Can't do a B2B from Vancouver on the same ship

[suzyed]

We booked a California Coastal that ends in Vancouver and planned to do an Alaskan cruise to follow as a B2B....both on the Discovery Princess.  We booked online and paid our deposit and today I get a call from Princess saying we can't do this since Vancouver is not considered a distant foreign port!  GRRR!
Does this sound right?

 

[middlehaitch]

Yes, it is correct.

One can't embark at one USA port and disembark at a different USA port without visiting a distant foreign port, Vancouver isn't distant.

This is part of the USA PVSA. Because you are on a continuous journey on the same ship it isn't viewed as a b2b by the PVSA but as a single voyage. 

 

cheers, h

 

https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-23?language=en_US

Edited November 30, 2023 by middlehaitch

[startedwithamouse]

12 minutes ago, suzyed said:

We booked a California Coastal that ends in Vancouver and planned to do an Alaskan cruise to follow as a B2B....both on the Discovery Princess.  We booked online and paid our deposit and today I get a call from Princess saying we can't do this since Vancouver is not considered a distant foreign port!  GRRR!
Does this sound right?

 

Where does your cruise embark from?  If Los Angeles, and you're ending in Seattle, it's not allowed. 

 

Work arounds

 

1. Spend the night in Vancouver, and jump on a different ship. 

 

2. Disembark in Victoria the previous day (if Discovery visits prior to Vancouver), and take the BC ferry from Victoria to Vancouver, and spend the night in Vancouver. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by startedwithamouse

[d9704011]

12 minutes ago, startedwithamouse said:

Where does your cruise embark from?  If Los Angeles, and you're ending in Seattle, it's not allowed. 

 

Work arounds

 

1. Spend the night in Vancouver, and jump on a different ship. 

 

2. Disembark in Victoria the previous day (if Discovery visits prior to Vancouver), and take the BC ferry from Victoria to Vancouver, and spend the night in Vancouver. 

Number 2 may work but I don't believe Princess will (now) sell the two cruises together knowing they create a PVSA violation.  

[suzyed]

14 minutes ago, startedwithamouse said:

Where does your cruise embark from?  If Los Angeles, and you're ending in Seattle, it's not allowed. 

 

Work arounds

 

1. Spend the night in Vancouver, and jump on a different ship. 

 

2. Disembark in Victoria the previous day (if Discovery visits prior to Vancouver), and take the BC ferry from Victoria to Vancouver, and spend the night in Vancouver. 

 

[suzyed]

Just now, suzyed said:

 

 

Just now, suzyed said:

 

If we did the Victoria thing (which I just mentioned to my DH) would there be any change in our cruise fare because we had one less day onboard?  And then we would have to pay for a hotel in Vancouver.

[startedwithamouse]

18 minutes ago, suzyed said:

 

If we did the Victoria thing (which I just mentioned to my DH) would there be any change in our cruise fare because we had one less day onboard?  And then we would have to pay for a hotel in Vancouver.

Friends did this a few years back and no, no additional charge.

 

Yes, you'd pay for a hotel in Vancouver, the ferry ride (or seaplane), but it is a work around if you need to do a B2B. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by startedwithamouse

[d9704011]

16 minutes ago, suzyed said:

 

If we did the Victoria thing (which I just mentioned to my DH) would there be any change in our cruise fare because we had one less day onboard?  And then we would have to pay for a hotel in Vancouver.

If you can get permission from Princess and CBSA to leave the ship in Victoria I'm certain you'll still have to pay the entire cruise fair plus a hotel in either Victoria or Vancouver and all your transportation costs between Victoria and Vancouver.

[cr8tiv1]

I read your post (I think carefully).  At first, I thought you were doing a back to back from Vancouver.  Then...

 

US port to Vancouver, then Vancouver round trip...acceptabble.

 

US port to Vancouver, then Vancouver to a different US port...unacceptable.  

 

Options:

 

1.  Get off in Victoria / get back on in Vancouver...but not sure that would really work since itinerary would be the same.

 

2.  Get off in Vancouver / enjoy Vancouver for the night / Hop on a ship/train to Seattle.  Doable.  But, those repo from Vancouver to Seattle are usually 1nighters.  

 

3.  Do a round trip to Alaska from Vancouver.

 

4.  Write your congressman/congresswoman to get rid of PVSA (good luck).

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by cr8tiv1

[startedwithamouse]

1 hour ago, cr8tiv1 said:

I read your post (I think carefully).  At first, I thought you were doing a back to back from Vancouver.  Then...

 

US port to Vancouver, then Vancouver round trip...acceptabble.

 

US port to Vancouver, then Vancouver to a different US port...unacceptable.  

 

Options:

 

1.  Get off in Victoria / get back on in Vancouver...but not sure that would really work since itinerary would be the same.

 

2.  Get off in Vancouver / enjoy Vancouver for the night / Hop on a ship/train to Seattle.  Doable.  But, those repo from Vancouver to Seattle are usually 1nighters.  

 

3.  Do a round trip to Alaska from Vancouver.

 

4.  Write your congressman/congresswoman to get rid of PVSA (good luck).

 

They would have to spend the night in Vancouver, off the ship. 

[startedwithamouse]

1 hour ago, cr8tiv1 said:

I read your post (I think carefully).  At first, I thought you were doing a back to back from Vancouver.  Then...

 

US port to Vancouver, then Vancouver round trip...acceptabble.

 

US port to Vancouver, then Vancouver to a different US port...unacceptable.  

 

Options:

 

1.  Get off in Victoria / get back on in Vancouver...but not sure that would really work since itinerary would be the same.

 

2.  Get off in Vancouver / enjoy Vancouver for the night / Hop on a ship/train to Seattle.  Doable.  But, those repo from Vancouver to Seattle are usually 1nighters.  

 

3.  Do a round trip to Alaska from Vancouver.

 

4.  Write your congressman/congresswoman to get rid of PVSA (good luck).

 

Yeah, the topic title is very confusing. 

[Easyrider949]

You can also add a third leg and create a BtBtB and end up in Vancouver. As long as you stay on the same ship. This means you are starting off in a California port and ending in a foreign port. This will allow you to be legal.

[startedwithamouse]

3 minutes ago, Easyrider949 said:

You can also add a third leg and create a BtBtB and end up in Vancouver. As long as you stay on the same ship. This means you are starting off in a California port and ending in a foreign port. This will allow you to be legal.

No, they can't. Discovery doesn't go back to Vancouver; she uses Seattle as her home port for the Alaska season.  That's the reason she sails first to Vancouver. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by startedwithamouse

[beg3yrs]

Disembarking at Victoria is fraught with peril as that port is often missed.

[suzyed]

1 hour ago, startedwithamouse said:

Yeah, the topic title is very confusing. 

Ok...we booked the Discovery from LA to Vancouver (California Coastal). Next we booked the Discovery from Vancouver to Alaska, returning to Seattle after.
Booked online with Princess, gave our deposits, even chose insurance. I requested that our two bookings be transferred to my TA.  That was received by her yesterday.
Today I get a call from Princess telling me that we can't book a B2B on the same ship.

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, suzyed said:

.
Today I get a call from Princess telling me that we can't book a B2B on the same ship.

Not if you embark in one US city and disembark in a different US city without a distant foreign port stop. Distant as in a port in a different hemisphere. With only a few exceptions ( like Puerto Rico).

 

It isn't a Princess rule, it is US law 

[suzyed]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

Not if you embark in one US city and disembark in a different US city without a distant foreign port stop. Distant as in a port in a different hemisphere. With only a few exceptions ( like Puerto Rico).

 

It isn't a Princess rule, it is US law 

Right, but I kinda wish Princess didn't let me book it and gave me the information on why it can't be done. Already booked a hotel in Long Beach and was able to stop DH from booking the airfare just in time when I found this out.

[memoak]

22 minutes ago, suzyed said:

Ok...we booked the Discovery from LA to Vancouver (California Coastal). Next we booked the Discovery from Vancouver to Alaska, returning to Seattle after.
Booked online with Princess, gave our deposits, even chose insurance. I requested that our two bookings be transferred to my TA.  That was received by her yesterday.
Today I get a call from Princess telling me that we can't book a B2B on the same ship.

 Because you are sailing from LA and disembarking in Seattle. That will not work in current US laws

[reedprincess]

34 minutes ago, suzyed said:

Ok...we booked the Discovery from LA to Vancouver (California Coastal). Next we booked the Discovery from Vancouver to Alaska, returning to Seattle after.
Booked online with Princess, gave our deposits, even chose insurance. I requested that our two bookings be transferred to my TA.  That was received by her yesterday.
Today I get a call from Princess telling me that we can't book a B2B on the same ship.

So, you had two separate bookings. Booked one online. Then at a later time booked the other.. 

Then requested they be moved to your TA. 

That's when Princess caught it.

 

Be glad they caught it so quickly - usually it takes a few weeks for the compliance department to catch separate online back to back bookings that end up violating PVSA.  With the thousands and thousands of bookings being made daily, it does take time to catch two separate unrelated bookings that end up violating PVSA or any other varying laws.  Your request to have them transferred to your TA likely does the process .

 

Now you know. Can't sail between 2 different US ports, on the same foreign flagged ship, without a visit to a Distant foreign port..  if you switched ships in Vancouver, or were ending in Vancouver or some other combo, not a problem.. but lA to Seattle with no Distant Foreign Port, on the same ship, is a no go.. 

[startedwithamouse]

1 hour ago, suzyed said:

Right, but I kinda wish Princess didn't let me book it and gave me the information on why it can't be done. Already booked a hotel in Long Beach and was able to stop DH from booking the airfare just in time when I found this out.

If you booked with your TA or called Princess to book, they wouldn't let you. The two separate bookings online, nothing will immediately catch that. 

[skynight]

suzyed: As posted U.S. law will not allow you to board a non U.S. flagged vessel at one U.S. port and disembark at another U.S. port unless the ship visits a defined distant foreign port. Vancouver is a near foreign port as defined under the law. You mention that you wanted to board in L.A.  disembarking in Seattle. Work out another plan. I would not try to disembark at a port such as Victoria. That would require special permission from Princess which you may or may not be able to get. You still would not be able to book the ongoing cruise from Vancouver as the Princess system has the ship's disembarkation port as Vancouver.

You can read all the legal details by searching for the PVSA, Passenger Vessel Service Act. The act is over 100 years old.  

Edited November 30, 2023 by skynight

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, suzyed said:

Ok...we booked the Discovery from LA to Vancouver (California Coastal). Next we booked the Discovery from Vancouver to Alaska, returning to Seattle after.
Booked online with Princess, gave our deposits, even chose insurance. I requested that our two bookings be transferred to my TA.  That was received by her yesterday.
Today I get a call from Princess telling me that we can't book a B2B on the same ship.

Instead of reposting the details, you could ask the mods to retitle the thread, for instance, You cannot do a back to back from one US Port to another with Vancouver as your foreign port.

 

 

[suzyed]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:41 AM, ontheweb said:

Instead of reposting the details, you could ask the mods to retitle the thread, for instance, You cannot do a back to back from one US Port to another with Vancouver as your foreign port.

 

 

Yes we know....cancelled  both cruises!

[suzyed]

On 11/29/2023 at 11:54 PM, reedprincess said:

So, you had two separate bookings. Booked one online. Then at a later time booked the other.. 

Then requested they be moved to your TA. 

That's when Princess caught it.

 

Be glad they caught it so quickly - usually it takes a few weeks for the compliance department to catch separate online back to back bookings that end up violating PVSA.  With the thousands and thousands of bookings being made daily, it does take time to catch two separate unrelated bookings that end up violating PVSA or any other varying laws.  Your request to have them transferred to your TA likely does the process .

 

Now you know. Can't sail between 2 different US ports, on the same foreign flagged ship, without a visit to a Distant foreign port..  if you switched ships in Vancouver, or were ending in Vancouver or some other combo, not a problem.. but lA to Seattle with no Distant Foreign Port, on the same ship, is a no go.. 

Well not exactly.  I booked both online at the same time and got the same cabin on both.
It just seemed like a good idea that since we were ending our Cali cruise in Vancouver to tack an Alaska cruise on...who knew that Vancouver is not a distant foreign port?
 

And Vancouver not being a distant foreign port was the problem.  Living in Florida I consider Vancouver very distant...LOL!   
Anyway...we cancelled both of them since we decided we don't want to end up having to fly home from Vancouver.  We couldn't find another Alaska cruise that left at the same time because they told us we had to switch ships....we would have had to incur the extra charges of added hotel nights.

[chengkp75]

I know the OP has cancelled their cruise, but just as a bit of knowledge for anyone reading this thread for information about doing something similar.  To do the "get off in Victoria and rejoin the next day in Vancouver", you would need to clear your onboard portfolio and take all luggage with you when you leave the ship in Victoria.  It has to be a "permanent disembarkation" to count, so you need to settle the bill, take all your luggage, just as if you were leaving the ship normally to go home.

 

And, why Princess let the OP book the two cruises, and then notify them it was not legal, both cruises are legal by themselves, and the Princess customer service reps (and many TA's) don't understand the PVSA, so until the booking gets kicked to the "compliance department" where the lawyers check the booking, it can be done, but then compliance sends the message that the cruise is not allowed.  And, for the OP, a "far distant" port (which is the wording of the PVSA) is defined as any port not in North America, Central America, the Caribbean, Bahamas, or Bermuda.  The closest real cruise port that is "far distant" is Cartagena, Colombia, so you have to do a Panama Canal cruise.  I think that Guayaquil, Ecuador, is the closest "far distant" cruise port on the West Coast.

Edited December 2, 2023 by chengkp75