Yikes! Over age 70 passengers need doctor’s note (Merged threads)

[yorky]

2 hours ago, yorky said:

Certainly a meaningful percentage with regard to Celebrity. If however they start refusing boarding for something like Asthma regardless of how severe it is that’s one in six people in the UK. The US has 25 million people with Asthma then they really have a problem with all age groups. I’m 58 and have had mild Asthma more or less all of my life. I’m fit, don’t own a car, and cycle everywhere including to work and back. I could probably outrun many individuals in their 30/40s but would not be allowed to cruise.

 

1 hour ago, travelordie said:

You'll be pleased to know that preliminary results from New York, as the state released data last week on the top 10 chronic health problems suffered by people who died from COVID-19,  showed that asthma was notably absent, i.e., not even in the top 10.  After old age, which was in the top 10, the most significant factor predicting that COVID-19 infection would lead to hospitalization was obesity.  Here's the reference:

 

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/understanding-covid-19-data-continues-to-reveal-surprising-truths-mysterious-clues-and-comforting-facts-about-virus/

 

Since you are only 58 years old and asthma is not even in the top 10 list of factors, you have nothing to worry about as long as you don't suffer from obesity.

 

 

I’m actually not worried about myself to be honest it’s really how Celebrity react to this and if they go overboard with the conditions. As a very mild Asthmatic I am not classed as high risk in the UK, you have to be on a mix of control meds to be classified at risk over here and the stats appear to show that’s the case. However Celebrity may just have a blanket judgement regardless of the condition. When cruises do resume they need to get the details in order, it’s not there at the moment.

[travelordie]

54 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

The CLIA and its member cruise lines rely on the advice and expertise of the CDC, which assesses moderate to severe asthma as one of the underlying medical conditions for people who are at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19. While the preliminary information reported by the New York Times might suggest otherwise, this single-source data needs to be analyzed in conjunction with data obtained from multiple sources before the CDC is likely to change its current assessment.

I totally agree and that's why I used the word preliminary in describing the initial conclusions.  

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, travelordie said:

I totally agree and that's why I used the word preliminary in describing the initial conclusions.  

Which was an excellent point. 👍 Since the onset of COVID-19, we've seen all too many people making conclusions based on the flimsiest bits and pieces of information.  

Edited April 26, 2020 by Fouremco

[kathy49]

 

 

fit to travel physician's form - Celebrity Cruises

www.celebritycruises.com › physician-fit-to-sail-form

 

1.  

 

I am trying to understand how many cruise passengers over age 70  could get a doctor to sign this form.  Most people of a "certain age" have some chronic conditions which are ideally managed with lifestyle and/or drugs.  I know my doctor would not sign this even though I am just fine to travel anywhere I wish in the world by air and land.  Any thoughts on this? Also while there has always been a clause in the contract about missed ports they now have a more enhanced agreed to statement about this possibility as too many found themselves without ports in the last months and that could continue.  Port availability can change in a minute whether for health reasons or weather.

Edited April 29, 2020 by kathy49
link

[Bo1953]

No thoughts about it at all.

 

I recommend that one waits before cancelling or booking to know if this requirement is still in place, otherwise needless worry IMO!

 

One needs to understand the who, what, when, where and why this was in place, if not, then continue to worry and prognosticate about 'who and what'.

 

If this is worrisome, then please cancel so it is no longer, along with other issues one may have about 'previous' policies in place due to the pandemic.

 

There are few other threads including threads within threads addressing this and similar concerns.

 

In health and bon voyage

Edited April 29, 2020 by Bo1953

[shipshape sam]

12 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

No thoughts about it at all.

 

I recommend that one waits before cancelling or booking to know if this requirement is still in place, otherwise needless worry IMO!

 

One needs to understand the who, what, when, where and why this was in place, if not, then continue to worry and prognosticate about 'who and what'.

 

If this is worrisome, then please cancel so it is no longer, along with other issues one may have about 'previous' policies in place due to the pandemic.

 

There are few other threads including threads within threads addressing this and similar concerns.

 

In health and bon voyage

So, what are the who, what, when, where and why?

 

 

[Bo1953]

2 minutes ago, shipshape sam said:

So, what are the who, what, when, where and why?

The policy makers and directives which caused these policies to be put in place, mainly (here in the U.S.) the CDC, CLIA and other local and health entities who have the 'power' to shut down or open up leisure sailing again.

 

X and other cruise lines did not wake up one morning and decide 'this would be a great policy to institute' ....

 

In health and bon voyage

[omeinv]

1 hour ago, kathy49 said:

 

 

fit to travel physician's form - Celebrity Cruises

www.celebritycruises.com › physician-fit-to-sail-form

 

  I know my doctor would not sign this even though I am just fine to travel anywhere I wish in the world by air and land.  Any thoughts on this?

You say you "know" your doctor would not sign a fit to travel letter.  Have you asked?  Many here on Cruise Critic seem to  presume that getting a doctor's certificate they are fit to travel would be difficult.  In fact doctors routinely certify patients as fit to participate in an activity, despite some chronic condition.  This ranges from children's sports physicals, on through all sorts of things for people of every age. 

 

You're correct that many people over 70 - indeed likely most- have a "chronic" condition, since that simply means some long-developing, ongoing medical issue, rather than an acute condition.  If there's a prescription medication one takes daily, and the presumption is will continue to do so indefinitely, that would be treatment of a "chronic condition.  Of course a person could also have a chronic condition for which they are not taking medication. 

 

As a scuba instructor, I deal with medical releases routinely; and often for those over 70.  People disclose their medical history, including specific conditions of concern.  If there is any concern whatsoever (If they answer "yes" that they have any one of about 50 conditions), their doctor reviews it in light of the activity, and 95 times out of a hundred, their doctor signs off the person may dive.  The remaining times?  If the person feels their doctor didn't clear them when they should, they see a specialist, who reviews it.  A doctor reviewing an activity, in light of an individual patient's history, and opining they can safely participate is literally an everyday occurrence.  It's hardly an insurmountable burden, and the presentation of this requirement as something unduly onerous is hardly warranted.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

Edited April 29, 2020 by omeinv

[Ravbo]

During a recent physical exam I mentioned the possible need of him signing this letter if it is still required when we have a cruise. (my doctor is also an avid cruises).

He said he would have no problem signing the letter.

Bob

[kathy49]

4 minutes ago, omeinv said:

You say you "know" your doctor would not sign a fit to travel letter.  Have you asked?  Many here on Cruise Critic seem to  presume that getting a doctor's certificate they are fit to travel would be difficult.  In fact doctors routinely certify patients as fit to participate in an activity, despite some chronic condition.  This ranges from children's sports physicals, on through all sorts of things for people of every age. 

 

You're correct that many people over 70 - indeed likely most- have a "chronic" condition, since that simply means some long-developing, ongoing medical issue, rather than an acute condition.  If there's a prescription medication one takes daily, and the presumption is will continue to do so indefinitely, that would be treatment of a "chronic condition.  Of course a person could also have a chronic condition for which they are not taking medication. 

 

As a scuba instructor, I deal with medical releases routinely.  People disclose their medical history, including specific conditions of concern.  If there is any concern whatsoever (If they answer "yes" that they have any one of about 50 conditions), their doctor reviews it in light of the activity, and 95 times out of a hundred, they sign off the person may dive.  The remaining times?  If the person feels their doctor didn't clear them when they should, they see a specialist, who reviews it.  A doctor reviewing an activity, in light of an individual patient's history, and opining they can safely participate is literally an everyday occurrence.  It's hardly an insurmountable burden, and the presentation of this requirement as something unduly onerous is hardly warranted.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

you make good points...in a general conversation he said no but maybe room for discussion.  I have no cruise planned in the near future so that is okay. It will clearly be up to the medical professional...the language "

which would make this patient susceptible to complications arising after infection with the Novel Coronavirus (2019- nCoV)/COVID-19. "  is very broad and given the "experts" are still learning about  how existing conditions interact with the virus...it is a stretch to be able to sign off.

[TeeRick]

There are literally a thousand posts on this very topic with no answer.  So why start yet another one?  Or at least merge with the YIKES over 70 thread.

[kathy49]

4 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

There are literally a thousand posts on this very topic with no answer.  So why start yet another one?  Or at least merge with the YIKES over 70 thread.

My apologies and sorry to have posted another. I do not know how to merge or  delete this all together.  Again very sorry and if someone can remove it please do. Topics deeply embedded in other threads do not pop up in a search for me but again not experienced on this forum

Edited April 29, 2020 by kathy49

[alwaysonaship]

Personally I don’t think it matters. No one is going to be cruising for a very long time.

[TeeRick]

17 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

My apologies and sorry to have posted another. I do not know how to merge or  delete this all together.  Again very sorry and if someone can remove it please do. Topics deeply embedded in other threads do not pop up in a search for me but again not experienced on this forum

Sorry nothing personal if I came across too harshly.  This topic has been well discussed.  I was directly my merge thread remark to the CC moderators, not to you.

[kathy49]

2 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Sorry nothing personal if I came across too harshly.  This topic has been well discussed.  I was directly my merge thread remark to the CC moderators, not to you.

no big deal....

[markeb]

1 hour ago, kathy49 said:

you make good points...in a general conversation he said no but maybe room for discussion.  I have no cruise planned in the near future so that is okay. It will clearly be up to the medical professional...the language "

which would make this patient susceptible to complications arising after infection with the Novel Coronavirus (2019- nCoV)/COVID-19. "  is very broad and given the "experts" are still learning about  how existing conditions interact with the virus...it is a stretch to be able to sign off.

 

1 hour ago, kathy49 said:

My apologies and sorry to have posted another. I do not know how to merge or  delete this all together.  Again very sorry and if someone can remove it please do. Topics deeply embedded in other threads do not pop up in a search for me but again not experienced on this forum

 

The previously merged thread has slipped down quite a bit, so wouldn't be obvious if you weren't following it before. The moderators will likely merge this in, but I think you've got what answers can help you already.

 

If you don't have a cruise scheduled, there's no "real" answer. Some have reported no issues; some have reported "no way". The risk factors continue to evolve, and some of the "no issues" may change their minds. No one's cruising, and to the best of my knowledge given the timing of the policy, no one has cruised under this policy. If you had a cruise coming up on final payment, I would have suggested an early conversation with your physician, as if they were inclined to "no", you might want to consider cancelling for now. But if you don't, I really don't believe there's a real answer to your question at this point.

 

The diving example is a good example where there's well established history and parameters, going all the way back to military and professional diving extended to recreational diving. Every other day right now there's another interim report with another look at a potential risk factor contributing to hospitalization and death from COVID-19. Ultimately some, if not many, of those will prove to not be statistically significant, and others that aren't getting discussed that will be. It's only been 6 months...

 

 

[Fouremco]

15 minutes ago, markeb said:

The diving example is a good example where there's well established history and parameters, going all the way back to military and professional diving extended to recreational diving. Every other day right now there's another interim report with another look at a potential risk factor contributing to hospitalization and death from COVID-19. Ultimately some, if not many, of those will prove to not be statistically significant, and others that aren't getting discussed that will be. It's only been 6 months...

A good example is asthma. Although moderate to severe Asthma is still listed by the CDC as a high risk factor for COVID-19 complications, recent data on the top 10 underlying chronic health problems suffered by people who died from coronavirus in New York State, asthma was notably absent from the list. Only about five percent of Covid-19 deaths in New York were of people who were known to also have asthma.

[BEAV]

The best way to get a Moderator’s attention is to hit “report post” at the top right hand corner of any post. It will open a box where you can suggest to a Moderator to merge with an existing thread on the same subject. 

 

 

[kathy49]

Also...at least here in USA Doctors have enough to worry about in terms of liability issues and insurance.  Another reason I have to wonder how many would be quick to sign off on this. Lots has changed in the last months.

[Essiesmom]

I don't think that is the original form that X put out in a hurry in mid-March.  I was due to sail on March 15, the restriction was to take effect on March 16.  But I took it in to my doc on the 13th and though I didn't see him, he sent it back with the nurse with the 'diabetes' circled.  We are both over 70.  As it turned out, the cruise was cancelled.  But I think there might be an out on it for us due to the autoimmunity statement.  But I think they are going to be reassessing the risk factors.  I have read that the most common complication for people who had a very hard time with COVID-19 was obesity, which also compromises the immune system.  And Obesity is not mentioned at all.  EM

[llawrence]

It appears. RCL has removed the requirement for the doctors note.....That is from Elliott Forums.....a non-profit consumer advocacy group......

[llawrence]

Still trying to confirm the accuracy of the email

[ABoatNerd]

Well in Canada, I have no doctor cause there are no doctors accepting patients (my doctor retired). In Ontario over 25% of the citizens have no family doctor. So none of these folks could get a certificate or any other valid assessment of one's health.

 

Please do not assume everyone could get a health assessment.

 

 

[llawrence]

It seems that Royal has changed the wording on their travel advisory.....hope Celebrity follows

[CHEZMARYLOU]

I saw the following on another social media site: "no more doctor’s note for guests over 70 is needed- per CLIA" posted by a TA.