Deployment 2022-23 booking season begins

[taznremmy]

I first started sailing on Celebrity, then added RCCL.  Love RCCL and my perks,  but I started sailing on Princess several years ago (out of necessity) when RCCL abandoned the West Coast.  Princess has some nice itineraries,  (Mexico, West Coast, Hawaii,  So, Pacific, and this coming year they have added Alaska from LAX.)  I have now reached their top tier.  So, it is a toss up for me.  If both were sailing out at the same time, same itinerary; honestly, cost would be my deciding factor.  

[Hoopster95]

20 hours ago, MADflyer said:

Well, 2023 has actual bookings now. Interesting they chose to move Navigator, at least as the place holder. 

 

I'm betting on place holder

 

19 hours ago, twangster said:

Navigator through the Panama Canal would be a treat.  Love to see that on the books. 

 

Agreed.... however Voyager, Freedom and Oasis Classes do not fit under the Bridge of Americas

Edited October 18, 2020 by Hoopster95

[geoff2802]

1 hour ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

I'm betting on place holder

 

 

Agreed.... however Voyager, Freedom and Oasis Classes do not fit under the Bridge of Americas

Ah yes.... that would rule out Panama Canal!  

 

Voyager is homeporting in Singapore for a season finishing March 2022.  Perhaps this is the ship they have in mind for US Pacific coastal cruises (appreciate that the current Monterey bookings are for 2023).  The seasonality works and it's seems unlikely that Voyager will return to Australia.  

Spectrum would sail from Singapore seasonally.  

Wonder in China most of the year. 

Quantum in Australia and Alaska.  

[ONECRUISER]

13 minutes ago, geoff2802 said:

Ah yes.... that would rule out Panama Canal!  

 

Voyager is homeporting in Singapore for a season finishing March 2022.  Perhaps this is the ship they have in mind for US Pacific coastal cruises (appreciate that the current Monterey bookings are for 2023).  The seasonality works and it's seems unlikely that Voyager will return to Australia.  

Spectrum would sail from Singapore seasonally.  

Wonder in China most of the year. 

Quantum in Australia and Alaska.  

Or another ship doing a nice Cruise around the South America route...

[geoff2802]

3 minutes ago, ONECRUISER said:

Or another ship doing a nice Cruise around the South America route...

Seems unlikely, but it would be great.  

 

[taznremmy]

1 hour ago, ONECRUISER said:

Or another ship doing a nice Cruise around the South America route...

 

Seems unlikely, but it would be great.  

Discovery Princess, Jan. 6, 2022, 50 nights, FTL to LAX.

[twangster]

4 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

I'm betting on place holder

 

 

Agreed.... however Voyager, Freedom and Oasis Classes do not fit under the Bridge of Americas

 

Technically Quantum Class can fit.  Voyager class fit just fine.

 

It does require special approval and insurance carriers have to sign off much like visiting Vancouver.

 

Norwegian Bliss has done the Panama Canal both ways.   

 

PS - Both Lions Gate and Bridge of Americas feature 200' clearance.

[Hoopster95]

2 hours ago, twangster said:

 

Technically Quantum Class can fit.  Voyager class fit just fine.

 

 

 

Lengthy Panama Canal threads a couple of years ago where @BillB48 and @chengkp75 offered opinions on Voyager class fitting under the BoA. At the time, we were discussing the dredging of the new canal, document I observed on Quantum in 2014 regarding PC transit and how she could fit under... and then to the Lion's Gate (for Alaska sailings) were proven (obviously came true) that Ovation can fit under.

I believe, IIRC, that BillB48 pretty much set he wouldn't sail Voyager Class under the BoA whatsoever, even in perfect tidal conditions. I don't have the energy to search for those threads so I hope Bill and/or cheng can comment here.

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Lengthy Panama Canal threads a couple of years ago where @BillB48 and @chengkp75 offered opinions on Voyager class fitting under the BoA. At the time, we were discussing the dredging of the new canal, document I observed on Quantum in 2014 regarding PC transit and how she could fit under... and then to the Lion's Gate (for Alaska sailings) were proven (obviously came true) that Ovation can fit under.

I believe, IIRC, that BillB48 pretty much set he wouldn't sail Voyager Class under the BoA whatsoever, even in perfect tidal conditions. I don't have the energy to search for those threads so I hope Bill and/or cheng can comment here.

 

Still stalking Bliss and Breakaway Panama Canal sailings.  Looking forward to informed opinions. 

[BillB48]

6 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Lengthy Panama Canal threads a couple of years ago where @BillB48 and @chengkp75 offered opinions on Voyager class fitting under the BoA. At the time, we were discussing the dredging of the new canal, document I observed on Quantum in 2014 regarding PC transit and how she could fit under... and then to the Lion's Gate (for Alaska sailings) were proven (obviously came true) that Ovation can fit under.

I believe, IIRC, that BillB48 pretty much set he wouldn't sail Voyager Class under the BoA whatsoever, even in perfect tidal conditions. I don't have the energy to search for those threads so I hope Bill and/or cheng can comment here.

 

There was a PowerPoint presentation I could access online that gave the air draft for the various RCG class of ships, can't seem to locate it now.  However I do recall the air draft for the Voyager/Freedom ships as 208'.  Presently the Canal permits unrestricted passage under the BoA for ships with up to 190' air draft and up to 205' on a case by case basis which should include the Quantum class.  The BoA has a clearance of 201' above mean high water and the tides at Balboa can run over 20'.  While I do not have any inside knowledge, the Canal has seemed to be rather conservative in pushing the clearance limits of the Bridge... the Sunshine Skyway permits passage under the bridge with only 5' clearance, but the Canal appears to be more comfortable with a clearance of around 10'.  Even though there is not a 20' tidal range every day, the range of tides most days of the month would come close ( not quite but close) to their 10' comfort zone at low tide.

 

I don't know how feasible it would be to make modifications to the offending area of the ship... most likely the funnel.  In the case of the Celebrity Solstice it was the forward mast that was too high for the Lions Gate Bridge, fixed by hinging the mast.  Modifying any part of the funnel on Voyager/Freedom no doubt is more problematic with the addition of scrubbers.

Edited October 19, 2020 by BillB48

[Hoopster95]

7 hours ago, BillB48 said:

 

There was a PowerPoint presentation I could access online that gave the air draft for the various RCG class of ships, can't seem to locate it now.  However I do recall the air draft for the Voyager/Freedom ships as 208'. .

 

Thank you for dropping by Bill! I loved those PC threads and all the photos/descriptions you had regarding your sailings and experience. With the awful search tool we now have on CC, I'm hoping that perhaps you saved links to them??

 

My memory is good with facts and figures... Voyager & Freedom air draft pretty sure is 206', unless that figure was erroneously posted on fact sheets. Having said that, and please correct me if I'm wrong, to paraphrase your final thoughts on the Panama Canal topic back then... it's pretty much an extremely slim chance that Voyager/Freedom would be allowed under the BoA even under the best of conditions (lowest tide, etc).

 

So bringing Navigator from it's current position in the Caribbean through the Canal or around the Horn is likely a non-starter (I give that a zero% chance, considering the amount of $$$ RCG is bleeding with current no sailings). Voyager of the Seas makes the only sense out of all Voyager Class ships... TP from Oz/Asia, and she was already listed on the LA port schedule a few months back for 2021. And then those port entries disappeared within a week of them being discovered by MadFlyer I believe..... also, wasn't Voyager fitted with tenders (whereas Navigator wasn't) so Santa Barbara & Cabo would be an issue with Navigator?

 

or maybe Navigator is a place holder for one of the Quantum Class ships?? That would be fantastic!

[MADflyer]

Pure Speculation not based on port bookings, but, being these sailing are in 2023 and the fact that Adventure is booked only one season at Barcelona, Navigator could do the short cruise season at Barcelona in 2022 and then if RCG get incentives yet again to return to Dubai, she could do a winter Dubai season and then do a Japan or Hawaii crossing to SFO, LAX or SAN. They could even throw in a short Holy Land season prior to the Suez Canal sailing. 

 

This would even give shore power conversion opportunities at Cadiz or Singapore or other shipyard prior to arrival on the west coast. 

 

I keep seeing quotes that RCI have 14 ships with 'shore power' but I can not find a list of them anywhere. 

[springaussie]

Navigator could easily do a season after Europe 2022 in Sydney or Brisbane then head to Los Angeles May 2023. 

[geoff2802]

8 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Thank you for dropping by Bill! I loved those PC threads and all the photos/descriptions you had regarding your sailings and experience. With the awful search tool we now have on CC, I'm hoping that perhaps you saved links to them??

 

My memory is good with facts and figures... Voyager & Freedom air draft pretty sure is 206', unless that figure was erroneously posted on fact sheets. Having said that, and please correct me if I'm wrong, to paraphrase your final thoughts on the Panama Canal topic back then... it's pretty much an extremely slim chance that Voyager/Freedom would be allowed under the BoA even under the best of conditions (lowest tide, etc).

 

So bringing Navigator from it's current position in the Caribbean through the Canal or around the Horn is likely a non-starter (I give that a zero% chance, considering the amount of $$$ RCG is bleeding with current no sailings). Voyager of the Seas makes the only sense out of all Voyager Class ships... TP from Oz/Asia, and she was already listed on the LA port schedule a few months back for 2021. And then those port entries disappeared within a week of them being discovered by MadFlyer I believe..... also, wasn't Voyager fitted with tenders (whereas Navigator wasn't) so Santa Barbara & Cabo would be an issue with Navigator?

 

or maybe Navigator is a place holder for one of the Quantum Class ships?? That would be fantastic!

Yes, Voyager has tenders.  They have ferried us to and from shore many times.   This is the most likely ship for deployment to US Pacific coast and Mexico, if it (hopefully) comes to fruition.  

 

This could be combined with a seasonal Singapore deployment.  But wait... Ensenada embarkation...  Noooooooo! 

 

[geoff2802]

14 minutes ago, springaussie said:

Navigator could easily do a season after Europe 2022 in Sydney or Brisbane then head to Los Angeles May 2023. 

Hey springaussie, haven't seen you on these forums for a while.  Welcome back! 

[Blue Eyed Belfast Belle]

13 hours ago, MADflyer said:

Pure Speculation not based on port bookings, but, being these sailing are in 2023 and the fact that Adventure is booked only one season at Barcelona, Navigator could do the short cruise season at Barcelona in 2022 and then if RCG get incentives yet again to return to Dubai, she could do a winter Dubai season and then do a Japan or Hawaii crossing to SFO, LAX or SAN. They could even throw in a short Holy Land season prior to the Suez Canal sailing. 

 

This would even give shore power conversion opportunities at Cadiz or Singapore or other shipyard prior to arrival on the west coast. 

 

I keep seeing quotes that RCI have 14 ships with 'shore power' but I can not find a list of them anywhere. 

I would do a Suez Canal passage again in a heartbeat!!

[BillB48]

6 hours ago, geoff2802 said:

 

 

15 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

it's pretty much an extremely slim chance that Voyager/Freedom would be allowed under the BoA even under the best of conditions (lowest tide, etc).

Actually I think it is "possible",  given that the air draft figure is slightly over the published limits.  I think the air draft of those ships would be close enough (either the 206 or 208) where the Canal could allow an exception to the limits.  They have in the past granted exceptions for what they would class as a "delivery transit".  What this normally involves is permission for a very few transits, perhaps two or three at most.  Beyond that they would not accept the vessel as a regular customer unless it could be brought within limits. 

 

I have always had the suspicion that the Navigator might be a place holder for another ship... just a suspicion, not even a wild rumor to base that suspicion on!!

[Roger88]

I think the booking season has begun somewhere in April and it is still going quite well. At least I know for sure that cruises for 2021 are almost all fully booked (the most intresting ones), 2022 is about to get overbooked, so I would hurry in this case 

[twangster]

I'm a bit surprised that Royal would contemplate taking Navigator away from Perfect Day CC.  That seemed to be a winning combination exceeding revenue targets.  So unlike Royal to mess with revenue success.  How long has Liberty been in Texas?  I though Navigator was all but a fixture in South Florida like Liberty has been in TX.

[Hoopster95]

8 hours ago, BillB48 said:

What this normally involves is permission for a very few transits, perhaps two or three at most.  

 

Ah!... so you think Voyager Class would get under, but with special permission and under the best of tidal conditions, and likely once for the purpose of redeployment. Got it. So Navigator under the BoA is possible.

 

Now the next question.... does Navigator have tenders for Cabo, Zihuat (if they add this destination again), Santa Barbara, Monterey. Still makes more sense that Voyager would be the actual ship since she was already listed on the LA port schedule and has tenders. We will see. Just awesome being able to speculate an actual ship on the West Coast for once.

 

[BillB48]

2 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Ah!... so you think Voyager Class would get under, but with special permission and under the best of tidal conditions, and likely once for the purpose of redeployment. Got it. So Navigator under the BoA is possible.

 

Now the next question.... does Navigator have tenders for Cabo, Zihuat (if they add this destination again), Santa Barbara, Monterey. Still makes more sense that Voyager would be the actual ship since she was already listed on the LA port schedule and has tenders. We will see. Just awesome being able to speculate an actual ship on the West Coast for once.

 

 

Yes, the Navigator under the BoA is possible.  However, getting the approval nods from the powers that be might be a bridge too far.  Pardon the pun😁.  As long as Royal can get a hold of the right people most anything is possible.

 

The tender situation on the Navigator would be better answered by someone else, I really don't know what the situation is.  Since the Mariner and the Navigator are the newest editions of the Voyager class, did the Mariner have tenders when she was stopping at Cabo during her west coast days?  Maybe they are similarly equipped??

[twangster]

2 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Ah!... so you think Voyager Class would get under, but with special permission and under the best of tidal conditions, and likely once for the purpose of redeployment. Got it. So Navigator under the BoA is possible.

 

Now the next question.... does Navigator have tenders for Cabo, Zihuat (if they add this destination again), Santa Barbara, Monterey. Still makes more sense that Voyager would be the actual ship since she was already listed on the LA port schedule and has tenders. We will see. Just awesome being able to speculate an actual ship on the West Coast for once.

 

 

I thought it was going to be Voyager in CA.  Didn't she appear in some early MX port schedules?  She had a recent dry dock so may already have the shore power conversion plus she is in the right ocean so no costly canal transit.  But with Wonder delayed that left a capacity gap in Asia.

 

How did Explorer get from the Pacific to Atlantic?  

[Hoopster95]

24 minutes ago, BillB48 said:

Since the Mariner and the Navigator are the newest editions of the Voyager class, did the Mariner have tenders when she was stopping at Cabo during her west coast days?  Maybe they are similarly equipped??

 

Well now I feel like an idiot 🤪. I was on Mariner in the West Coast in Cabo... only my 2nd cruise. I definitely remember tenders, however cannot remember if shoreside tenders or RCL tenders from the ship. I'll have to look at old photos once I get home.

 

19 minutes ago, twangster said:

How did Explorer get from the Pacific to Atlantic?  

 

It was Mariner... RCL sailed her around South America. Very inexpensive cruise fares... I know @Merion_Mom was on this sailing and has posted about it in the past. IIRC the sailings weren't full, and very heavy on sea days.

 

And regarding your Voyager statement, totally agree on everything (cheaper to bring her over, prob already has shore power, 100% certainty of tenders, etc etc.) Voyager of the Seas simply makes more sense imho, was already on LA port schedules for a short period of time... MadFlyer found and posted it I think. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Hoopster95

[Chiliburn]

Explorer went through the Suez Canal.

 

 I got a old screen shot of the voyager booking 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Chiliburn

[Hoopster95]

18 hours ago, geoff2802 said:

This could be combined with a seasonal Singapore deployment.  But wait... Ensenada embarkation...  Noooooooo! 

 

 

Actually, RCL can do to Voyager what they did with Explorer for 3 years....

Direct Singapore or Sydney to LA... no separate cruise/embarking passengers in Oahu, thus no need for Ensenada.

 

I don't know though... I keep thinking of my all-incl in Cabo vacay just this past December, watching the Royal Princess, NCL Bliss and the brand new Carnival Horizon all sail in and drop anchor in front of my resort. Would RCL send Voyager (will be 23 years old on 2022/2023) to compete against those larger and new(er) ships? Or a Quantum Class ship.... with two of them already doing Alaska with no need for a TP? 😉

 

Hey, like I was pushing so hard and dreaming for Q Class in Alaska on the deployment threads all the way back in 2015, I'll push as hard and dream for Q Class out of LA as well. 🙂

Edited October 20, 2020 by Hoopster95