After Reading Numerous Posts over the last Several Weeks, These are my thoughts

[BermudaBound2014]

7 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

  What I don’t understand is the need to denigrate a line and its passengers for things which others do or do not like to do.  If HAL doesn’t suit someone’s lifestyle, find something which does and move on.  (Or they could moan about why they don’t like HAL and sail with them anyway, ensuring a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Some people are warped like that.)

I agree anyone seeking entertainment past midnight should not be sailing HAL. I also agree that HALs traditional niche is a “quiet” cruise to interesting ports. When I think of HAL I think of older, quieter, w/longer and more diverse itineraries. 

 

I think the question posed here is- Are there enough people seeking a “quiet” experience to sustain HAL as a cruise line? Especially when much of the fleet fails to offer interesting itineraries? I agree with those stating HAL is in the midst of an Identity crisis.
 

It does seem (to me) that HAL is at a crossroads. 

 

[*Miss G*]

3 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I take your point -- but also HAL needs to do a better job with consistency. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but on 28 days on the Westerdam, we had nary a single cooking demonstration, lectures were extremely sparse (on the first half of the cruise, the port info lectures were not even given live), and HAL removed one of the "pillars" of their night-time music (Lincoln Center Stage) without any attempt at replacement. 

 

It is difficult when others are praising all of these "opportunities" to understand why they are not offered consistently across the fleet?  And perhaps those who experience such enriching cruises can also try to understand that others DO have differing experiences...

 

I get what your are saying.  I’ve had less-than experiences too.  While the positives outweigh the negatives, I will continue to focus on those.  If I didn’t, it would color how I feel about the rest of the journey.  Consistency would be nice but I’m realistic enough to know how difficult that is to achieve, given human nature and endless combinations of variables.  I am sorry you did not enjoy your trip.  One should never come away feeling that way.

[moscow123456]

28 minutes ago, bennybear said:

After many med cruises, I would give my eye teeth for some unusual ports.  I seem to only find them on the more high end cruises.  

 

 

Can you offer any suggestions as to cruise lines that have a more diverse list of ports?  We want to do a Med cruise next but are not looking to go to the "usual" ports.  Thanks so much!

Edited May 17, 2023 by moscow123456

[Roz]

@LAFFNVEGAS, HAL is consistently inconsistent. 😁

[cgolf1]

17 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I agree anyone seeking entertainment past midnight should not be sailing HAL. I also agree that HALs traditional niche is a “quiet” cruise to interesting ports. When I think of HAL I think of older, quieter, w/longer and more diverse itineraries. 

 

I think the question posed here is- Are there enough people seeking a “quiet” experience to sustain HAL as a cruise line? Especially when much of the fleet fails to offer interesting itineraries? I agree with those stating HAL is in the midst of an Identity crisis.
 

It does seem (to me) that HAL is at a crossroads. 

 

 

Even though we are on the young side of the typical HAL cruiser, we very much enjoy quiet cruises. We are done with every minute of every day planned with activities. Our first cruise post pandemic on the Connie, I did more of my puzzle book and lost more cribbage games then ever out on that back deck with the video screen. I bet we chilled out there for 1/2 the day everyday. That was one of the best cruises ever. We did sail HAL due to the intinerary.

 

To your point about HAL being at a crossroads, sure along with every cruise line. I have been on a Celebrity crossroads thread similar to this too. Whether its debt issues, difficulty hiring staff, food costs, etc it is a tough time for cruise lines and all of them are doing various things to navigate through it, many unpopular to try and make it back out of the darkness. Listening to the Connie CD about her time on the empty ship during the shutdown it was pretty much darkness. Having sailed when the X cuts were at their worst, some things weren't great but we managed. 

 

I am hoping that cruise lines will find there footing again over the next few years and then we will get to whatever the new normal is. I guess that is why we aren't abandoning any one line because it sounds like it impacts all lines.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

3 minutes ago, Roz said:

@LAFFNVEGAS, HAL is consistently inconsistent. 😁

Most Definitely!! 👍

[*Miss G*]

19 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I think the question posed here is- Are there enough people seeking a “quiet” experience to sustain HAL as a cruise line? Especially when much of the fleet fails to offer interesting itineraries? I agree with those stating HAL is in the midst of an Identity crisis.

 

Well, I suppose I’ll let the bean counters decide that since they’re the ones getting paid for the analysis and I don’t have access to their information.

 

With respect, I will disagree with your view on “interesting itineraries” and “identity crisis”.  HAL still has many interesting itineraries which I would love to do, with many yet to come.  Identity crisis?  I can’t see it.  I am seeing a transitional period and am curious as to the outcome.  I’ll withhold judgement until they’re done.

[BermudaBound2014]

13 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

 

Well, I suppose I’ll let the bean counters decide that since they’re the ones getting paid for the analysis and I don’t have access to their information.

 

With respect, I will disagree with your view on “interesting itineraries” and “identity crisis”.  HAL still has many interesting itineraries which I would love to do, with many yet to come.  Identity crisis?  I can’t see it.  I am seeing a transitional period and am curious as to the outcome.  I’ll withhold judgement until they’re done.

I see “identity crisis” and “transitional period” much the same and agree that the bean counters will ultimately determine the direction that HAL takes.
 

I’m booked on a very interesting 35 night itinerary. I expect expect minimal night life. I also paid a fraction of the luxury lines doing similar itineraries and my expectations for quality are aligned with the debt level. 
 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by BermudaBound2014

[cruisemom42]

57 minutes ago, moscow123456 said:

Can you offer any suggestions as to cruise lines that have a more diverse list of ports?  We want to do a Med cruise next but are not looking to go to the "usual" ports.  Thanks so much!

 

Azamara offers some very interesting itineraries. Unfortunately they do not have many longer cruises but often each succeeding cruise has different ports so if you string 2 or more together, you can come up with interesting options.

 

I am on a BTB Azamara cruise in October, mainly in the Eastern Med that will visit (among others) Rovinj, Volos, Gythion, Thessaloniki, Patmos, Cesme, Argostoli and also has an overnight in Istanbul.

 

All of their ships are the same size -- about 700 passengers.

Edited May 17, 2023 by cruisemom42

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Exactly -- which is why I emphasize that it's important to read reviews with your own requirements in mind and disregard other "noise".  Dining alone for more than two weeks would not be my cup of tea at all, but I'm sure dining with your DW is completely acceptable!

 

Yes, if dining with my DW was not acceptable, I imagine we would not be anywhere in our relationship near having our 46th anniversary onboard. But, that does not mean I won't miss meeting other people and sharing both our stories and their stories.

 

When you cruise with your son, would it be fair to say you enjoy his company, but you still would like to meet and share with others?

[highscar]

Been cruising HAL since the 90’s.  Have no inclination to sail elsewhere.   I make my own itinerary along with the ships.  Just thankful I am able to cruise.   

[julia]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

 

I think the question posed here is- Are there enough people seeking a “quiet” experience to sustain HAL as a cruise line? Especially when much of the fleet fails to offer interesting itineraries? I agree with those stating HAL is in the midst of an Identity crisis.
 

It does seem (to me) that HAL is at a crossroads. 

 

Well, I would have killed for some "QUIET" on our recent 35 night Koningsdam!  The non-stop, loud, techno-crap music played 24/7 EVERYWHERE, and most sadly, in the Crow's Nest.  There was no peace and quiet, aside from our balcony. It was grating and annoying, and many were complaining (including myself). I was fed the excuse that "this is what Seattle wants" (basically ignoring the older demographics of a lengthy cruise).  So... good luck with that Seattle, our next cruise is on Oceania.

[Mary229]

@julia  really,   I have never had constant barrage of music on HAL.  I hope your dissent went as far as scathing remarks in your post cruise review (the one HAL sends).  That bothers me too.

 

My DH has always been the quiet type and after my parents introduced him to HAL he won’t go anywhere else plus like me he likes the long,  unique itinerary.   I am more broad minded but I am all about itinerary and long cruises.  If I am leaving home I want to be gone at least a month.  I look high and low and just don’t see anyone matching HAL for itinerary.  
 

I don’t think HAL has lost its identity, they have stated what they want to be - Alaska and the 30+ day unique itinerary but currently they are needing just to make ends meet.  Meeting economic goals is requiring them to go “where the money is”.  
 

I don’t think their entertainment team is terribly good at finding talent or developing programs.  They should consider some new executives in that office.  Their dining team is making some questionable choices also dumbing down the menu and recipe to appeal to a “perception” of the typical HAL cruiser.  There seems to be a little ageism creeping into the management team, that is, these are old people they want ——— (fill in the blank) and not considering that mature people are as diverse and energetic as any other age group.  Yes, I know some of you are younger and I started HAL at 40 but at that time I was always cognizant that we were the youngsters.
 

As an aside: I think to fulfill the 30+ day niche they are going to have to consider offering the land and cruise tours to other regions.  They do this very well in Alaska

[bennybear]

2 hours ago, moscow123456 said:

Can you offer any suggestions as to cruise lines that have a more diverse list of ports?  We want to do a Med cruise next but are not looking to go to the "usual" ports.  Thanks so much!

@cruisemom42 has mentioned one of the lines where I liked the itinerary.   I go and look at ports listed on  one of the big online agencies.   It’s hard to get more than one or two new ones.  Patmos is high on my list, but some cruises only spend a short time on that island. 

It is intriguing to me to try to visit the more unusual places that can be difficult to get to.   We’ve spent many months in the Greek islands and love that area but it would take more than a lifetime to see it all.  

Edited May 17, 2023 by bennybear

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, moscow123456 said:

Can you offer any suggestions as to cruise lines that have a more diverse list of ports?  We want to do a Med cruise next but are not looking to go to the "usual" ports.  Thanks so much!

Hmm.  Azamara, Oceania, and Seabourn quickly come to mind.   

 

Hank

[slidergirl]

8 hours ago, Mary229 said:

@cgolf1  no mini golf (which is a great idea) but we do have corn hole😂

Hey, people were playing corn hole and pickle ball on the Eurodam on the Apr 29 Alaska cruise!  Now, I think it was drunk corn hole - plenty of beer around the playing field.

[Mary229]

20 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

Hey, people were playing corn hole and pickle ball on the Eurodam on the Apr 29 Alaska cruise!  Now, I think it was drunk corn hole - plenty of beer around the playing field.

Well horseshoes, from which it is derived, certainly spawned a lot of family picnic legends.  

[Florida_gal_50]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

@julia  really,   I have never had constant barrage of music on HAL.  I hope your dissent went as far as scathing remarks in your post cruise review (the one HAL sends).  That bothers me too.

 

My DH has always been the quiet type and after my parents introduced him to HAL he won’t go anywhere else plus like me he likes the long,  unique itinerary.   I am more broad minded but I am all about itinerary and long cruises.  If I am leaving home I want to be gone at least a month.  I look high and low and just don’t see anyone matching HAL for itinerary.  
 

I don’t think HAL has lost its identity, they have stated what they want to be - Alaska and the 30+ day unique itinerary but currently they are needing just to make ends meet.  Meeting economic goals is requiring them to go “where the money is”.  
 

I don’t think their entertainment team is terribly good at finding talent or developing programs.  They should consider some new executives in that office.  Their dining team is making some questionable choices also dumbing down the menu and recipe to appeal to a “perception” of the typical HAL cruiser.  There seems to be a little ageism creeping into the management team, that is, these are old people they want ——— (fill in the blank) and not considering that mature people are as diverse and energetic as any other age group.  Yes, I know some of you are younger and I started HAL at 40 but at that time I was always cognizant that we were the youngsters.
 

As an aside: I think to fulfill the 30+ day niche they are going to have to consider offering the land and cruise tours to other regions.  They do this very well in Alaska

The music was blaring on my last cruise barely a month ago.  We couldn’t get into our rooms until 12 so I sat in the ocean bar and it was loud in there.  It’s was loud in the lido as well.  I love peace and quiet in the cabanas and for once the first few days were lovely and quiet.  The cabana steward told me the music player was broken.  I said please don’t fix it.  Well a couple days later music was back.  Where’s the supply chain issue when you need it 😛?  

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

The music was blaring on my last cruise barely a month ago.  We couldn’t get into our rooms until 12 so I sat in the ocean bar and it was loud in there.  It’s was loud in the lido as well.  I love peace and quiet in the cabanas and for once the first few days were lovely and quiet.  The cabana steward told me the music player was broken.  I said please don’t fix it.  Well a couple days later music was back.  Where’s the supply chain issue when you need it 😛?  

I have been lucky , the Volendam was peacefully quiet except the occasional happy hour tunes and occasional lido deck music very early in the morning which I think was the crew’s choice for cleaning. 

[Florida_gal_50]

1 minute ago, Mary229 said:

I have been lucky , the Volendam was peacefully quiet except the occasional happy hour tunes and occasional lido deck music very early in the morning which I think was the crew’s choice for cleaning. 

I should have mentioned on my survey but I forgot about it until I was reading this now.  I should really keep some better notes.  

[OlsSalt]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Is HAL really equipped to do that at present?  Their 3 newest and largest ships do not lend themselves all that well to destination travel. And even with their other ships HAL seem to be running an awful lot of short cruises currently (yes, some can be hooked together, but that's a different kind of experience).

 

Take the Mediterranean, an area I feel I can talk about knowledgeably given the many cruises I've done there. HAL used to be a place I would look for interesting new ports or itineraries in the Med. This summer, unless I am missing something, it seems they only have one ship in the Mediterranean, the Oosterdam. And her itineraries are not very inspiring. 😥

 

For destination travelers who have already done the basic cookie-cutter Med itineraries, where the ports to tempt one? Where are Gythion, Pula, Sousse, Antalya, Monemvasia, Portovenere, Sete, Tarragona, Ithaca, Ancona?  Are they all cut because current HAL ships are too large?

 

 

 

Of course, HAL is not equipped to do this at present. That is a given, considering the directions they have recently taken - trying to compete with the big onboard recreational ships. 

 

If they can sell off their older, popular smaller ships; why not sell off their newer ones that confuse the former HAL brand - destination ships for older, quieter travel oriented passengers who can roll with a little "inconsistencies" and not reject the entire cruise experience when where they are going is still what matters most?

 

Hard to retain brand loyalty to just a name, when the product itself has become so inconsistent and confusing. 

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I should have mentioned on my survey but I forgot about it until I was reading this now.  I should really keep some better notes.  

Since the start up I have started the habit of keeping a pad on my desk for my review notes.  Things that required immediate action go, first, to the app

[Globehoppers]

Recently back from a Panama transit on Zaandam proceeded by a trans-Atlantic on Oceania Marina.  

 

First "cruise" was a trans-Atlantic as a youngster in 1949 with parents who were being transferred from Miami to Amsterdam by a US company.  The "good old days" of ocean liner travel.  Back and forth across the north Atlantic numerous times on a variety of ships: HAL ships, SS America (three times), SS United States, SS Constitution, etc.  Following university, commissioned in the US Navy and wore the uniform for 30 years, "cruising" around the world.  We have been fortunate enough to have made landfall on all 7 continents though the combination of modern cruising and the US Navy.  

 

Started "cruising" in 1999 on a Royal Caribbean ship in the Caribbean.  Good reintroduction to ocean travel and port visits.  Since then have sailed with numerous cruise lines to include Royal, Celebrity, Azamara, Oceania, Hurtigruten (Antarctica) and HAL.  They all offer different perspectives, from the overstuffed Royal ships to more elegant Celebrity offerings.  Dining, such as it is on cruise ships, varies by ship (we are not "foodies," although we do enjoy fresh food from many ethnic locales around the world.

 

To focus back on this thread, we have found the modern "plastic" cruise ships with their carnival atmospheres inimical to our vision of a good cruise and a good ship.  Azamara, at least pre-sale by RCCL, is a favorite and did cruising "right."  Great crews, officers and crew, on all their ship.  Welcoming environment like coming home.  Have some distain for the mega ships who operate without personality and more for the "nickel and diming" their cooperate owners can extract from "guests."  We also abhor some of the advertising fostered on perspective guests, especially the trade-marked "best food at sea" by Oceania.  

 

Comparing Oceania (Marina) to HAL Zaandam we really found Marina lacking.  The ambiance did not  match the hype.  Food was okay, specialty restaurants were so crowded and noisy it was difficult to hear each other on a "two-top."  On one occasion a group of 4 sat next to us in the Chinese restaurant, each with 3 drinks in hand and likely several more already consumed.  Found the ambiance on Zaandam much more peaceful and elegant, especially in specialty restaurants.  Better food as well.  And much less crowded in the buffet.  A canal transit is similar to a trans-Atlantic as far as entertainment and days at sea and, again, Zaandam was better than Marina.  Like Azamara it seems that officers and crew cared about their passengers.  Not so on Marina.

 

I am personally dreading and upcoming Royal cruise on Odyssey, the epitome of a "plastic" ship focused not on the love of the seas, but on what the cruise line can extract from the cruiser.  Spouse has committed us to the TA with acquaintances...

Edited May 17, 2023 by Globehoppers
Correction

[Mary229]

@Globehoppers after a breakup with HAL a number of years ago I dated Oceana.  I agree with every word you wrote but would go further and  say the crew were downright surly.  Never again.  My sister still won’t sell their product 5 years later 

[cgolf1]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

Since the start up I have started the habit of keeping a pad on my desk for my review notes.  Things that required immediate action go, first, to the app

 

I use the paper daily sheets for each days notes which makes it easier for me to do the trip reports when I get back. Also when I reference an activity or performance or need to.