Vision Class Being Sold?

[Clarea]

8 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Now you're getting greedy

 

I had heard talk of this (due to the Skyway bridge limitation) for years before we got interested in the area.  I've seen mention of St. Pete and Clearwater too.

[grapau27]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

2018 revenue by ship:

 

Harmony $485,570,000 - 295,000 passengers
Ovation $443,940,000 - 293,000 passengers
Allure $422,500,000 - 313,000 passengers
Oasis $403,340,000 - 307,000 passengers
Symphony $396,500,000 - 171,000 passengers
Anthem $371,150,000 - 232,000 passengers
Quantum $366,160,000 -  442,000 passengers
Explorer $318,350,000 - 122,000 passengers
Freedom $283,200,000 - 198,000 passengers
Radiance $256,910,000 - 72,000 passengers
Independence $ 256,190,000 - 210,000 passengers
Liberty $245,160,000 - 210,000 passengers
Voyager $234,480,000 - 168,000 passengers
Mariner $224,230,000 - 295,000 passengers
Adventure $219,370,000 - 175,000 passengers
Navigator $212,870,000 - 146,000 passengers
Serenade $174,410,000 - 90,000 passengers
Jewel $168,660,000 - 112,000 passengers
Brilliance $152,600,000 - 113,000 passengers
Enchantment $151,980,000 - 257,000 passengers
Rhapsody $139,520,000 - 117,000 passengers
Majesty $137,110,000 - 269,000 passengers
Vision $ 133,020,000 - 95,000 passengers
Grandeur $ 128,570,000 - 89,000 passengers
Empress $ 113,720,000 - 139,000 passengers

 

source: www.cruisemarketwatch.com

 

Vision class rank in the lowest 6 positions.  Empress/Majesty exist in the fleet due to Cuba.  Once Cuban infrastructure can accomodate larger ships they'll likely be looked at with greater scrutiny depending how Cuba as a destination works out.

 

Not all smaller ships are low revenue.  Look at Radiance in the top 10 thanks to Alaska and Australia.  Fewest passengers carried yet 10th in revenue.  

 

So the Vision question is... does the $128M Grandeur brings in or the $133M Vision brings in make it worthwhile to keep them around?  How much would they get for them?  At what point is it no longer viable to keep up with the maintenance required?

 

At some point they will leave the fleet, the only question is... when?

Very interesting, thanks for posting.

[grapau27]

23 hours ago, rattla said:

 

You can still travel on her as Marella Discovery 2 😁

And Splendour is Marella Discovery 1.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, Host Clarea said:

 

Is 15 years of age when the inspection period drops to 2.5 years?

The inspection period is always twice in 5 years.  It is just that under 15 years the inspection in the middle of the 5 year interval can be an in-water diver survey.

[Clarea]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The inspection period is always twice in 5 years.  It is just that under 15 years the inspection in the middle of the 5 year interval can be an in-water diver survey.

 

OK, thanks for the explanation.

 

Can the in-water diver inspection be done at the same time the ship is in port for a changeover day?

[chengkp75]

18 minutes ago, Host Clarea said:

 

OK, thanks for the explanation.

 

Can the in-water diver inspection be done at the same time the ship is in port for a changeover day?

Yes, it may take 2 or 3 days if done in service.

[later]

On 3/23/2019 at 8:51 AM, ssb said:

Many Ports of call are enlarging and expanding to handle the bigger ships . 

As example like Costa Maya , Grand Caymen , Cuba and many others . 

Royal is participating in funding these improvements. 

 

Is grand cayman adding a pier? If not there is no way that an oasis class will tender in.

[Clarea]

1 minute ago, later said:

Is grand cayman adding a pier? If not there is no way that an oasis class will tender in.

 

I've heard talk about a pier at Grand Cayman for years, but I don't think they have committed to a pier.

[John&LaLa]

10 minutes ago, later said:

Is grand cayman adding a pier? If not there is no way that an oasis class will tender in.

 

Local government currently accepting bids. Joint venture with Carnival, Royal, and Disney.

Design will accommodate Oasis

 

 

I'm fond of the cable car system

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by John&LaLa

[ssb]

At least three major cruise lines, including Royal Caribbean, Disney Cruise Line, and Carnival Corporation, will help finance a new pier to be built on Grand Cayman the Cayman Compass is reporting.

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Grand Cayman is one of the most popular cruise ports in the Caribbean and cruise ships currently have to run tenders to ferry passengers from the ship to the pier.  Tenders are smaller boats that can navigate the shallow waters around the port allowing cruise ships to visit.

For the past few years, Grand Cayman has been exploring different ways to eliminate the need for tendering.  The ideas included a radical cable car system and a large pier that would be able to accommodate the largest cruise ships in the world, the Oasis class from Royal Caribbean.

Carnival Corporation, Royal Caribbean, and Disney will now help finance a project to build a state-of-the art pier at the port.

Sponsored Links

The local government is currently accepting bids for the new project and a current date of completion has not yet been announced.

 

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Because cruise ships have to run tenders, they are subject to weather conditions.  During winter months, it’s not uncommon for cruise ships to cancel a visit to Grand Cayman if tendering is unsafe.

You might also like: 17 Tips When Cruising to Grand Cayman

A new pier will not only eliminate unpopular tenders, but it will allow larger cruise ships to visit the port.  Cruise lines are building a record number of mega ships with the majority of them being too large to visit Grand Cayman without a berthing facility.

[actuarian]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

2018 revenue by ship:

 

Harmony $485,570,000 - 295,000 passengers
Ovation $443,940,000 - 293,000 passengers
Allure $422,500,000 - 313,000 passengers
Oasis $403,340,000 - 307,000 passengers
Symphony $396,500,000 - 171,000 passengers
Anthem $371,150,000 - 232,000 passengers
Quantum $366,160,000 -  442,000 passengers
Explorer $318,350,000 - 122,000 passengers
Freedom $283,200,000 - 198,000 passengers
Radiance $256,910,000 - 72,000 passengers
Independence $ 256,190,000 - 210,000 passengers
Liberty $245,160,000 - 210,000 passengers
Voyager $234,480,000 - 168,000 passengers
Mariner $224,230,000 - 295,000 passengers
Adventure $219,370,000 - 175,000 passengers
Navigator $212,870,000 - 146,000 passengers
Serenade $174,410,000 - 90,000 passengers
Jewel $168,660,000 - 112,000 passengers
Brilliance $152,600,000 - 113,000 passengers
Enchantment $151,980,000 - 257,000 passengers
Rhapsody $139,520,000 - 117,000 passengers
Majesty $137,110,000 - 269,000 passengers
Vision $ 133,020,000 - 95,000 passengers
Grandeur $ 128,570,000 - 89,000 passengers
Empress $ 113,720,000 - 139,000 passengers

 

source: www.cruisemarketwatch.com

 

Vision class rank in the lowest 6 positions.  Empress/Majesty exist in the fleet due to Cuba.  Once Cuban infrastructure can accomodate larger ships they'll likely be looked at with greater scrutiny depending how Cuba as a destination works out.

 

Not all smaller ships are low revenue.  Look at Radiance in the top 10 thanks to Alaska and Australia.  Fewest passengers carried yet 10th in revenue.  

 

So the Vision question is... does the $128M Grandeur brings in or the $133M Vision brings in make it worthwhile to keep them around?  How much would they get for them?  At what point is it no longer viable to keep up with the maintenance required?

 

At some point they will leave the fleet, the only question is... when?

Thank you for this; it is fascinating.  Particularly interesting to me are the quotients I get by dividing total revenue by number of passengers (revenue per passenger).  For example, it is $3,568 for the Radiance, $2,609 for the Explorer, $828 for the Quantum and $510 for the Majesty.  I assume that this is mostly explained by the fact that longer cruises have to produce more revenue per passenger than shorter cruises.  In the case of the Majesty, the many very small rooms may also be a factor.  Nevertheless, the differences are larger than I would have expected.

[ShillyShally]

On 3/23/2019 at 7:09 AM, parrotfeathers said:

I just hope RCL continues to offer 4/5 night cruises.  I just cannot be gone 7 nights (plus one for day before arrival).

 

Agreed, I felt better after Indy that we'd only been gone 6 nights (1 night pre-cruise) +5N - easier on pups, work and wallet 🙂

[ShillyShally]

37 minutes ago, ssb said:

At least three major cruise lines, including Royal Caribbean, Disney Cruise Line, and Carnival Corporation, will help finance a new pier to be built on Grand Cayman the Cayman Compass is reporting.

Wow, very interested to follow this!  We love Grand Cayman but I'll be really curious how they build this given their reefs and how they protect them.  But I also hate tendering so we rarely get off on a cruise here but have done land based vacations there.

[ssb]

1 minute ago, ShillyShally said:

Wow, very interested to follow this!  We love Grand Cayman but I'll be really curious how they build this given their reefs and how they protect them.  But I also hate tendering so we rarely get off on a cruise here but have done land based vacations there.

I'm interested as to which side of the island the pier will be built ? If that is even a consideration ?

 

[Saab4444]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, it may take 2 or 3 days if done in service.

I found below requirements. Has this been tightened recently?

 

“As per SOLAS requirements, all Merchant vessels require a complete inspection of the hull in a dry dock twice within 5 year period and the intermediate survey must not be more than 36 months. This includes maintenance of hull, propeller, rudder etc. and other parts which are immersed in water and are normally inaccessible by ship staff at a normal sailing period.

For passenger vessel the inspection of the ship’s bottom is to be done annually. Two of such inspections in a period of five years must be carried in dry dock and the maximum interval between these inspections should be 3 years.“

[gatour]

In regards to the original question,  Carnival has utilized their smaller/older ships in ports where they can attract people in the general region.  For example, Carnival has had a ship in Jacksonville for years.  I have sailed on a couple the ships were stationed here in Jacksonville over the years.  It seems to attract a local contigent and peope within a short drive of Jacksonville, looking for a good time.  In addition there is the issue in regards to where the pier is in regards to the Dames Point Bridge, much like Tampa and Sunshine Skyway bridge.

 

However, Carnival seems to make the ship out of Jacksonville work in regards to ROI/profits and just renewed the contract with the port authority.

 

Until recently Royal did not seem interested in this type of market.  However based on some recent actions that some people have already covered, they may be rethinking this approach.

[John&LaLa]

2 hours ago, actuarian said:

Thank you for this; it is fascinating.  Particularly interesting to me are the quotients I get by dividing total revenue by number of passengers (revenue per passenger).  For example, it is $3,568 for the Radiance, $2,609 for the Explorer, $828 for the Quantum and $510 for the Majesty.  I assume that this is mostly explained by the fact that longer cruises have to produce more revenue per passenger than shorter cruises.  In the case of the Majesty, the many very small rooms may also be a factor.  Nevertheless, the differences are larger than I would have expected.

 

To many data points missing in my opinion. You need to figure in cruise days as well. Symphony is light because she is new, long drydocks like Mariner reduce revenue, etc..

 

I was surprised how many passengers for Quantum.  She must do a lot of short trips in Asia

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, ShillyShally said:

Wow, very interested to follow this!  We love Grand Cayman but I'll be really curious how they build this given their reefs and how they protect them.  But I also hate tendering so we rarely get off on a cruise here but have done land based vacations there.

 

In some ways the anchoring on some ships is messing up the reefs

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, ssb said:

I'm interested as to which side of the island the pier will be built ? If that is even a consideration ?

 

 

Picture looks like Georgetown 

[ssb]

42 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Picture looks like Georgetown 

I tend to agree. Just an observation and question. But not familiar with other side of island, where ships before have also unloaded passengers .

Thanks for response!  

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by ssb

[Merion_Mom]

Building a pier at Grand Cayman would be a crime against nature.  😡😡😡

[John&LaLa]

3 minutes ago, Merion_Mom said:

Building a pier at Grand Cayman would be a crime against nature.  😡😡😡

 

It's a big ocean

[ShillyShally]

2 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

In some ways the anchoring on some ships is messing up the reefs

That makes sense, I expect we might see some next gen pier that will start being adopted in the future.

[ShillyShally]

1 hour ago, Merion_Mom said:

Building a pier at Grand Cayman would be a crime against nature.  😡😡😡

I agree if it's simply for revenue, but if it's to better preserve the island then it may be the best solution.  I don't expect it to increase the size of ship though that can visit the island - likely just increase the probability ships can continue to visit.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

I found below requirements. Has this been tightened recently?

 

“As per SOLAS requirements, all Merchant vessels require a complete inspection of the hull in a dry dock twice within 5 year period and the intermediate survey must not be more than 36 months. This includes maintenance of hull, propeller, rudder etc. and other parts which are immersed in water and are normally inaccessible by ship staff at a normal sailing period.

For passenger vessel the inspection of the ship’s bottom is to be done annually. Two of such inspections in a period of five years must be carried in dry dock and the maximum interval between these inspections should be 3 years.“

While I see the quote you give in "marine insight", I know of no IMO or SOLAS requirement for drydocking passenger vessels twice in 5 years, if they are less than 15 years old.  I know of no Class society that requires this as part of their rules for shipbuilding.  Even the US Code of Regulations allows for a "UWILD" (Underwater Inspection in Lieu of Drydock), and the US regulations are typically more stringent than the international requirements.