Toddler Death Law Suit Update

[mjkacmom]

8 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Right.  But if you read the post I quoted, that poster said the family would have to pay the lawyer for all of his costs if they withdraw the suit.  I truly hope that's not the case.

I believe this is a contingency fee law firm, they get paid nothing if they don’t win.

[boscobeans]

7 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

I believe this is a contingency fee law firm, they get paid nothing if they don’t win.

But what if the client drops the case, could the lawyer ask for payment??  If not there could be a lot of shady settlements between the parties...

 

[mjkacmom]

9 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

But what if the client drops the case, could the lawyer ask for payment??  If not there could be a lot of shady settlements between the parties...

 

I think it depends on their contract. However, after doing some reading, stopping the lawsuit could open them up to being sued by RCL..

[SRF]

10 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

But what if the client drops the case, could the lawyer ask for payment??  If not there could be a lot of shady settlements between the parties...

 

 

It would depend on the contract they signed.

 

And slimy lawyers can write slimy contracts.

 

I recall one occupational case where 5 fire fighters sued over smoke inhalation injuries.   They won there case at something like $5 million.  They ended up splitting $125K and the lawyer got the rest.  They ended up suing the lawyer.

 

The contract they signed was for the lawyer to get 40%.  Plus, they would pay for all the lawyer's time and paralegal and other expenses.  So the lawyer got his normal profit PLUS 40% of the judgement.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by SRF

[tonit964]

10 hours ago, Cafedumonde said:

Wow, this video is incredible.  The step grandfather actually leaned out the window himself for a significant amount of time, then held her over the side for about thirty seconds before he lost his grip.  I cannot believe this video.  This lawsuit will be thrown out.  The step grandfather is lucky that he is not in jail.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7903215/Video-grandfather-dangled-toddler-Royal-Caribbean-window-THIRTY-SECONDS.html#article-7903215

I noticed in this video, on the way to the window, the GF stops at that pillar and crouches down for several seconds, it appears he has his head in his hands. I wonder what that was all about, like was he planning on doing this? Weird.

[Another_Critic]

So when is GF / parent's / lawyer's story going to change that GF was intoxicated and RC is liable for serving GF?

[twangster]

Let's write the narrative instead of using the attorney's version.

 

The child was allowed to wander into a bar seating area where adults were consuming alcohol.  The child leaned on the glass at floor level looking through the glass.  The defendant picked up the child and placed the child over the railing in violation of the ship's guest conduct policy so that the child could see through the open window.  After thirty four seconds the defendant was preparing to lower the child back to the ground when he lost his grip of the child at which point the child fell to the dock below. 

[twangster]

1 hour ago, tonit964 said:

I noticed in this video, on the way to the window, the GF stops at that pillar and crouches down for several seconds, it appears he has his head in his hands. I wonder what that was all about, like was he planning on doing this? Weird.

 

Only GF knows.  He could have been playing peek-a-boo.  We just don't know.

[Two Wheels Only]

9 minutes ago, twangster said:

The defendant picked up the child and placed the child over the railing in violation of the ship's guest conduct policy so that the child could see through the open window.  After thirty four seconds the defendant was preparing to lower the child back to the ground when he lost his grip of the child at which point the child fell to the dock below. 

 

Anello actually extended the child past the railing and past the window sill. Anello was leaning on the railing himself and the child was further out when she fell. 

[bobmacliberty]

I'm not a lawyer but if the lawsuit is not dismissed based on this video, I think Royal has a couple of options:

1. Continue the litigation, ultimately believing that they will be shown to be innocent/not negligent (insert the correct legal term here).  That will involve potentially large legal fees and will keep this story in the news (continued negative PR)

2. Settle out of court with no admission of guilt, so that everyone can put this behind them.

 

Many here (me included) probably would like to see option 1.  From a pure business perspective, I could see Royal choosing option 2.  Managing public relations may be the primary concern at this point. 

 

I don't fault the family for any of their actions after losing their daughter.  I can't imagine how I would handle such a tragedy.  The desire to understand how this could have happened/blame someone must still be very strong.  That could change with time.

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, tonit964 said:

I noticed in this video, on the way to the window, the GF stops at that pillar and crouches down for several seconds, it appears he has his head in his hands. I wonder what that was all about, like was he planning on doing this? Weird

 

From his body language, nothing seemed unusual. He and the child seem to be fine. When the large woman in the flower dress walks by, the child heads to the window and Anello follows. I saw nothing planned. 

[S.A.M.J.R.]

1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

It would depend on the contract they signed.

 

And slimy lawyers can write slimy contracts.

 

I recall one occupational case where 5 fire fighters sued over smoke inhalation injuries.   They won there case at something like $5 million.  They ended up splitting $125K and the lawyer got the rest.  They ended up suing the lawyer.

 

The contract they signed was for the lawyer to get 40%.  Plus, they would pay for all the lawyer's time and paralegal and other expenses.  So the lawyer got his normal profit PLUS 40% of the judgement.

 

 

I am by no means an expert, but just reading some fiction (John Grisham comes to mind), that's how I would expect a contract to be done... contingency PLUS expenses.  Which still means if they lose the case, the lawyer gets nothing and the client is out no money.

 

But would it be "normal" for a contract to be written so the client has to pay for lawyer's expenses if they decide to drop the case?  

[goldfish65]

Morbid curiosity got the best of me; watched the interview videos, all three are giving a performance.

Edited January 19, 2020 by goldfish65

[S.A.M.J.R.]

5 minutes ago, bobmacliberty said:

I'm not a lawyer but if the lawsuit is not dismissed based on this video, I think Royal has a couple of options:

1. Continue the litigation, ultimately believing that they will be shown to be innocent/not negligent (insert the correct legal term here).  That will involve potentially large legal fees and will keep this story in the news (continued negative PR)

2. Settle out of court with no admission of guilt, so that everyone can put this behind them.

 

Many here (me included) probably would like to see option 1.  From a pure business perspective, I could see Royal choosing option 2.  Managing public relations may be the primary concern at this point. 

 

I don't fault the family for any of their actions after losing their daughter.  I can't imagine how I would handle such a tragedy.  The desire to understand how this could have happened/blame someone must still be very strong.  That could change with time.

I would think if they were worried about costs and negative PR, they would have settled the case already.  The fact they've filed/posted a response (whatever they did a day or two ago), along with the content of that, makes me think they're going to fight (which yes, I hope they do).

 

[twangster]

12 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

Anello actually extended the child past the railing and past the window sill. Anello was leaning on the railing himself and the child was further out when she fell. 

 

I couldn't see that in the video myself, it's over exposed so I choose not to insert unknown facts, unlike the attorney.  

 

10 minutes ago, bobmacliberty said:

I don't fault the family for any of their actions after losing their daughter.  I can't imagine how I would handle such a tragedy.  The desire to understand how this could have happened/blame someone must still be very strong.  That could change with time.

 

I've never been placed in this situation so it's easy to think how I'd react but I acknowledge there is a loss of reasoning when tragedy strikes and the brain works in unusual ways.  Me - I would want to know facts.  I'd be watching the video, I'd be challenging my father-in-law.  If I was a police officer (like the father) who has seen all sorts of human behavior I would have a thirst for the truth and facts.  I wouldn't accept "I didn't know there was a window" from my FIL.  I would be saying everything that everyone here has said. "What were you thinking?"

Edited January 19, 2020 by twangster

[Two Wheels Only]

Just now, twangster said:

I couldn't see that in the video myself, it's over exposed so I choose not to insert unknown facts, unlike the attorney. 

 

It's easy to see in the "side view" video. I've had the video saved on my computer for a month and have watched them several times. I can view full screen, pause, etc. in VLC. People watching the video online might not see the details that I describe but they are there. 

[bobmacliberty]

2 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

I would think if they were worried about costs and negative PR, they would have settled the case already.  The fact they've filed/posted a response (whatever they did a day or two ago), along with the content of that, makes me think they're going to fight (which yes, I hope they do).

 

 

I think you're probably right.  For major public corporations though, things eventually come down to money.  Fighting has a cost/benefit.

 

2 minutes ago, twangster said:

I've never been placed in this situation so it's easy to think how I'd react but I acknowledge there is a loss of reasoning when tragedy strikes and the brain works in unusual ways.  Me - I would want to know facts.  I'd be watching the video, I'd be challenging my father-in-law.  As a police officer who has seen all sorts of human behavior I would have a thirst for the truth and facts.  I wouldn't accept "I didn't know there was a window" from my FIL.  I would be saying everything that everyone here has said. "What were you thinking?"

 

I'm a logical thinking engineer who is less emotional about things (just ask my wife) and I think I'd also be looking for the truth and would not accept the GF story.  As I've gotten older, I've learned that not everyone is blessed with thinking the way that I do. 😁

[hal2008]

Videos posted recently are subset of video posted originally by La Comay show on Channel 4 WAPA TV in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

 

That was 30 days ago.

 

I guess recent avalanche of posts are due to English media picking it up 2 days ago after RCL PR firm did an aggressive distribution in conjugation with their motion to dismiss the case.

[barb65]

In Royal Caribbean's detailed policy/restrictions is the following:

 

Unsafe Behavior

Sitting, standing, laying or climbing on, over or across any exterior or interior railings or other protective barriers, or tampering with ship’s equipment, facilities or systems designed for guest safety is not permitted. Guests may not enter or access any area that is restricted and for the use of crew members. Any other unsafe behavior, including failure to follow security instructions, is not permitted.

 

My personal opinion, I think the above policy was violated. Too many people don't read the fine print of RC's policies/restrictions before their cruise.

[cello56]

I would think that RCI also has video footage of the side of the ship from the outside. When we have done bridge tours, the wings that stick out give you a view all the way down the side of the ship until you come to the cantilever hot tubs. I'm sure there are cameras on the other end too. This kind of video would give a complete view of what happened. 

 

[adventuredancer]

you know RCL is really confident in their position that they are innocent since they released a statement saying that the reason the poor child isn't with us anymore is solely the responsibility of the GF. no large corporation would ever say so blatantly if they were somewhat wrong. the PR backlash that would occur if any video surfaced that showed them a little bit responsible would be insane.

unless you want to argue that RCL is to blame because they don't give out common sense tests to all their guests to know which ones are allowed on board

[BND]

6 hours ago, twangster said:

Let's write the narrative instead of using the attorney's version.

 

The child was allowed to wander into a bar seating area where adults were consuming alcohol.  The child leaned on the glass at floor level looking through the glass.  The defendant picked up the child and placed the child over the railing in violation of the ship's guest conduct policy so that the child could see through the open window.  After thirty four seconds the defendant was preparing to lower the child back to the ground when he lost his grip of the child at which point the child fell to the dock below. 

You left out the part where the step grandfather leaned out the window before picking up the child.

[BND]

5 hours ago, bobmacliberty said:

 

I think you're probably right.  For major public corporations though, things eventually come down to money.  Fighting has a cost/benefit.

 

 

I'm a logical thinking engineer who is less emotional about things (just ask my wife) and I think I'd also be looking for the truth and would not accept the GF story.  As I've gotten older, I've learned that not everyone is blessed with thinking the way that I do. 😁

Yeah, I'm a logical woman (yes we do exist, just ask my DH).  I do not go to emotion which other women don't get.  Personally, I wouldn't be defending family blindly.  I would definitely  be questioning my step father in law and looking at the facts.  RCI has a very strong case and the lawyer knows it which is why he wants the video removed.  

[PhoenixCruiser]

I have no interest in looking at the pictures or videos.

 

It is a horrible situation and my heart aches for the family.

[TNcruising02]

I felt a lot of sympathy for the grandfather before I saw the video.  As a parent, it would be very hard to forgive a relative who actually dangled my child out of a window and accidentally dropped them.  Before seeing the video, I figured he knew it was open and lifted the child up to see better.  Negligent for sure, but definitely a horrible accident.  However, if he actually put any of that child's body out the window, that's something that I don't think I could ever forgive if it were my child.

I am shocked that the parents filed the lawsuit when they had to have known from the video that he put their child outside the window frame.  To blame Royal is simply dishonest.  I think the grandfather should accept a plea deal and the parents should drop their dishonest lawsuit.