Are HAL's Prices Fair

[SilvertoGold]

14 minutes ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

have you done the maths to compare the base fare without perks to the fare with perks as a % increase vs $/guest/day analysis?  It may be that HAL are using a % increase that is consistent, and because of the price jump from inside to ocean view to verandah the difference between base and with perks could be substantial with that pricing formulation, especially on sailings where there is a significant price  jump from one meta category to another.
 

for example - if they were adding a 20% premium with perks vs without

inside base fare $1500 with perks $1800 ($300 increase)

outside base fare $3000 with perks $3600 ($600 increase)

verandah base fare $4500 with perks $5400 ($900 increase)
 

just a thought

 

Example:

 

Inside fare with promo $1400, without promo $1100 -- promo costs $300

Outside fare with promo $2200, without promo $1600 - promo costs $600

Balcony fare with promo $4100, without promo $3200 - promo costs $900

 

This is great marketing, but for my money I would book according to how much the promo is costing me.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

12 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Anyway you spin it, that would still be a rip off in that the folks in a veranda would be paying $600 more for the exact same perks as those who booked an inside cabin. 

I agree with you. I was just postulating that it might be the methodology they are using.

 

that said I checked some pricing in random cruises and the differentials are all over the map. On one cruise the differential decreased with each category you move up until you get to full suites and the Have it All Fare was actually lower than the Advantage fare without perks. 
 

whatever formula they are using it, like so much with HAL, is consistently inconsistent 

Edited August 31, 2020 by AtlantaCruiser72

[lazey1]

13 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

Fair? No..

Why is it not fair?  My defination of a Fair Price is What a Willing Buyer would pay a Willing Sellor with neither under any obligation to buy or sell.  In other words in order to buy something I have to feel the price is allright and in order to sell something that I own I have to feel the price is allright.

Everything I purchase from basic necessities to luxury items I look at without pricing and ask myself do I like this, then I ask myself do I need this or do I just want this, then I look at the price and ask myself am I comfortable with paying this amount for this. If I asm comfortable paying the price it is fair.

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by lazey1

[iancal]

IMHO it is grossly unfair to even suggest the HAL is ripping people off or being unfair.   Many vendors bundle offerings with the same discrepancies between offers.  It is up to the buyer to decide.

[Sir PMP]

24 minutes ago, lazey1 said:

Why is it not fair?  My defination of a Fair Price is What a Willing Buyer would pay a Willing Sellor with neither under any obligation to buy or sell.  In other words in order to buy something I have to feel the price is allright and in order to sell something that I own I have to feel the price is allright.

Everything I purchase from basic necessities to luxury items I look at without pricing and ask myself do I like this, then I ask myself do I need this or do I just want this, then I look at the price and ask myself am I comfortable with paying this amount for this. If I asm comfortable paying the price it is fair.

 

What's fair to you mat not be fair to another customer..

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

IMHO it is grossly unfair to even suggest the HAL is ripping people off or being unfair.   Many vendors bundle offerings with the same discrepancies between offers.  It is up to the buyer to decide.

That's fine. At least folks who read this thread will now be aware of this particular "Marketing 101" strategy when it comes to HAL's "Have It All" promotion.

 

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, Sir PMP said:

What's fair to you mat not be fair to another customer..

Give us your definition of "fair", with some factual examples of HAL being unfair, as compared to other things you consider "fair" please...

[Mary229]

As far we know HAL may be trying to reach a higher end client, not saying luxury, but higher end who is willing to pay a little more and this package is a entre into the all inclusive model.  I will say it again, one thing I really like about HAL is the ability to re-fare if there is a price drop or valuable addition.  Also if you have a few FCD the entire cruise is refundable until final payment.  Those to things, to me, are a value.

[Ken the cruiser]

3 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Give us your definition of "fair", with some factual examples of HAL being unfair, as compared to other things you consider "fair" please...

Here are a couple that come to mind:

 

1. As stated above if HAL offers a perk package for an additional charge on top of the "cruise only" cabin category charge, the cost should be the same regardless of which cabin you book (inside, ocean view or balcony). For example, Princess charges $40 pp/day for their gratuities/internet/drink package, regardless of which cabin category you book.

 

2. If you book a cruise with a nonrefundable deposit and then HAL lowers the NRD rate for that category before the final payment due date, you should be able to refare that NRD booking.

[cruisemom42]

33 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

 I will say it again, one thing I really like about HAL is the ability to re-fare if there is a price drop or valuable addition.  

 

These days that is dependent on what type of fare you originally booked, however. It's not universally available.

[Mary229]

54 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

These days that is dependent on what type of fare you originally booked, however. It's not universally available.

Let me rephrase:  if you review your options you can purchase a changeable fare on HAL.  The only kind I have ever purchased.    I recently priced 2021 and 2022 cruises on other lines where they wanted full non-refundable payment upfront.   Even though I am a risk taker I don’t have that kind of confidence in a line nor my own future plans. 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

 

Are these people buying RVs and time shares the same market as cruisers though?

 

I know neither of those options holds any allure for me as a substitute for cruising and international travel (e.g., specialist tours or independent travel). 

 

When I think of alternatives to cruising, I consider flying into Hawaii, Aruba, Tokyo, etc..  I look at land tours with National Geographic.  Timeshares would never be an option, other than renting them at discount.

 

[Mary229]

4 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

When I think of alternatives to cruising, I consider flying into Hawaii, Aruba, Tokyo, etc..  I look at land tours with National Geographic.  Timeshares would never be an option, other than renting them at discount.

 

It is all the leisure industry.  In the original post I did mention land based travel.  

[lcand1923]

"Fair" is in the eyes of the beholder.  I am a Solo Traveler so I know that I will be paying a premium whichever cruise I book.  HAL has a large Solo Premium compared with other lines.  However, I know that if I am willing to pay that fare, I will be treated very well in the Specialty Restaurants, at the Bars and in the Entertainment Venues.  Having sailed other lines with a lower Solo Premium, I've learned that "you gets what you pay for" in regards to the treatment you will receive.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

Our 7 night coastal next year, in a Signature Suite, costed us $1,100..  Celebrity wants $1,800 for Aqua Class, $4,600 for a suite.

 

The 2nd leg is in a Vista Suite, for $1,499.  Celebrity wants $1,749 for Aqua Class, $3,499 for a suite.

 

For our 17 Night Panama Canal cruise, $2,999 for a veranda, $4,299 for a suite.  Celebrity's 15 Night, verandas start at $3,499, suites at $7,800.

 

Are HAL's prices fair?  From my perspective, yes.

[iancal]

Our alternatives to cruising are primarily extended independent land trips.  They can involve 6 stars, no stars, last minute AI's, last minute cruises....whatever.     Over the past two years, at least in the Med, we have found that we much prefer a land tour to a cruise and the value for us is significantly higher.  Same in the winter when we look at Asia tours vs spending time on our own in Thailand or Australia.

 

But we are oldies.  The family that buys a timeshare, an RV, or a cottage may not be so interested in cruising any more simply because their leisure budget is committed for X number of years.   Same for retirees like us who decide to buy vacation homes in southern states, Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama, etc.   Not to mention those scared off cruising because of covid.

Edited August 31, 2020 by iancal

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, iancal said:

Our alternatives to cruising are primarily extended independent land trips.  They can involve 6 stars, no stars, last minute AI's, last minute cruises....whatever.     Over the past two years, at least in the Med, we have found that we much prefer a land tour to a cruise and the value for us is significantly higher.  Same in the winter when we look at Asia tours vs spending time on our own in Thailand or Australia.

I agree and if I could get my husband on a trans-oceanic flight I would likely never cruise again except for select itineraries.  We do enjoy wandering aimlessly 

[iancal]

HAL is a business.  It is not some sort of social club or HOA.

 

They are in business to make money and provide a reasonable  return for their shareholders.  

 

If you do not like the offer, then simply pass in favor of something else or another vendor.  Why all the fuss?

Edited August 31, 2020 by iancal

[Hlitner]

For those who are "exclusive" customers of HAL, whether or not their pricing is "fair" or competitive does not matter.  They will pay the price or stay home.  For those of us who cruise many different cruise lines and various land trips, the pricing is indeed an issue that we compare to many other options.  Whining about the price of anything is really silly as folks have the free will to reject the price and look at other options.

 

Hank

[JeffElizabeth]

On 8/31/2020 at 10:11 AM, iancal said:

It is very easy.  If someone feels that the prices are not fair than simply don't buy the product. 

I find it very hard to compare prices between cruise lines because they offer different levels of service and food. And for the posters who think cruise lines will be able to increase prices, I think you will see very varied pricing. Too many cruisers will not return to cruising. Too spooked. I have friends who haven't gone out to eat in six months. The varied pricing? Some will pay list, but expect more to negotiate down because the passengers have the power right now.  I am really worried service and standards will suffer on the first cruises. Expect the food quality to suffer too. I will be reading reviews before our next cruise eagerly to see if I am right. 

[JeffElizabeth]

On 8/31/2020 at 4:44 PM, lcand1923 said:

"Fair" is in the eyes of the beholder.  I am a Solo Traveler so I know that I will be paying a premium whichever cruise I book.  HAL has a large Solo Premium compared with other lines.  However, I know that if I am willing to pay that fare, I will be treated very well in the Specialty Restaurants, at the Bars and in the Entertainment Venues.  Having sailed other lines with a lower Solo Premium, I've learned that "you gets what you pay for" in regards to the treatment you will receive.

Agree. We have met many solo travelers on HAL and they admit paying the premium is worth it to them despite other cruises offering single rooms. 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

14 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

I find it very hard to compare prices between cruise lines because they offer different levels of service and food. And for the posters who think cruise lines will be able to increase prices, I think you will see very varied pricing. Too many cruisers will not return to cruising. Too spooked. I have friends who haven't gone out to eat in six months. 

 

These companies know that some cruisers won't return, and new cruisers may be skittish after newscasts of Diamond Princess.  All the more reason to sell and scrap the older ships.  They will do their best to estimate supply and demand.

[Mary229]

2 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

These companies know that some cruisers won't return, and new cruisers may be skittish after newscasts of Diamond Princess.  All the more reason to sell and scrap the older ships.  They will do their best to estimate supply and demand.

And one possible response is increasing prices.  When most of us started cruising cruises weren't cheap by any measure.  In recent years they have become the value option in vacation choices but that may change.  We had a thread a while back about how much our first cruise cost and mine was not cheap - it was Princess in the 1980s

[Woofbite]

On 9/1/2020 at 9:17 PM, JeffElizabeth said:

Agree. We have met many solo travelers on HAL and they admit paying the premium is worth it to them despite other cruises offering single rooms. 

 

 

Because so many single rooms aren't really a room/cabin.  Somebody figured out how to jam a bathroom into a broom closet in the most undesirable part of the ship and call it a single cabin.

[JeffElizabeth]

23 hours ago, Mary229 said:

And one possible response is increasing prices.  When most of us started cruising cruises weren't cheap by any measure.  In recent years they have become the value option in vacation choices but that may change.  We had a thread a while back about how much our first cruise cost and mine was not cheap - it was Princess in the 1980s

Great point. We were paying much more for our cruises in the mid 2000's than last March. The quality was much higher back then on HAL,  but to us it seemed like the service is just as good now, only missing a couple of frills.