Could lifting the ''Jones act'' be a help in this mess.

[d9704011]

3 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

What, exactly is 'it' that is in the EU suggested guidelines?  Surely not a reference to the PVSA?

Silly me!  I see from one of your posts on a similar thread that what you're doing is baiting the hook and I've taken a hard nibble.

[njhorseman]

47 minutes ago, cruzysuzy said:

In two words - closed foreign borders - like Canada right now.

With the CDC No Sail order in place eliminating the PVSA doesn't solve the problem of Canada not admitting cruise ships because the cruise ships aren't allowed to go anywhere regardless.

[ontheweb]

17 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

With the CDC No Sail order in place eliminating the PVSA doesn't solve the problem of Canada not admitting cruise ships because the cruise ships aren't allowed to go anywhere regardless.

And according to a report on their financials by Carnival Corporation, they are not yet even discussing what needs to be done to restart cruises with the CDC.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

I enjoy the experience of foreign ports.  But if there were a cruise up & down our western coasts I think I would enjoy that as a convenient get-away.    Probably would feel the same about a NE coastal cruise (maybe R/T out of Boston or NYC).    

 

Is it that US ports don't appeal that drives your preference?  

 

 

Of course those R/T coastal cruises from Boston on American Cruise Line are on small ships with crews paid by US standards — figure on spending $500 -$700 per person per day for an ocean view - a lot more for balcony or suite.

[Langley Cruisers]

3 hours ago, cruzysuzy said:

Even if we didn't have Covid 19 cruising should in the future be avoided by anyone with an immnocompromised system or risk factors in any case....

 

We have been on many cruises and I have never felt ill or unsafe and all were cleared by my doctor. We took the usual precautions. I understand what you are saying, but in my opinion, Noro was a mere inconvenience compared to Covid, which could (and probably would) kill me.

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course those R/T coastal cruises from Boston on American Cruise Line are on small ships with crews paid by US standards — figure on spending $500 -$700 per person per day for an ocean view - a lot more for balcony or suite.

 

Thank you.  I knew nothing about American Cruise Lines.  Didn't even know they existed.  I'll have to take a look.    I would not expect crew to be paid less than US level wages for an American only cruise.  

[chengkp75]

21 hours ago, cruzysuzy said:

With suggestions for shorter cruises and dealing with closed borders anyone heard of any activity to rescind the Jones Act?

 

10 hours ago, cruzysuzy said:

I bring it up for a very rational reason.  The EU has put it in their suggested guidelines for restarting cruising and I wondered if the same idea could be applied to US only port cruises with a change of the law.

 

10 hours ago, cruzysuzy said:

In two words - closed foreign borders - like Canada right now.

Given that the US has the worst infection rate of any country in the world, I don't see how cruising at only US ports would be a safe idea.  The EU has virtually taken this first wave of covid back to "baseline" infections, so their ports are far safer than US ports.  What the EU has proposed, and what the cruise lines are planning on adopting (AIDA) are "cruises to nowhere", with no ports of call.  First off, "cruises to nowhere" are legal under the PVSA, but run afoul of US visa regulations regarding crew members, so are not economically viable.  Secondly, many may ask why a huge corporation like Carnival is starting up cruises with one of their smallest lines, AIDA, and the answer is the EU's version of the PVSA.  A cruise from/to a German homeport, with no other ports of call, would be domestic transportation withing Germany, an EU member nation, and therefore limited to only ships that are flagged in EU member nations.  So, AIDA can do these cruises, as can Costa, HAL, and a few ships that are flagged in Malta, but the vast majority of cruise ships, from most of the lines, which are flagged in the Bahamas or Panama, will not be allowed to do these cruises.

 

Instead of changing the PVSA to allow US only cruises, I suspect that US ports may be the last to open to cruises, unless we get the virus under control.

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Thank you.  I knew nothing about American Cruise Lines.  Didn't even know they existed.  I'll have to take a look.    I would not expect crew to be paid less than US level wages for an American only cruise.  

At present, there is American Cruise Lines, and Blount Small Ship Adventures offering US flag coastal and river cruises.  American Queen River Cruises offers Mississippi River cruises under US flag, and Viking is starting up a US flag operation on the Mississippi.

[cruzysuzy]

12 hours ago, d9704011 said:

What, exactly is 'it' that is in the EU suggested guidelines?  Surely not a reference to the PVSA?

No, only about the EU sailings but it's likely that their guidelines might influence any eventual US sailings.

[cruzysuzy]

10 hours ago, Langley Cruisers said:

 

We have been on many cruises and I have never felt ill or unsafe and all were cleared by my doctor. We took the usual precautions. I understand what you are saying, but in my opinion, Noro was a mere inconvenience compared to Covid, which could (and probably would) kill me.

Sadly, I believe covid 19 is just the beginning.  I worked in microbiological medical testing until retirement and it seems we were getting hit with the 'next' superbug every few years.  Considering, in reality, how long it takes to develop a vaccine safely (one that doesn't make things worse) I am not hopeful.

[SRF]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Given that the US has the worst infection rate of any country in the world,

 

FYI, in terms of cases per 1 million population, the US is 13th (9,357 cases per million).  Qatar (35,952), Bahrain, Chile, Kuwait, Armenia, Oman, and Peru are among those higher.

 

In deaths per 1 million population, we are 9th in the world (405 deaths per million).  Belgium (843), UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, and France are higher.

 

Yes, based on raw numbers, we have the most cases, but we are a large country.

[JRG]

13 hours ago, njhorseman said:

With the CDC No Sail order in place eliminating the PVSA doesn't solve the problem

 

I think you keep missing the boat here. 

 

Think in terms of exclusion,  not elimination.

 

 

 

 

 

[JRG]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I don't see how cruising at only US ports would be a safe idea.

 

You have to wait and see the rest of the details,  it will be different from what you are used to.

 

At least you are discussing the idea now,   that is a good to see.

 

 

 

 

 

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

 

I think you keep missing the boat here. 

 

Think in terms of exclusion,  not elimination.

 

 

 

 

 

The exclusion issue is meaningless and irrelevant for as long as the cruise lines are not permitted to sail at all or have "voluntarily' suspended operations, as is currently the case. 

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, SRF said:

Yes, based on raw numbers, we have the most cases, but we are a large country.

With 4% of world population, we have 25% of covid cases.  That's not a record I'd like to have.  And, Qatar for example, has 0.3% of world population and 0.8% of covid cases.

Edited July 11, 2020 by chengkp75

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Yes, based on raw numbers, we have the most cases, but we are a large country.

 

In addition to raw numbers, I suggest the biggest concern should be the trends. Most of the European countries have already flattened the curve and daily infections & deaths are trending down. Unfortunately, in the US, numbers are trending upwards.

[navybankerteacher]

59 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

In addition to raw numbers, I suggest the biggest concern should be the trends. Most of the European countries have already flattened the curve and daily infections & deaths are trending down. Unfortunately, in the US, numbers are trending upwards.

So far it seems to be the infection numbes trending upwards.  This, of course, will in a couple of weeks certainly result in the death rates trending upwards - a much more noticeable trend, which will likely take the rest of the world much longer to tolerate enough to welcome us as visitors.

[iancal]

Absolutely agree.  Not to mention discourage overseas visitors from heading stateside for a vacation or a cruise.

[Charles4515]

There are US ports that don’t want cruise ships either. American Cruise Line won’t be able to call at Bar Harbor.

 

 

https://www.mainepublic.org/post/bar-harbor-closes-ports-cruise-ships-remainder-2020-season

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

There are US ports that don’t want cruise ships either. American Cruise Line won’t be able to call at Bar Harbor.

 

 

https://www.mainepublic.org/post/bar-harbor-closes-ports-cruise-ships-remainder-2020-season

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

Definitely a NIMBY response. And once more cruising starts, I would not be surprised if this is the new norm. Finding ports is going to be a problem.

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

 

Definitely a NIMBY response. And once more cruising starts, I would not be surprised if this is the new norm. Finding ports is going to be a problem.

Last economic study showed that Bar Harbor received about $105/passenger.  So,  if American Cruises brings 60 pax on a port call, that is $6000, with the risk of bringing covid to a community that has had zero cases to date, and only 18 in the whole county.

[ldubs]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

At present, there is American Cruise Lines, and Blount Small Ship Adventures offering US flag coastal and river cruises.  American Queen River Cruises offers Mississippi River cruises under US flag, and Viking is starting up a US flag operation on the Mississippi.

 

Thanks Chengkp.  I wonder if the Columbia river is a viable option for river cruising.  I've driven along it east from Portland to as far as Hood River which is only about 60 miles.  I seem to recall dams or other diversions.   Never followed it west to Astoria, which I guess is about 100 miles from Portland.     

[clo]

3 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Thanks Chengkp.  I wonder if the Columbia river is a viable option for river cruising.  I've driven along it east from Portland to as far as Hood River which is only about 60 miles.  I seem to recall dams or other diversions.   Never followed it west to Astoria, which I guess is about 100 miles from Portland.     

We recently drove a long way east along the Columbia River (probably to where it turns north) and I couldn't see the attraction of a cruise. And I know, for instance, that Mulnomah Falls is still closed due to COVID.  I remember at the time there were other things that we also closed.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

Thanks Chengkp.  I wonder if the Columbia river is a viable option for river cruising.  I've driven along it east from Portland to as far as Hood River which is only about 60 miles.  I seem to recall dams or other diversions.   Never followed it west to Astoria, which I guess is about 100 miles from Portland.     

Their cruises go from Astoria to Clarkston, WA, about 400-500 miles, up a series of 8 locks, so it is much like European river cruising.

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

Their cruises go from Astoria to Clarkston, WA, about 400-500 miles, up a series of 8 locks, so it is much like European river cruising.

 

Thanks again.  I like the sound of that.  I really enjoy that part of the country.  My list of things to do after the pandemic is growing.  haha.