HAL evolving to a better, more modern standard.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Okay, for sure if you don't care. :) Is itOkay if some (many ? ) of us care about some of those things? :D

 

I like the old logo better. More bothersome than the change itself is how they made such a big deal about it in that awful press conference. Brand new logo TA DA! Such a dog-and-pony show.

 

So they're going to spend a lot of money on new china, new stationary, new signs? I suspect repainting the funnels will be gradual as ships go into drydock, but all the signs around have the old logo. Isn't the logo carved into the wooden benches? Will they bother to change those? It's another opportunity for HAL to be inconsistent. But you know what? 98% of the passengers won't even notice.

 

I'd prefer to see an investment in better entertainers, better crew-to-passenger ratio to improve service, things like that.

Edited July 31, 2016 by 3rdGenCunarder

[SilvertoGold]

I like the old logo better. More bothersome than the change itself is how they made such a big deal about it in that awful press conference. Brand new logo TA DA! Such a dog-and-pony show.

 

So they're going to spend a lot of money on new china, new stationary, new signs? I suspect repainting the funnels will be gradual as ships go into drydock, but all the signs around have the old logo. Isn't the logo carved into the wooden benches? Will they bother to change those? It's another opportunity for HAL to be inconsistent. But you know what? 98% of the passengers won't even notice.

 

I'd prefer to see an investment in better entertainers, better crew-to-passenger ratio to improve service, things like that.

 

Agree. The way you put it brings home the idea of "why bother". HAL must really have big plan to make huge changes.

[RuthC]

I've been watching Viking Oceans- is looking very promising. With more ships coming online looks like a nice alternative to Seabourn.

I was very interested in Viking Oceans, especially when I realized they are an "over the fence" descendent of Royal Viking Cruise Line. Then I learned that line is not very disabled friendly.

Wheelchairs are allowed, but not scooters. Without a scooter, I just can't get around on a ship.

So, until the day comes that I can comfortably walk again, that line is out.

Edited July 31, 2016 by RuthC

[RuthC]

I think the big hangup for RuthC would be that nearly all the cabins are tub/shower combinations. Perhaps that might change with an improved knee but I don't think it would work today.

You got it, Roy. A shower only is my preference.

[RuthC]

Lots of us long time HAL cruisers do care about some of the things that have made HAL unique, different, gracious and grand.

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

 

Notice that it's those of us who have been sailing a whole lot of days, over a very long period of time, on HAL that are most disappointed in the change in direction. And it's not as if we aren't still sailing! We are! Last year I sailed 80 days on HAL.

[geoherb]

ONEcan still order a cappuccino in MDR for a moderate price. No need to 'miss it. :)

Oh, he still gets one. It's just more of a hassle now that there's a charge for it. Things like this are what the phrase nickel and diming was invented for. I know Princess started charging for cappuccino in the dining room in 2003, so at least HAL took a decade to follow suit. We're infrequent HAL cruisers, so I'm not sure exactly what year they started doing so. (Next month's Amsterdam cruise will be our fifth on HAL. Our first was in 2005.)

[mame42]

Okay, for sure if you don't care. :) Is itOkay if some (many ? ) of us care about some of those things? :D

 

... another thing I care about: I love the wonderful mix of people of all ages, ethnicities, genders, and nationalities that I meet on HAL.

[dakrewser]

Can you expand on this, please? We're soon leaving on our first HAL cruise and the search for a more traditional onboard experience is what led us to give HAL a try.

 

You'll be fine, after all you can't miss what you never experienced. As Ruth said, it's those who have cruised HAL the longest that are the most upset with the changes.

 

But not all change is worse, nor is it necessarily better - it's simply change. And one area we hate to see change is in the places we go to periodically for vacation. It's not just cruise ships.

 

Where we live, change is gradual: it happens little by little every day, week, month. But the places we vacation we only see once or twice a year (admittedly, some of us cruise more often than that) so those small, daily changes add up.

 

For sure, there are things I miss that are no longer available on HAL ships (made-to-order sandwiches, table-side-prepared flaming deserts, the crew singing "Love in any language") but there are new things I've welcomed with open arms (Dive-in burgers, the Tamarind restaurant, B.B.King blues review).

 

Go with an open mind and you'll enjoy your cruise; go bemoaning the "traditions" that have been lost, and you'll be miserable.

 

Bon voyage!

[ellieanne]

I'm all for a relaxation of dress codes, especially with airlines charging so much for checked/additional baggage. And I don't have it in my budget for fancy clothes I'll wear only once or twice on cruises. It makes more sense for the cruise lines to move with the times rather than fight passengers on the dress code nightly.

 

I don't mind the dishes, as long as there are actual dishes. I haven't experienced the new dinnerware yet, but as long it's actual plates, I won't complain.

 

I haven't noticed a decrease in quality of food on my cruises, though I have noticed a decrease in choices in the Main Dining Room. I don't object to this either, as I have a real problem with food waste and too many choices can lead to waste, especially if some of the choices are not popular. There is also a theory that in today's world people suffer from a form of "option overload" and fewer choices makes things easier for everyone. I think cutting main dish offerings back to a single mammal, bird, fish and vegetarian choice each night is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

I have been complaining for years that HAL needs more quiet well-lit spaces in the evenings, but that is my complaint and obviously others prefer more of a nightlife atmosphere.

 

Overall, HAL still fits my needs and desires for a cruise vacation, even as it moves toward courting a younger audience. And let's be clear here, the younger audience is more likely to be the now aging Gen X-ers rather than the Millenials. I'm sure in future years, those Gen X-er cruises will complain about the changes to their HAL as much as the Baby Boomers are complaining today.

[Florida_gal_50]

I'm all for a relaxation of dress codes, especially with airlines charging so much for checked/additional baggage. And I don't have it in my budget for fancy clothes I'll wear only once or twice on cruises. It makes more sense for the cruise lines to move with the times rather than fight passengers on the dress code nightly.

 

I don't mind the dishes, as long as there are actual dishes. I haven't experienced the new dinnerware yet, but as long it's actual plates, I won't complain.

 

I haven't noticed a decrease in quality of food on my cruises, though I have noticed a decrease in choices in the Main Dining Room. I don't object to this either, as I have a real problem with food waste and too many choices can lead to waste, especially if some of the choices are not popular. There is also a theory that in today's world people suffer from a form of "option overload" and fewer choices makes things easier for everyone. I think cutting main dish offerings back to a single mammal, bird, fish and vegetarian choice each night is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

I have been complaining for years that HAL needs more quiet well-lit spaces in the evenings, but that is my complaint and obviously others prefer more of a nightlife atmosphere.

 

Overall, HAL still fits my needs and desires for a cruise vacation, even as it moves toward courting a younger audience. And let's be clear here, the younger audience is more likely to be the now aging Gen X-ers rather than the Millenials. I'm sure in future years, those Gen X-er cruises will complain about the changes to their HAL as much as the Baby Boomers are complaining today.

 

You can find some nice dresses these days for a reasonable price. I've purchased two dressy dresses recently for less than $100 for both and I'm fairly sure no one would be the wiser. I manage to pack them all in one suitcase and I've done this for trips of twenty days or more.

 

While I don't embrace every change hal is made I'm ok with most of them. I've sailed on hal for many, many years and have about 500 actual sea days.

[ellieanne]

You can find some nice dresses these days for a reasonable price. I've purchased two dressy dresses recently for less than $100 for both and I'm fairly sure no one would be the wiser. I manage to pack them all in one suitcase and I've done this for trips of twenty days or more.

 

While I don't embrace every change hal is made I'm ok with most of them. I've sailed on hal for many, many years and have about 500 actual sea days.

 

Yes, but there is a difference between "dressy" dresses and "formal" dresses. I don't have the need for formal wear outside of cruises, and I was thrilled with the decision to relax the standards to allow for "dressy" dresses in the main dining room. I have two very nice, easily packable dresses that I take with me. But I do not worry about formal wear any longer, and neither do the men with whom I travel. The relaxed dress code was the one best decision HAL has made recently in my opinion. And it means no more glitter! I was so tired of having my nice clothes covered in someone else's glitter, which is nearly impossible to get out, even with proper cleaning. There was still glitter from someone else's dress on one of my formal dresses when I gave it away.

[Sweettea6064]

Their new ship Koningsdam attracted me. Just made final payment! I imagine it won't be very long before the smoking policy changes. Smoking is something our parents and grandparents used to do!

 

I like that comment! We are 55 and 51 and shouldn't have to avoid a line because people are smoking. We are from and live in NC. We've both primed (picked) tobacco to make some money when we were young, and we've both watched our family die from the use of this. It's about time HAL changed. We are booked in a Neptune suite in November and are willing to give it a try. We only hope that we are as comfortable as we have been on Princess, Celebrity and NCL in the Haven.

[SilvertoGold]

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

 

Notice that it's those of us who have been sailing a whole lot of days, over a very long period of time, on HAL that are most disappointed in the change in direction. And it's not as if we aren't still sailing! We are! Last year I sailed 80 days on HAL.

 

Yes, Ruth, and we are the ones who are "wrong", apparently.

 

I keep my fingers crossed that we continue to like the HAL product.

 

Lots of changes since we started sailing 15 years ago. We've racked up a lot of days, like you, and have been pretty well pleased. Some changes seem to be little things, but their impact can be big. With prices rising considerably (for the cruises we want to do), we need to be really comfortable with the overall product. I hope we will be!

[SetAnOpenCourse]

You can find some nice dresses these days for a reasonable price. I've purchased two dressy dresses recently for less than $100 for both and I'm fairly sure no one would be the wiser. I manage to pack them all in one suitcase and I've done this for trips of twenty days or more.

 

While I don't embrace every change hal is made I'm ok with most of them. I've sailed on hal for many, many years and have about 500 actual sea days.

 

And for men, having formal nights is even less challenging, financially or otherwise. What it comes down to is a lack of flexibility. In reality, formal nights are not hard in any way for anyone on a cruise,, and, almost ironically, infuse a certain egalitarianism.

[Wakepatrol]

For instance, the dress code is now more modern. Neither jacket, tie nor tuxes are ever required. Specialty dining reservations may be made online prior to sailing. Libraries will soon only contain large format books and other publications which are not compatible with electronic readers.

 

More Modern= Dumbed Down

[SetAnOpenCourse]

I like the old logo better. More bothersome than the change itself is how they made such a big deal about it in that awful press conference. Brand new logo TA DA! Such a dog-and-pony show.

 

So they're going to spend a lot of money on new china, new stationary, new signs? I suspect repainting the funnels will be gradual as ships go into drydock, but all the signs around have the old logo. Isn't the logo carved into the wooden benches? Will they bother to change those? It's another opportunity for HAL to be inconsistent. But you know what? 98% of the passengers won't even notice.

 

I'd prefer to see an investment in better entertainers, better crew-to-passenger ratio to improve service, things like that.

 

Like a new homeowner's urge to remodel makes his ideas seem more practical and advantageous than they really are, so too the changes by new management. Luckily it is all more or less superficial, however annoying it may be; they cannot involve themselves in engineering, safety, etc.

[iancal]

There is a saying in hockey that goes something like this.. if you want to score a goal don't skate to where the puck is-skate to where the puck is going to be.

 

Hopefully HAL management plan to do this. If the current changes are simply consmetic with no improvement in the condition of existing ships, venues, food quality, service, etc then I fear that the writing will be on the wall for the HAL management team and for HAL.

 

Carnival Corp execs are no dummies. IF they see that failure to reach quarterly profit and revenue targets, or other best in class milestones is the norm rather than the exception, then they will send in some headquarters staff to 'help' the subsidiary management team.

Edited August 1, 2016 by iancal

[Wehwalt]

There is a saying in hockey that goes something like this.. if you want to score a goal don't skate to where the puck is-skate to where the puck is going to be.

 

Hopefully HAL management plan to do this. If the current changes are simply consmetic with no improvement in the condition of existing ships, venues, food quality, service, etc then I fear that the writing will be on the wall for the HAL management team and for HAL.

 

Carnival Corp execs are no dummies. IF they see that failure to reach quarterly profit and revenue targets, or other best in class milestones is the norm rather than the exception, then they will send in some headquarters staff to 'help' the subsidiary management team.

 

I'm not sure that veteran cruisers are the biggest source o profit to HAL and CCL Inc. There are only a handful of us on the Oosterdam. There are lots of younger folks who are probably more of a boost to the bottom line. My final statement, after OBC and so forth, should show a balance owed of about 10 dollars for 24 days.

[mancunian]

Has anyone here been on Seabourn.? What did you think? We are going on Odyssey in September for the first time. It seemed earlier in this thread Seabourn seemed to have bad mention. Including Ruth. Why Ruth what do you know.

 

Having started cruising in inside cabins, then moving to oceanview we now find as I spend far more time in the cabin than before a verandah is important. The trouble with HAL is that the R and S class ships that we prefer have verandahs far out of our spending power although we have been upgraded to them from oceanviews free of charge twice.

 

We have like Ruth tried Oceania, and I guess will go there more in future as do not like way HAL is progressing. But although the ship and cabins are good we do not particularly like the ambience and crew certainly not as good as HAL who are much more overworked!! Do not like Saga at all Ruth.

 

Would love to hear comments on Seabourn.

[lidojohnny]

I'm waiting for the plastic knives and spoons in the MDR. Of course, we

cannot allow tux's anymore, as it is offensive to passengers who do not

have them. Well that's the way it is going. We were recently on the Queen

Mary, at the Captain cocktail party. The Captain, gets up and tells us

where we are going. He mentions a place in Norway, then says "of course

the Trump people cannot pronounce it, they also do not know where it

is", to much laughter from the crowd, so much for Cunard.

 

I don't think a HAL Captain would be that ridiculous, but things are

a-changing, darn shame.

[Tampa Girl]

The relaxed dress code was the one best decision HAL has made recently in my opinion. And it means no more glitter! I was so tired of having my nice clothes covered in someone else's glitter, which is nearly impossible to get out, even with proper cleaning. There was still glitter from someone else's dress on one of my formal dresses when I gave it away.

 

And what makes you think there will be no more glitter? Glitter is not relegated to formal wear, and I, for one, will continue to wear tops with glitter on them. Further, formal wear, while not necessary, is not prohibited and, in fact, was never really necessary. Men could always wear suits, not tuxes; and women have always worn dressy black pants or skirts with glitter tops for formal nights.

[HUNKY]

Things are changing because a cruise line will not survive much less be profitable if someone on a 24 day cruise has a $10 balance at disembarkation. Things are changing to attract profitable guests. Those who spend the money set the rules.

[RuthC]

... so too the changes by new management. Luckily it is all more or less superficial, ....

Unfortunately, the changes I have experienced go far beyond the superficial. The changes go to the fundamental cruise experience that HAL has provided for decades, and that is fading fast. Sadly.

[RuthC]

It seemed earlier in this thread Seabourn seemed to have bad mention. Including Ruth. Why Ruth what do you know.

Oh, dear. I didn't mean to imply that I knew anything negative about Seabourn. I don't. The only thing that could be construed as negative is that I know Seabourn is a lot more expensive that Holland America.

I know the ships are smaller, but that's a positive. I have heard good things about the food (aside from that unfortunate incident several years ago). Another positive is that the CCL shareholder on-board credit would be applied!

 

I, too, am interested in reading what those who have experienced Seabourn have to say.

[mamaofami]

I seem to have missed anything about the new logo. I'm curious and where can I find a link?

 

I too miss the quiet areas, the little touches like the yum yum man, the higher quality of meat, etc. It's been a few years since I cruised, but those things weren't there then.