No cruising until a vaccine?

[cruisinfanatic]

1 hour ago, mugtech said:

VP Pence just said only people with symptoms should be tested.  Not a formula for success.  Glad he tested negative.  Did not realize he had symptoms.

He doesn't. Many get the test because they were near someone testing positive

[Starry Eyes]

1 minute ago, AdoraBelle said:

NY has actually had to stop testing people without serious symptoms not for lack of tests, but because they don’t have enough PPE for the people taking the swabs. Which is insane.

Actually, I can totally understand that.  The whole world wants more PPE right now, so demand is just sky high.  Not just herein the US, but  everywhere in a short time.  And if supplies start to run low, they must make sure they prioritize keeping adequate amounts of PPE for acute care, first responders, and those screening those with serious symptoms.  Hopefully, the NY screening centers will be resupplied soon.  

[AdoraBelle]

1 minute ago, Starry Eyes said:

Actually, I can totally understand that.  The whole world wants more PPE right now, so demand is just sky high.  Not just herein the US, but  everywhere in a short time.  And if supplies start to run low, they must make sure they prioritize keeping adequate amounts of PPE for acute care, first responders, and those screening those with serious symptoms.  Hopefully, the NY screening centers will be resupplied soon.  

For clarity, I mean it’s insane that we don’t have PPE for first responders when we’ve known about this threat since January.

Edited March 23, 2020 by AdoraBelle

[mugtech]

52 minutes ago, cruisinfanatic said:

He doesn't. Many get the test because they were near someone testing positive

He said no one should be tested unless they have symptoms, just pointing out he did not follow his own advice.

[cruiselvr04]

I'm guessing some of our PPE is made on China....which has had factories closed.  

 

I'm a nurse in a large hospital.   We're rationing PPE ....for now not for covid but other isolation patients. So reusing a paper cover gown for many trips into a patient room isolated for MRSA.  Limiting the number of people in an OR to conserve masks. Of course all elective surgeries canceled to save PPE.  Our patients are safe.   But staff are not allowed to use PPE at our discretion which makes us anxious.  This is the new normal for us and things literally change everyday. I've been a nurse for 42 years and this is my first pandemic.  Its anxiety producing just to walk into work. The sooner this is over the better.  I'm very scared of bringing it home to my husband. If something happened to him because of my profession I'm not sure I'd get over it. 

 

As to the topic....I'm sure as a health care professional we'll be some of the first for a vaccine.  I'd like them to get it right!  I just want to get back on a ship with a book and drink and relax again. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by cruiselvr04

[DandDM]

4 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Myself, I want to see church services shut down. Pray at home, or get a service on tv. I'm tired of hearing how many rules dont apply to them, and it's not just on tv, it's my brother in law too. "God will take care of us" . .well then quit visiting my parents 

This is the best advise I've seen in a bit; cheers!

[firefly333]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Not that it means anything ...

Turns out this time they are serious, churches too

 

The thing that surprised me, even if you have a essential job, you cannot cross county lines, so a nurse living near me who works at a plano hospital, 7 to 10 miles away, cannot leave the county to drive to work.

[Hoopster95]

21 minutes ago, cruiselvr04 said:

I'm a nurse in a large hospital.   

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who thanks you for who you are and everything you do. 

Would love to see you hang around these forums over the next weeks as someone on the front line actually seeing things first hand.

[GetToLivin]

Since a vaccine could be a ways off, looks like there could be some promise using antimalarial drugs along with other antibacterial drugs. I heard during the press conference tonight that this combination was going to begin getting used in NY, perhaps beginning on Tuesday. If this is successful, I think it would help settle everything down. At least people would have a fight in the game. Hopefully we'll know more by the end of next week regarding if it's helping people or not.

 

Here's the article, I know other news outlets have written about it as well:

 

https://www.foxnews.com/science/french-researchers-publish-antimalarial-and-antibiotics-combination-that-could-shorten-covid-19

Edited March 23, 2020 by GetToLivin

[bobmacliberty]

Ohio added to the list of mandatory "stay at home" states, effective midnight tonight.  Ohio is also putting restrictions on dispensing malaria medications (presumably as potential drugs to fight Covid-19).  According to the Governor, "there has been a huge uptick in prescriptions of these drugs...". I would have thought that the prescription system would have enough restrictions already built in.  Guess not.

[AdoraBelle]

9 hours ago, cruiselvr04 said:

I'm guessing some of our PPE is made on China....which has had factories closed.  

 

Most of it is made in China. Factories are back up and making masks all over Asia, including China. They are just using them domestically or sending them to places like Italy and Spain. Maybe we could get more if our POTUS would stop calling it the 'Chinese Virus'.

 

But anyway, we do have at least one 3M factory in South Dakota that is supposed to ramp up this week. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/22/masks-ppe-3m-coronavirus/

[Bradison]

49 minutes ago, AdoraBelle said:

 

Maybe we could get more if our POTUS would stop calling it the 'Chinese Virus'.

 

But anyway, we do have at least one 3M factory in South Dakota that is supposed to ramp up this week. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/22/masks-ppe-3m-coronavirus/

 

Weak sauce.

 

3M will knock it out of the park.  Hear the can make over 1 million per day when fully cooking.

 

[Mallefiscent]

On 3/22/2020 at 3:32 PM, Hoopster95 said:

 

Agreed.... con't be done. Infections are going to happen everywhere.

 

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

So far, the new coronavirus has led to more than 220,000 illnesses and more than 9,300 deaths worldwide. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has caused an estimated 36 million illnesses, 370,000 hospitalizations and 22,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). 

 

"nothing compared to the flu"? Seriously???

Flu:  36 million / 22,000 deaths = .06% mortality rate   (0.6 out of every 1000 people)

COVID19:  220,000 illnesses / 9,300 deaths = 4.2% mortality rate (42 out of every 1000 people)

 

Again, direct CDC facts, not fiction.

So let's get 1 million Americans tested... at 4.2% mortality means 42,000 people.

You can't really compare covid numbers to the flu.   During flu season, everyone with even minor symptoms gets tested, because there is a medication that can be given if you are positive for the flu.

 

People with minor covid 19 symptoms are not being tested.   A lot of them don't even go to a doctor.  This skews the numbers to make it appear to be more deadly that it is.  You can't compare apples to oranges. 

[young_ens]

12 hours ago, irzero said:

No proof this virus mutated at all. It jumped species. Just like Ebola did from a bat.

Spanish flu went away with immunity. The reason flu comes back is because the human variants mutate quickly to avoid our immune systems.

A bird flu killed 60% of all infected and didnt spread or mutate

 

There's been two identified types: L-type and an S-type.   

https://doi.org/10.1093/nsr/nwaa036

 

Time will tell if the initial results are ok or not.    Spanish flu went away after a while, not before killing 100,000 people.  And ater infecting 1/3 of the world, one would hope enough immunity was built.  

 

Not sure why you're comparing this to the bird flu, that one was barely contagious human-to-human.   This virus is extremely contagious, long before you have any symptoms.   By the time you realize you have it, you may have passed it to dozens of folks. 

[Iamcruzin]

On 3/22/2020 at 11:48 AM, Bradison said:

 

Sorry to hear you have been directly impacted and I hope you are dealing with the virus as well as can be expected.  I think you are correct in that we need this thing to spread slowly so the health care implications can be managed effectively.

I am curious why you think 50% of NYC and LA will be infected if they are both under lock down?  Do you think it has already spread enough that those under lock down will give it to each other or do you think folks in those areas are not observing the lock down?

NYC is very congested and it's difficult to keep the 6 foot distancing at the drug store or supermarket.  As of yesterday all non essential business closed which helped a lot. For the most part Manhattan is a ghost town compared to what it is normally. I know my neighbors here on Long Island are keeping a low profile. I have never seen so many cars parked on the street or in driveways at one time.  Kids now a days don't leave the house on a good day because they are gaming. I hope now it's because they are home schooling like they should be.  Had this happened in the 60's and 70's when I was growing up it would have been an entirely different scene.  

[young_ens]

1 hour ago, young_ens said:

Spanish flu went away after a while, not before killing 100,000 people.  

 Read a bad reference, numbers are 20 million to 50 million world-wide deaths!   This flu had a mortality rate of 2 to 10 percent (records are sketchy apparently)

 

This covid is not too much different from the flu for mortality, somewhere around 1 percent.   It seems higher because it's so contagious and when droves inundate the health care system, it's is overwhelming and not everyone can be looked after. There are just not enough ICU beds for all the sick and certainly not enough breathing machines needed for the 5% who have the most severe symptoms.  

 

Good analyses here:

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

 

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

 

I'm worried for our neighbors, the US.  Your government failed hard, way too slow to act.  We knew what happened in China and nothing was done to contain/slow the virus.  Still too many flights in the states spreading the virus because people need to travel I guess....  

Edited March 24, 2020 by young_ens

[AdoraBelle]

22 hours ago, Bradison said:

 

Weak sauce.

 

3M will knock it out of the park.  Hear the can make over 1 million per day when fully cooking.

 

 

 

[LeesSummitCruiser1]

On 3/22/2020 at 9:15 AM, bouhunter said:

They are saying there will likely be waves of the virus over the next 12-18 months until a vaccine is available.  If that comes to be, one has to wonder how they could consider putting thousands of people together on ships under those circumstances.

This is what the annual flu is and we have come to live with it.  This virus has a single strand of RNA so it wont be as variable as the flu so once a vaccine is developed and if immunity lasts more than a couple of months, it may disappear.  Then we will be back to millions catching the flu every year because of its variability and the vaccine being a best guess at what gets out of the far east 18 months ahead of production and thousands of mostly older adults succumbing to complications of flu.  

[Mallefiscent]

13 hours ago, young_ens said:

 Read a bad reference, numbers are 20 million to 50 million world-wide deaths!   This flu had a mortality rate of 2 to 10 percent (records are sketchy apparently)

 

This covid is not too much different from the flu for mortality, somewhere around 1 percent.   It seems higher because it's so contagious and when droves inundate the health care system, it's is overwhelming and not everyone can be looked after. There are just not enough ICU beds for all the sick and certainly not enough breathing machines needed for the 5% who have the most severe symptoms.  

 

Good analyses here:

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

 

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

 

I'm worried for our neighbors, the US.  Your government failed hard, way too slow to act.  We knew what happened in China and nothing was done to contain/slow the virus.  Still too many flights in the states spreading the virus because people need to travel I guess....  

 

 

Don't be too worried about us.  The healthcare system gets overwhelmed because the majority of the people who go don't really need to be there.  As an ER nurse, 95% of the people I see shouldn't be in the ER.  They should see their primary care doctor or an urgent care if they can't get in to see their primary care doctor.  Those people will sit in the waiting room longer and the system appears to be "overwhelmed" when the problem is really that people shouldn't be there.  

 

Part of the reason the mortality rate seems higher is that we aren't testing the people who are mildly ill.  That skews the numbers.  There isn't really any reason to test those who are mildly ill.  It won't change their treatment any.  Common sense is that people should stay away from others while they are ill whether it is covid 19, the flu, a cold, or any other illness.  The people who are more susceptible to dying from covid 19 are also more susceptible to dying from a myriad of other things people bring around them. 

[Ocean Boy]

10 minutes ago, Mallefiscent said:

 

 

Don't be too worried about us.  The healthcare system gets overwhelmed because the majority of the people who go don't really need to be there.  As an ER nurse, 95% of the people I see shouldn't be in the ER.  They should see their primary care doctor or an urgent care if they can't get in to see their primary care doctor.  Those people will sit in the waiting room longer and the system appears to be "overwhelmed" when the problem is really that people shouldn't be there.  

 

Part of the reason the mortality rate seems higher is that we aren't testing the people who are mildly ill.  That skews the numbers.  There isn't really any reason to test those who are mildly ill.  It won't change their treatment any.  Common sense is that people should stay away from others while they are ill whether it is covid 19, the flu, a cold, or any other illness.  The people who are more susceptible to dying from covid 19 are also more susceptible to dying from a myriad of other things people bring around them. 

This. 

[flyguyjake]

On 3/22/2020 at 9:38 AM, firefly333 said:

I'm old enough I was there when my parents got the polio vaccine and stamped it out.

America today is NOT the America of the 50s. This is a whole new level of transmission. Listen to Gov Cuomo & Fauci. They are the ones presenting facts in a reasonable and rational way. They give cold hard facts. Either side can spin it all they want. Facts ARE Facts. Being prepared, overly cautious even, will save thousands of lives in the US. Every life should matter, regardless of health condition or age.

 

[flyguyjake]

18 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Those people will sit in the waiting room longer and the system appears to be "overwhelmed"

Certainly you are joking. No one is complaining about people sitting in waiting rooms. People are dying laying on floors in Italy & Spain. Gov Cuomo isn't complaining about wait times in hospital lobbies, he screaming from the room tops he needs ventilators. The "system" will be overwhelmed because of the flood of seriously sick people. Just look at China, Spain & Italy. Testing is the key, which we are STILL FAILING at in most states. Every Governor better watch and learn from Cuomo to prevent their state from turning into a Spain or Italy situation.

[Mallefiscent]

1 minute ago, flyguyjake said:

America today is NOT the America of the 50s. This is a whole new level of transmission. Listen to Gov Cuomo & Fauci. They are the ones presenting facts in a reasonable and rational way. They give cold hard facts. Either side can spin it all they want. Facts ARE Facts. Being prepared, overly cautious even, will save thousands of lives in the US. Every life should matter, regardless of health condition or age.

 

Actually, Facts can be skewed any way you want them to be.  You just have to ask the question in the right way.   A statistics class can teach you all about it. 

Yes, every life matters, but people will die.  I have spent the last 12 years fighting that battle in the ER, and sometimes no matter what we do, people die.  Right now, fewer people are dying from covid 19 than they are from heart disease, overdoses, smoking, and numerous other things that we have control over.  No one has shut down Mcdonald's or the tobacco industry.  The reason they aren't shut down is because people are accustomed to them.   You have a higher chance of dying when you get into your car to drive to the store than you do of dying from the covid virus, but most people aren't afraid of driving.  They have become immune to the danger of it.

There's been a lot of hype about something that is new to people causing mass panic.  People shouldn't make decisions based on fear. 

[flyguyjake]

2 minutes ago, Mallefiscent said:

There's been a lot of hype

Even in young & healthy, some are left with long term reduction in lung capacity and permanent lung scaring. still too much unknown about Covid19 to know how serious it really is for the masses. No one wants a permanent lung issue if it can be prevented.

[Mallefiscent]

6 minutes ago, flyguyjake said:

Certainly you are joking. No one is complaining about people sitting in waiting rooms. People are dying laying on floors in Italy & Spain. Gov Cuomo isn't complaining about wait times in hospital lobbies, he screaming from the room tops he needs ventilators. The "system" will be overwhelmed because of the flood of seriously sick people. Just look at China, Spain & Italy. Testing is the key, which we are STILL FAILING at in most states. Every Governor better watch and learn from Cuomo to prevent their state from turning into a Spain or Italy situation.

I am curious as to why you think testing is the key?  What do you think testing is going to do?

 

New York has approximately 1500 people on ventilators - not just for covid 19.  The state of New York itself has over 3,000 ventilators in its hospitals at the moment with more ventilators that are stored for emergencies which can be pulled out to use.   Every day people are taken off of the ventilators and others are put on.   It isn't a situation where once you are put on the ventilator, you are left on there for ever when you're in the hospital.  If they don't feel you will ever recover, a sensitive discussion is held with the family about removing their loved one from life support.