%.  If I buy a $1000 watch at my local jewelry store I will have to pay $85 sales tax.  If I buy it on the ship even at the same price I don't pay sales tax. Yes.  I know that I am supposed to declare the item to my state taxing authority but who does?

 

Bottom line on anything you purchase aboard.  Buy it because you like it and not because you save some money on it.

 

DON