healthy sail panel recommendations are released

[Ken the cruiser]

31 minutes ago, gerelmx said:

I know this can be modified but I want to know How this works for passengers on B2B...

be tested for SARS-CoV-2 between 5 days and 24 hours before boarding

How I  will be tested for the 2nd or 3r leg?

 

But if B2Bs are possible, my uninformed guess would be once you're cleared by their "quick" COVID test to embark on your first leg, you'll be good to go for your entire cruise. OTOH, they may choose to give you another quick COVID test prior to boarding the second leg when you're escorted to the transit area where you will wait to reboard after they've cleared the ship.

[bama4cruisin]

At this point, the two lines which have started with limited cruises in Europe, Tui and MSC, are not allowing b2b cruises.  Whether this is part of the initial protocol when cruising resumes here or not remains to be seen.  We also need to keep in mind that the stringent protocols required initially will, hopefully, be eased as the situation changes . . . But no one can predict the timing.

 

 

[Ashland]

6 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

But if B2Bs are possible, my uninformed guess would be once you're cleared by their "quick" COVID test to embark on your first leg, you'll be good to go for your entire cruise. OTOH, they may choose to give you another quick COVID test prior to boarding the second leg when you're escorted to the transit area where you will wait to reboard after they've cleared the ship.

This ^^^^ As a consecutive cruiser you would have under gone multiple tests and there should be no reason to disallow you on the 2nd leg. Depending on the port a consecutive cruiser may not even have to or be required to exit the ship during the change over.

[Arizona Wildcat]

The questions are when will cruises from the US to other than private islands happen.  The European cruises have been limited as to nationality on board and other ways.

To have cruising look anything like 2019 we need borders to open, ports to open and probably a vaccine.  Until COVID becomes less of an issue things will be difficult.  Sure looks like most itineraries scheduled for 2021 are being changed.

As an example, Canada is mostly against opening its borders.  They have stated COVID needs to be "under control" in the US before BC opens.  I have no idea when that happens, but the Victoria BC newspaper suggested not before late spring.  If that is correct, what happens to cruising on West Coast of US?

Real B2B cruises - we have one planned in July - are some months away.  Everything could be very different by then.

[bEwAbG]

The purpose of having short cruises is to get people on and off the ships quickly so if they test positive, there is plausible deniability that it happened during the cruise.  There will not be B2Bs allowed for a while for that reason.

[bigwawao]

On 9/24/2020 at 11:00 PM, phoenix_dream said:

Regarding your first point, the privately owned islands are indeed considered a foreign port as they are technically still part of their original country, at least to my understanding.

 

Regarding your second paragraph, it is not those already at deaths door I am concerned about. Any of us, healthy or not, are at risk of being put at deaths door by Covid.  And if I recall the CDC was in fact talking about requiring ventilators onboard.   Will that be in the final agreement? No one yet knows, but it may well be.

I do realize that they are technically part of a foreign country but as a Port in the definition of the word, it probably is not.  No customs, no immigrations ( not that we really pass thru it like in an airport).  It's private in the very dictionary definition of the word.  It may be zipcode Bahamas but I ( the cruise line) decide who enters, who stays, not the government.  It that is so,  then maybe the lines could set aside their competition and do a 7 day 5 private island cruise?  I, for one would love to hit all the private island in one 7 day cruise!  😂

[bEwAbG]

The "private" islands are still controlled by the host country.  Also, some are really just beaches on larger islands.  They're not free-for-all zones.  The host country's main concern would be that most are staffed with locals who come and go each day, so there is a big possibility of passengers infecting workers who spread it in the local population.  These countries are also dealing with their own issues with the pandemic, so the reverse could be true, too.

[phoenix_dream]

10 hours ago, bigwawao said:

I do realize that they are technically part of a foreign country but as a Port in the definition of the word, it probably is not.  No customs, no immigrations ( not that we really pass thru it like in an airport).  It's private in the very dictionary definition of the word.  It may be zipcode Bahamas but I ( the cruise line) decide who enters, who stays, not the government.  It that is so,  then maybe the lines could set aside their competition and do a 7 day 5 private island cruise?  I, for one would love to hit all the private island in one 7 day cruise!  😂

But the question was regarding whether they would count as a foreign port stop, per the US sailing regulations.  The answer is yes.  

 

I agree it would be nice for the lines to set aside their competition.  Not gonna happen as they are all hurting big time, but it certainly would be nice.  

[TeeRick]

Big week ahead.  Will CDC let the No Sail order expire Sept 30th or extend it?

[C-Dragons]

My guess, extend it until the end of October.

[phoenix_dream]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Big week ahead.  Will CDC let the No Sail order expire Sept 30th or extend it?

And if they do let it expire, which I personally don't think is likely, what types of requirements will accompany permission to sail again?  I keep thinking of their requirement way back in late spring that cruise lines had to find a way to privately get people back home, rather than commercial transportation.  That is a HUGE expense, not to mention a logistical nightmare, for the cruise lines.  And if the cruise lines try to put that expense upon the passengers, I don't see how that is viable at all.  Even if they allowed only US citizens to sail from US ports at first, very few of us could afford to charter a flight home!  I don't see any other way it would work, other than for people who lived within a days drive of the port and could drive their own cars.  Even renting a car and driving further would not satisfy the requirement.   Nor would driving your own personal car more than a days drive as you would need to interact at hotels, gas stations, restaurants (even if fast food).   It will be interesting to see what happens.

[bigwawao]

3 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

But the question was regarding whether they would count as a foreign port stop, per the US sailing regulations.  The answer is yes.  

 

I agree it would be nice for the lines to set aside their competition.  Not gonna happen as they are all hurting big time, but it certainly would be nice.  

United we sail., divided we sink??  After all, we do travel for a week or so to beach resorts.  I still think they should get together and do something like that.  

 

All those local workers should be tested and quarantined as crew before working at the resorts.  They could stay there for a a few months at a time and then sail back to the mainland for a R and R.  Just my thoughts. 

 

Re. The CDC extending it.  Yes- I believe so.  Enough is Enough's panel took their sweet time (?4 months) to come out with the proposal. There is a stinky feeling within me they purposely timed it close to the CDC expiry to put pressure on the CDC.   But it could backfire.  CDC might say, we don't have enough time to evaluate it, so how about no sail till December? 

 

Had they asked Cruise Critic for a recommendation, it would have been out in 4 weeks.  

 

CLIA has a voluntary no sail till November.  So this one month's grace period saves face for both sides.  Actually it was getting boring and ridiculous for cruise lines to continually post (and book) sailing schedules only to cancel it as the month approaches.  CLIA's stating a November start was a tacit admission that the No Sail order might get extended and told members, in effect, don't bother to book cruises for October.

 

Well, since the recommendations are out done by people with Phd's and what not,  cruise lines, if they want to push it,  should NOW publish their protocols- they ones they will actually be using AND ENFORCING- for public viewing. Enough is enough.  Publish them now.  If the CDC comes up with more stringent ones, add.  If not,  then you are showing the CDC and the public that you meant business.  

[Baron Barracuda]

Read through report which seems more an overview than a detailed blueprint ready for submission to CDC.  Identifies issues but lacks specifics on how to deal with them.  For example:

 

CDC was very concerned that outbreak on cruise ship could overwhelm port city hospitals.  They wanted cruise lines to assume full responsibility for treating sick passengers, even to extent of using hospital ships.  Do not see that concern addressed.  Just talks of temporarily caring for sick passengers aboard ship until able to transport them home or to shoreside medical facility.  Risk to local hospitals does not appear to have been alleviated.   

 

There had been many complaints about how after outbreak on Coral Princess passengers had been allowed to disembark and return home without being tested.  This document does talk about evacuation but no specifics on how they plan to identify and isolate infected passengers.  

 

Document talks about performing contact tracing but no details on how they plan to identify everyone a sick person may have been in contact with.  Who sat next to them in restaurant, at bar, in show, at trivia, on excursion, etc?

[davekathy]

On 9/25/2020 at 10:08 AM, gerelmx said:

I know this can be modified but I want to know How this works for passengers on B2B...

be tested for SARS-CoV-2 between 5 days and 24 hours before boarding

How I  will be tested for the 2nd or 3r leg?

 

The cruise line will let you know when/if that time ever comes. We have a Caribbean B2B cruise for March 2021and currently I fully expect the cruises will be a go. Until then...

Edited September 26, 2020 by davekathy

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, davekathy said:

The cruise line will let you know when/if that time ever comes. We have a Caribbean B2B cruise for March 2021and currently I fully expect the cruises will be a go. Until then...

Agreed. Looking forward to our April B2B.

[TeeRick]

I think they will extend it but a bit differently this time.  Perhaps set a firm date (Nov 30?) after which operations can resume again in US waters and ports with a very specific set of guidelines (conditions) which a cruise line must meet and agree to and these will be based on the recently published CLIA recommendations.  They were released for a good reason perhaps.

[phoenix_dream]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I think they will extend it but a bit differently this time.  Perhaps set a firm date (Nov 30?) after which operations can resume again in US waters and ports with a very specific set of guidelines (conditions) which a cruise line must meet and agree to and these will be based on the recently published CLIA recommendations.  They were released for a good reason perhaps.

I'm wondering if they will set any firm dates until there is enough herd immunity to guarantee that breakouts would be rare.  At the same time I guess "firm" depends on the definition.  They could set a firm date and then if cases in the US start spiking heavily again they could always put in place another hold.  Until we have an effective vaccine which is widely distributed I think this may be an up and down roller coaster. 

 

I think one of the biggest deal makers/breakers relates to how they are required to handle infections onboard, and in particular  how they will handle disembarking those passengers infected and/or closely exposed and ultimately getting them home.  For the life of me I can't think of a solution that is both practical and economically feasible.  What are your thoughts on this?  It is my main concern as regards getting back on a ship again.  Mask wearing and social distancing pale by comparison to this issue IMHO.

[Ashland]

1 hour ago, phoenix_dream said:

I'm wondering if they will set any firm dates until there is enough herd immunity to guarantee that breakouts would be rare.  At the same time I guess "firm" depends on the definition.  They could set a firm date and then if cases in the US start spiking heavily again they could always put in place another hold.  Until we have an effective vaccine which is widely distributed I think this may be an up and down roller coaster. 

 

I think one of the biggest deal makers/breakers relates to how they are required to handle infections onboard, and in particular  how they will handle disembarking those passengers infected and/or closely exposed and ultimately getting them home.  For the life of me I can't think of a solution that is both practical and economically feasible.  What are your thoughts on this?  It is my main concern as regards getting back on a ship again.  Mask wearing and social distancing pale by comparison to this issue IMHO.

"Herd Immunity" do you understand just how many more people will have to die from Covid-19 before we reach that point ?

 

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, Ashland said:

"Herd Immunity" do you understand just how many more people will have to die from Covid-19 before we reach that point ?

 

 

You do understand that vaccines produce herd immunity, too?

[phoenix_dream]

17 minutes ago, Ashland said:

"Herd Immunity" do you understand just how many more people will have to die from Covid-19 before we reach that point ?

 

I understand it depends on when we get the vaccines, how effective they are, and how many people get vaccinated, and possibly how many people have had it and have antibodies.  That’s what I understand.

[baldilocks]

We are still wondering how the prior to boarding testing will be done. We are driving to the port with prior stops in FL. That will put us under pressure to find a COVID testing station within 5 days of departure....and how are we going to get the test results that Celebrity will accept when we are traveling? Sounds like another BOHICA moment.

[Ashland]

1 hour ago, markeb said:

 

You do understand that vaccines produce herd immunity, too?

Duh...Yes, I understand completely but assuming the way things are going getting a reliable vaccine to 70% of our population may take sometime.

[Ashland]

52 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I understand it depends on when we get the vaccines, how effective they are, and how many people get vaccinated, and possibly how many people have had it and have antibodies.  That’s what I understand.

Glad you understand that....so we actually agree.

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, Ashland said:

"Herd Immunity" do you understand just how many more people will have to die from Covid-19 before we reach that point ?

 

According to an article from the Brooking's Institute, over a million people in the US alone.

[phoenix_dream]

9 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

According to an article from the Brooking's Institute, over a million people in the US alone.

Haven't seen this article, but I can't imagine we can't get there with the upcoming vaccines before over a million people in the US die.  Consider that we've had roughly 200,000 in more than 6 months (and it probably started even before that),  and that was before we learned the value of masks and social distancing (well, many of us did!), and before we learned better treatment methods.  So even with that rate of infection and death (which should be less going forward for reasons mentioned) it would mean the vaccines would not be widely distributed enough to cause herd immunity for close to 3 years from the start of the epidemic.  It may not happen as soon as I think it will, but I can't imagine it will be another 2 1/2 years or more.