Bait and Switch on itinerary for upcoming cruise

[newmexicoNita]

Exactly! NCL failed in its planning and of course their paying customers will complain!

 

Just because some of you think no other port is important doesn't mean OP agrees with you!

 

According to the cruise contract NCL doesn't even need to make the canal so OP, next time when book a NCL cruise, assume it's a cruise that goes to nowhere no matter what the advertised terms say!

The point isn't whether one port is important as much as going in to orbit over 1 port in the overall picture. It is also putting things into perspective. Obvious most everyone who chooses a Panama Canal cruise is doing it based on the canal.

 

Of course, according to the contract, which BTW all cruise lines use they can do whatever they want and there would be times when it would be easy to understand a passenger being upset. But to claim something like this is bait and switch is way over the top

[newmexicoNita]

Although Cabo and Puerto Vallarta are both nice ports I have been to Ensenada twice (last time being 2 weeks ago) and it is not Comparable to the other two at all. I would stay on board in Ensenada and use the $100 on board credit to do some fun things on the ship. I will be on the 8 day Mexican Riviera on the Bliss next Friday...first stop is Ensenada so adding that as an extra day on board the ship.

I agree it is not up to the standards of Cabo or PV but I don' think it is as bad as some make it out to be. If I had never been there I probably would get off the ship and do something. The last time we were there we did a tour of the winery. Since I have been there a few times, I too would probably stay on board. I would put it in a similar category as Nassau.

[Newleno]

I'd be upset too, Ensenada is a dump. I've been on two cruises the last 2 years that stopped there and we didn't even get off. There is nothing to do there except go to an overpriced bar and be hassled by beggars. There are few tours worth doing there and the area is pretty much a ghetto. Cabo is far far better as is PV. I don't see how berthing is an issue in Cabo as all the ships anchor in the bay and tender in. I've been there when 4 ships are in the bay. Ships tenders are often used to supplement the small local tenders. Even in PV, the ships can anchor offshore and tender in. We did it once sailing on the Star. There are not many ships doing the Mexico west coast anymore so I find it hard to believe they can't find somewhere to stop other than Ensenada. There are a multitude of other ports that very few ships visit (La Paz, Manzanillo, Ixtapa etc)

 

word

[Toofarfromthesea]

This is exactly what I see on the Bliss cruise. This is a repo cruise, so it is only done once or twice a year (depending on whether the Bliss is coming back to the Caribbean or not). They booked the dock in a port, and then another line who regularly calls at that port (giving the port more money than the one off Bliss) changed their itinerary and took the berth, and so forth. Port changes, particularly in small ports, on repo cruises are quite often subject to change, and the reasons are out of the cruise line's control. Remember, until the ship actually, physically docks in the port, they have paid no money to the port, so the harbormaster can make any change he/she wants if it brings in more money to the port. Ships that do the Mexican Riviera cruise regularly will likely have a contract with all the ports along the coast, whether they actually call there or not, just to have priority on the dock space, while a repo is just a "reservation" for the dock, and there is no firm commitment from the port that a dock space will be available.

 

You always spoil the outrage with facts. Spoilsport!

[All-ready2cruise]

In winter 2013 the Epic made eastern Caribbean runs with the last day (Friday) in Nassau. It was routine. The cruise after mine in Feb 2013 missed Nassau. This was not because of weather, malfunction, or anything to do with the dock. For some unexplained reason, the Nassau port let another cruise ship dock in the same dock Epic was using every Friday. The captain told the passengers there was no explanation for this but there was no other choice but to make it a sea day. Passengers revolted with accusations it was purposely done so people would drink on the ship, etc. Cruise Critic also got an ear full how bad the last day was with overcrowding and angry passengers.

There are things that happen that are beyond NCL's control. It sucks but its the nature of cruising.

 

DH & I were on this cruise, Epic, Feb. 16-23. You're correct, there were a lot of pax upset, over missing Nassau and one reason was that the Captain was blaming Nassau or someone at NCL for not booking their regular berth.

 

I felt really badly for the couple would had arranged to do their wedding vows on the beach at Nassau... think it was at one of the hotels. I think they had their wedding party on the cruise as well.

 

Lot's of pax get upset about port changes, it's unfortunate but it definitely happens.

[CruiseGal999]

well first of all, Encanada, though not all as modern as say, Cabo, isn't bad either and it can be fun if you take the chip off your shoulder. No one is doing a bait and switch on you for no reason and you are getting a $100 OBC. I think that is pretty generous. What would you expect a cruise line, any line to do when there is a birthing problem? Go, enjoy your cruise and think about it this way: Most of the Mexican ports are so much alike it really makes no difference which ones you visit? :confused:

 

Seriously ... there is a world of difference between Puerto Vallarta and Ensenada .... this is a horrible swap.

[mdwcruises]

The point isn't whether one port is important as much as going in to orbit over 1 port in the overall picture. It is also putting things into perspective. Obvious most everyone who chooses a Panama Canal cruise is doing it based on the canal.

 

 

 

Of course, according to the contract, which BTW all cruise lines use they can do whatever they want and there would be times when it would be easy to understand a passenger being upset. But to claim something like this is bait and switch is way over the top

 

 

 

Your perspective does not dictate other people's perspective. To insinuate others who do not have the same perspective as you do as not seeing things in perspective shows exactly that it is you who lacks perspective!

[Newleno]

This is frightening!

 

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Yes how can cruise line planning experts choose a port where the ship will not fit? What else don't we know about cruise lines

[cvpends]

I'd be upset too, Ensenada is a dump. I've been on two cruises the last 2 years that stopped there and we didn't even get off. There is nothing to do there except go to an overpriced bar and be hassled by beggars. There are few tours worth doing there and the area is pretty much a ghetto. Cabo is far far better as is PV. I don't see how berthing is an issue in Cabo as all the ships anchor in the bay and tender in. I've been there when 4 ships are in the bay. Ships tenders are often used to supplement the small local tenders. Even in PV, the ships can anchor offshore and tender in. We did it once sailing on the Star. There are not many ships doing the Mexico west coast anymore so I find it hard to believe they can't find somewhere to stop other than Ensenada. There are a multitude of other ports that very few ships visit (La Paz, Manzanillo, Ixtapa etc)

If you don't bother to get off, how can you say that you are knowledgeable?

 

Actually, Ensenada has many pleasant things to do. Their wine country excursions are fun and the wineries produce surprisingly good wine, especially their malbecs. The blowhole excursion is fun because you have the opportunity to enjoy some of Ensenada's world famous fish tacos and walk through a super fun marketplace with lovely wares at decent prices. The town tours that include the casino are quite interesting. And the Ensenada tour guides, as a whole, are some of the friendliest I have encountered anywhere. If you just get off and walk through town, you will find a stained glass shop and a leather shop, both with beautiful works if art produced by the shopkeepers. I say, give Ensenada a chance; you might just love it!

 

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[mianmike]

Of course the reader infers. So helpful that you demonstrated your knowledge of the words.

 

But any reasonable person would infer from your post that NCL shouldn't communicate because people are going to complain no matter what.

 

 

Mike never said approval - you inferred that (and your inference is unreasonable, IMO).

 

By letter of the contract NCL doesn't have to explain anything, you are correct. By letter of the contract, no NCL employee needs to say anything at all to us passengers. Communication is part of customer service. Failing to communicate, whether legally obligated to or not, contributes to a negative customer experience.

 

As others have said, a lot goes into the decision to change ports. I am sure what gets communicated is part of what goes into the decision. The silence on the reason is significant.

I was just going to respond to Maniacal, but then read your response and realized you said it all.

[BirdTravels]

Yes how can cruise line planning experts choose a port where the ship will not fit? What else don't we know about cruise lines

Fake news. Just because it is on the internet does not make it true.

[newmexicoNita]

Seriously ... there is a world of difference between Puerto Vallarta and Ensenada .... this is a horrible swap.

of course PV is a nicer port. I don't think I ever said it wasn't but the point here is 2 fold: 1-Ensenada is not all that bad: the overall picture is more important than one port. Too many people make 2 much out of the small stuff. I am disappointed our next cruise changed a couple of our ports but I an not letting it bother me or dwelling on missing a port here and there. BTW, the two ports that were changed on our next cruise were 2 I have not been to and with my cruising experience that is pretty hard to imagine.

[newmexicoNita]

Your perspective does not dictate other people's perspective. To insinuate others who do not have the same perspective as you do as not seeing things in perspective shows exactly that it is you who lacks perspective!

sorry, don't agree with you but that is what these boards are all about: I still say, the overall picture is the important thing and not making a deal over 1 port. Again, this is simply how I look at it. I guess it is the old 1/ 2 full: 1/2 empty glass. BTW: of course my perspective is just that, but it doesn't mean I lack perspective. I am just stating my view on this. Is that to hard for you to understand? This is more about the OP using the term bait and switch.. What the cruise lines do if they change itineraries is certainly not bait and switch and some people make to much out of little things. Life is too short to let something like bother us.

[calmpets]

This is more about the OP using the term bait and switch.. What the cruise lines do if they change itineraries is certainly not bait and switch and some people make to much out of little things. Life is too short to let something like bother us.

If the cruise line sells an itinerary, and then extenuating circumstance force them to change it, you would be right, that isn't bait and switch. If a cruise line sells an itinerary they have no intention of doing in the first place, I can certainly see where the term bait & switch would apply. There should be some good faith that what is being sold is actually what they intend to provide.

[mdwcruises]

sorry, don't agree with you but that is what these boards are all about: I still say, the overall picture is the important thing and not making a deal over 1 port. Again, this is simply how I look at it. I guess it is the old 1/ 2 full: 1/2 empty glass. BTW: of course my perspective is just that, but it doesn't mean I lack perspective. I am just stating my view on this. Is that to hard for you to understand? This is more about the OP using the term bait and switch.. What the cruise lines do if they change itineraries is certainly not bait and switch and some people make to much out of little things. Life is too short to let something like bother us.

 

 

 

Your don't like complaint about your favorite cruise line and you said others had chips on their shoulder and insinuated others weren't seeing things "in perspective" and guess what? I don't like holier than thou people talking about what "great" attitude they have all the while lecturing other cruisers voicing their dissatisfaction with cruise lines. I will lecture them right back!

 

Your big picture is life is too short to voice dissatisfaction. Others' big pictures is life is too short to NOT to speak up and to suffer fools!

 

Is that too hard to understand?

Edited October 1, 2018 by mdwcruises

[beerman2]

If the cruise line sells an itinerary, and then extenuating circumstance force them to change it, you would be right, that isn't bait and switch. If a cruise line sells an itinerary they have no intention of doing in the first place, I can certainly see where the term bait & switch would apply. There should be some good faith that what is being sold is actually what they intend to provide.

The question is “Did they sell a cruise /itinerary with NO intention of ever going to that port”?

 

That is a little far fetched. Pretty sure ALL cruise lines have full intentions of sailing posted itineraries .

 

When itineraries are changed it is sometimes for the good/bad.

[calmpets]

The question is “Did they sell a cruise /itinerary with NO intention of ever going to that port”?

 

That is a little far fetched. Pretty sure ALL cruise lines have full intentions of sailing posted itineraries .

 

When itineraries are changed it is sometimes for the good/bad.

It's not as far-fetched as you would think. I am booked on the March 17, 2019 sailing of the Pearl. The original itinerary had both the Pearl and the Breakaway scheduled to be at Harvest Caye on the same day. Harvest Caye has no ability to house two ships, and since NCL built the port, they absolutely know this. Regardless, they have been selling these two conflicting itineraries for a year now. I received an email on Friday stating that they had notified me earlier in September of a switch to Belize City (they didn't), but that they had now re-revised the itinerary to include Harvest Caye after all by putting the ports in a different order. If you were to book the same sailing today, though, their website still reflects the original itinerary. So yes, they have no intention of sailing the posted itinerary.

[molole]

This is exactly what I see on the Bliss cruise. This is a repo cruise, so it is only done once or twice a year (depending on whether the Bliss is coming back to the Caribbean or not). They booked the dock in a port, and then another line who regularly calls at that port (giving the port more money than the one off Bliss) changed their itinerary and took the berth, and so forth. Port changes, particularly in small ports, on repo cruises are quite often subject to change, and the reasons are out of the cruise line's control. Remember, until the ship actually, physically docks in the port, they have paid no money to the port, so the harbormaster can make any change he/she wants if it brings in more money to the port. Ships that do the Mexican Riviera cruise regularly will likely have a contract with all the ports along the coast, whether they actually call there or not, just to have priority on the dock space, while a repo is just a "reservation" for the dock, and there is no firm commitment from the port that a dock space will be available.

 

Thank you so much for the great information!

 

I have a related question. I am currently looking at Joy's 2019-2020 Panama Canal sailings and they are listed as:

 

Oct 11, 2019 - full transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKLos Angeles (California); Cabo San Lucas(Mexico); Puerto Vallarta (Mexico); Mazatlan (Mexico); Puerto Quetzal(Guatemala); Puntarenas (Puerto Caldera) (Costa Rica); Oranjestad(Aruba); DISEMBARKMiami (Florida)

Oct 27, 2019 - partial transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKMiami (Florida); Great Stirrup Cay (Bahamas);Cartagena (Colombia); Panama Canal/Gatun Lake (Panama); Colon(Panama); Puerto Limon (Costa Rica); Roatan, Bay Islands (Honduras);Harvest Caye (Belize); Costa Maya (Mexico); DISEMBARKMiami (Florida)

 

Nov 8, 2019 - full transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKMiami (Florida); Great Stirrup Cay (Bahamas);Cartagena (Colombia); Puntarenas (Puerto Caldera) (Costa Rica);Puerto Quetzal (Guatemala); Mazatlan (Mexico); Puerto Vallarta(Mexico); Cabo San Lucas (Mexico); DISEMBARKLos Angeles(California)

 

Jan 17, 2020 - full transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKLos Angeles (California); Cabo San Lucas(Mexico); Mazatlan (Mexico); Puerto Vallarta (Mexico); Puerto Quetzal(Guatemala); Puntarenas (Puerto Caldera) (Costa Rica); Panama Canal/Gatun Lake (Panama); Cartagena (Colombia); DISEMBARKMiami(Florida)

Feb 2, 2020 - partial transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKMiami (Florida); Willemstad (Curacao);Kralendijk (Bonaire); Oranjestad (Aruba); Santa Marta (Colombia);Cartagena (Colombia); Panama Canal/Gatun Lake (Panama); Colon(Panama); Puerto Limon (Costa Rica); DISEMBARKMiami (Florida)

 

Feb 14, 2020 - full transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKMiami (Florida); Great Stirrup Cay (Bahamas);Cartagena (Colombia); Panama Canal/Gatun Lake (Panama);Puntarenas (Puerto Caldera) (Costa Rica); Puerto Quetzal (Guatemala);Puerto Vallarta (Mexico); Cabo San Lucas (Mexico); DISEMBARKLos Angeles (California)

 

 

As you can see they all have somewhat different ports of calls other than the canal day. So my question is: with a schedule like that, would you say NCL has a contract with the other ports, or more likely just a reservation? Maybe only the canal is contracted, but the other ports are reservations?

 

I am seriously trying to gauge whether it is more likely than usual that ports will be changed or missed on sailings like these.

 

PS, I won't hold your responsible no matter what you tell me. :p:D

Edited October 1, 2018 by molole

[TFLG]

If you don't bother to get off, how can you say that you are knowledgeable?

 

Actually, Ensenada has many pleasant things to do. Their wine country excursions are fun and the wineries produce surprisingly good wine, especially their malbecs. The blowhole excursion is fun because you have the opportunity to enjoy some of Ensenada's world famous fish tacos and walk through a super fun marketplace with lovely wares at decent prices. The town tours that include the casino are quite interesting. And the Ensenada tour guides, as a whole, are some of the friendliest I have encountered anywhere. If you just get off and walk through town, you will find a stained glass shop and a leather shop, both with beautiful works if art produced by the shopkeepers. I say, give Ensenada a chance; you might just love it!

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

 

Because I've been to Ensenada about a dozen other times. Seems you like it way more than most. It's still a dump compared to PV or Cabo. The blow hole is a joke and there are better fish tacos at Rubios. We have also done the winery trip a couple of times and ok, it's certainly better than staying in town but the wine is borderline drinkable, especially the reds. Best thing to do there is to head to Bajamar and play a round of golf. Nice course!

[YVRBassElectric]

Thank you so much for the great information!

 

I have a related question. I am currently looking at Joy's 2019-2020 Panama Canal sailings and they are listed as:

 

Oct 11, 2019 - full transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKLos Angeles (California); Cabo San Lucas(Mexico); Puerto Vallarta (Mexico); Mazatlan (Mexico); Puerto Quetzal(Guatemala); Puntarenas (Puerto Caldera) (Costa Rica); Oranjestad(Aruba); DISEMBARKMiami (Florida)

Oct 27, 2019 - partial transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKMiami (Florida); Great Stirrup Cay (Bahamas);Cartagena (Colombia); Panama Canal/Gatun Lake (Panama); Colon(Panama); Puerto Limon (Costa Rica); Roatan, Bay Islands (Honduras);Harvest Caye (Belize); Costa Maya (Mexico); DISEMBARKMiami (Florida)

 

Nov 8, 2019 - full transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKMiami (Florida); Great Stirrup Cay (Bahamas);Cartagena (Colombia); Puntarenas (Puerto Caldera) (Costa Rica);Puerto Quetzal (Guatemala); Mazatlan (Mexico); Puerto Vallarta(Mexico); Cabo San Lucas (Mexico); DISEMBARKLos Angeles(California)

 

Jan 17, 2020 - full transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKLos Angeles (California); Cabo San Lucas(Mexico); Mazatlan (Mexico); Puerto Vallarta (Mexico); Puerto Quetzal(Guatemala); Puntarenas (Puerto Caldera) (Costa Rica); Panama Canal/Gatun Lake (Panama); Cartagena (Colombia); DISEMBARKMiami(Florida)

Feb 2, 2020 - partial transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKMiami (Florida); Willemstad (Curacao);Kralendijk (Bonaire); Oranjestad (Aruba); Santa Marta (Colombia);Cartagena (Colombia); Panama Canal/Gatun Lake (Panama); Colon(Panama); Puerto Limon (Costa Rica); DISEMBARKMiami (Florida)

 

Feb 14, 2020 - full transit - CRUISE PORTS EMBARKMiami (Florida); Great Stirrup Cay (Bahamas);Cartagena (Colombia); Panama Canal/Gatun Lake (Panama);Puntarenas (Puerto Caldera) (Costa Rica); Puerto Quetzal (Guatemala);Puerto Vallarta (Mexico); Cabo San Lucas (Mexico); DISEMBARKLos Angeles (California)

 

 

As you can see they all have somewhat different ports of calls other than the canal day. So my question is: with a schedule like that, would you say NCL has a contract with the other ports, or more likely just a reservation? Maybe only the canal is contracted, but the other ports are reservations?

 

I am seriously trying to gauge whether it is more likely than usual that ports will be changed or missed on sailings like these.

 

PS, I won't hold your responsible no matter what you tell me. :p:D

 

I also appreciate chengkp75 sharing his expertise!

 

I will give my opinion of the Panama Canal in the larger ship - the new canal is smoother, prettier & uses a LOT less visible workers than the old locks but the Bliss has to stop at the cargo pier, not the cruise pier in most (maybe all), so disembarkation was further away from shopping & touristy areas. Puntarenas made me want to go back to Costa Rica - Puerto Caldera made me want to stay on the ship

[adam_s_allen]

The question is “Did they sell a cruise /itinerary with NO intention of ever going to that port”?

 

That is a little far fetched. Pretty sure ALL cruise lines have full intentions of sailing posted itineraries .

 

When itineraries are changed it is sometimes for the good/bad.

 

I can’t imagine they never intended to sail to that port and then offer everyone onboard $100 credit.

[kei2thehwy]

:)Don't take it personally. It might even be for your own safety.

:)

[newmexicoNita]

Your don't like complaint about your favorite cruise line and you said others had chips on their shoulder and insinuated others weren't seeing things "in perspective" and guess what? I don't like holier than thou people talking about what "great" attitude they have all the while lecturing other cruisers voicing their dissatisfaction with cruise lines. I will lecture them right back!

 

Your big picture is life is too short to voice dissatisfaction. Others' big pictures is life is too short to NOT to speak up and to suffer fools!

 

Is that too hard to understand?

still don't agree because of the overall attitude more than disappointed in a particular port change. Some people roll with the punches, others don't. I guess that is where we differ. I think I will just let this drop. And, as for not liking negatives about my favorite cruise line, of course you are right, but if you paid attention you would know, I have complained about NCL and some of what they have done more than once.

 

The whole point here is: what they did and all ships do which experienced cruisers know this is certainly not bait and switch. I think I will leave it at that.

[newbe dave]

Sounds like the folks who spend half their cruises at the service desk are weighing in on this post

 

 

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Don't forget that the people are in line for the service desk while they have an entire wing of chairs reserved and unused all day poolside.

 

People, if you do not like the way NCL handles their cruises or their itineraries or even their company, don't cruise NCL. I don't volunteer my money to a company that irritates me they way some of you sound. By the way, I have never cared if any of my many cruise itineraries have been updated or ports missed. I cruise to enjoy the cruise and I choose not to complain about every little thing that may occur.

[Shawnino]

By the way, I have never cared if any of my many cruise itineraries have been updated or ports missed. I cruise to enjoy the cruise and I choose not to complain about every little thing that may occur.

 

Erm, Congratulations?

 

What about the people who actually expect what as advertised?