New health guidelines for the future

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

As I have said before we need a vaccine to get back to cruising 

As I had pointed out in above post there are  2 new mutations we are aware that have come on the scene . I do not know for sure ;however , it may be unlikely that the vaccines in progress now will not cover the new mutations .Thus ,if those new mutations spread ,call it covid 2   or a new pandemic , then  the vaccines nor antibodies will not protect people .Additionally at least 70% of the USA population  must be inoculated with a vaccine that is  covering the existing strain/s  .Still a lot of unanswered questions for cruisers going forward ,imo

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, mcrcruiser said:

As I had pointed out in above post there are  2 new mutations we are aware that have come on the scene . I do not know for sure ;however , it may be unlikely that the vaccines in progress now will not cover the new mutations .Thus ,if those new mutations spread ,call it covid 2   or a new pandemic , then  the vaccines nor antibodies will not protect people .Additionally at least 70% of the USA population  must be inoculated with a vaccine that is  covering the existing strain/s  .Still a lot of unanswered questions for cruisers going forward ,imo

What is it about the Covid-19 candidates that makes you think they won't control any mutations?  I'm not sure that the vaccines are strain specific but maybe they are.

[ksheehan16]

13 hours ago, caribill said:

The purpose of everyone wearing masks is not to protect the wearer (although it helps), but to keep an infected person from infecting others by containing droplets from sneezes or coughs within the mask they are wearing. An N95 mask is not required to do that.

 

People who say they are willing to take the risk of not wearing a mask do not realize they are putting others at risk, not themselves.

So what is the point of testing for Covid pre cruise if you are going to assume everyone onboard is infected. Reason and logic need to prevail at some point. If you are not infected then the risk to others is zero. For those under 70 and healthy your survival is similar the the annual flu.

[By The Bay]

40 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

What is it about the Covid-19 candidates that makes you think they won't control any mutations?  I'm not sure that the vaccines are strain specific but maybe they are.

As reported in the SMH.

 

Ian Jones, professor of virology at University of Reading, said: "The danger is that the mutated virus could then spread back into man and evade any vaccine response which would have been designed to the original, non-mutated version."

[caribill]

51 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

What is it about the Covid-19 candidates that makes you think they won't control any mutations?  I'm not sure that the vaccines are strain specific but maybe they are.

 

A discovery by Danish scientists is that SARS-CoV-2, the official name for the virus that causes COVID-19, had mutated in captive minks, producing a strain of the coronavirus that is not readily stopped by antibodies to the dominant strain of the virus.

 

And it has already spread to man:

 

There are currently five reported cases of the new strain in minks and 12 cases in humans.

 

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, memoak said:

As I have said before we need a vaccine to get back to cruising 

And we need it to not only be widely available, but for people to willingly take the shots.

[caribill]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

And we need it to not only be widely available, but for people to willingly take the shots.

 People may be more willing than we think.

 

For this season's flu shots, Walgreens reports that demand for the shots at its stores is up 60% over last year at this time. One doctor in Houston reported that he usually gives about 75% of his patients he sees flu shots, but this hear it has been about 90%.

 

So if the interest in flu shots is significantly higher, so might the interest in Covid-19 vaccinations.

[ontheweb]

5 minutes ago, caribill said:

 People may be more willing than we think.

 

For this season's flu shots, Walgreens reports that demand for the shots at its stores is up 60% over last year at this time. One doctor in Houston reported that he usually gives about 75% of his patients he sees flu shots, but this hear it has been about 90%.

 

So if the interest in flu shots is significantly higher, so might the interest in Covid-19 vaccinations.

There seems to be 2 sets of people who might not take the shot. There are the ones who do not believe in vaccines. And then there are the ones who believe these vaccines were rushed through without the usual test for efficiency or safety.

[Aulanis]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

There seems to be 2 sets of people who might not take the shot. There are the ones who do not believe in vaccines. And then there are the ones who believe these vaccines were rushed through without the usual test for efficiency or safety.

 

There could well be at least one other set- those who will not use the vaccine for religous reasons.

This could be a majority of people in some countries.

[ontheweb]

Just now, Aulanis said:

 

There could well be at least one other set- those who will not use the vaccine for religous reasons.

This could be a majority of people in some countries.

Here in NY State there was a measles outbreak last year. There were 2 exemptions for children entering school to opt out of the vaccine. One was medical; the other was a religious exemption. After the outbreak, the religious exemption was eliminated. And it survived court challenges as NY's highest court held that the state had a legitimate health reason to justify the action.

 

A very young child who is our son's Godchild in all but name could have taken the medical exemption as he has a compromised immune system, but his parents decided while there was the outbreak that taking the shot was less dangerous than being exposed to measles while there was not herd immunity due to those taking the so called religious exemption.

[Daniel A]

49 minutes ago, By The Bay said:

As reported in the SMH.

 

Ian Jones, professor of virology at University of Reading, said: "The danger is that the mutated virus could then spread back into man and evade any vaccine response which would have been designed to the original, non-mutated version."

Thank you for the post but I've never heard of either Ian Jones or the  University of Reading.  Following the science nowadays is like watching the news.  Tune into the channel that tells you what you want to hear.

41 minutes ago, caribill said:

A discovery by Danish scientists is that SARS-CoV-2, the official name for the virus that causes COVID-19, had mutated in captive minks, producing a strain of the coronavirus that is not readily stopped by antibodies to the dominant strain of the virus.

 

And it has already spread to man:

 

There are currently five reported cases of the new strain in minks and 12 cases in humans.

 

As I understand it, there is a huge difference between antibody therapy and vaccines.  Instead of replicating Chicken Little, why don't we just sit back, take a deep breath and see what develops in the next few weeks instead of forecasting doom & gloom?  After all, did the Danish scientists say the new SARS-CoV-2 strain produced COrona VIrus Disease?

[By The Bay]

59 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Thank you for the post but I've never heard of either Ian Jones or the  University of Reading.

Here is a link for your edification.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

 

As I understand it, there is a huge difference between antibody therapy and vaccines.  Instead of replicating Chicken Little, why don't we just sit back, take a deep breath and see what develops in the next few weeks instead of forecasting doom & gloom? 

 

One thing for sure, none of the vaccine testing so far has included testing for someone who may have been exposed to this new strain.

[ksheehan16]

On 11/7/2020 at 4:08 PM, nocl said:

Studies have shown in low virus environments (which is what most people face, if there are not in a medical center treating Covid patients) non-N95 masks doing quite well.

Where I live masks have been mandatory since mid July and, I think this is true most everywhere in the US and the world. If masks are working so well then why do cases continue to climb everywhere? Common sense says that masks are not doing much. We are into a normal flu season now where sickness and hospitalizations always increase every year. All virus is now Covid, flu has disappeared.

[nocl]

10 minutes ago, ksheehan16 said:

Where I live masks have been mandatory since mid July and, I think this is true most everywhere in the US and the world. If masks are working so well then why do cases continue to climb everywhere? Common sense says that masks are not doing much. We are into a normal flu season now where sickness and hospitalizations always increase every year. All virus is now Covid, flu has disappeared.

because

 

1. even with the mask requirements some people do not follow them

2. people continue to visit with family and friends assuming that they are safe, but it only takes one in a non masked, non socially distant to infect several

3. the mask rules don't help during inside dining, if the restaurant in not well ventilated.

 

and so forth

 

for mask to work everyone must wear them whenever they are close to others friend, family, co workers, etc. they must also wear them correctly. they must also socially distance  they must also practice good hygiene.

 

There are several studies that have looked at mask use, and have found that it does impact infections quite a bit. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by nocl

[ksheehan16]

23 minutes ago, nocl said:

1. even with the mask requirements some people do not follow them

2. people continue to visit with family and friends assuming that they are safe, but it only takes one in a non masked, non socially distant to infect several

3. the mask rules don't help during inside dining, if the restaurant in not well ventilated.

 

and so forth

 

for mask to work everyone must wear them whenever they are close to others friend, family, co workers, etc. they must also wear them correctly. they must also socially distance  they must also practice good hygiene.

 

There are several studies that have looked at mask use, and have found that it does impact infections quite a bit. 

What do you propose? Everybody stay away from everybody else from now on. All for a virus that has a death rate not much different that the annual flu( for 20 and under much less affected than the annual flu). And, there are many studies released since the 1950's that indicate masks are of little use. 

[nocl]

6 hours ago, Daniel A said:

What is it about the Covid-19 candidates that makes you think they won't control any mutations?  I'm not sure that the vaccines are strain specific but maybe they are.

the current vaccines are not strain specific as long as the strains use the horns and the same receptors to infect new cells. fortunately covid has been pretty stable so far with the mutations being minor ones.

 

The Denmark strain is different in that the mutation resulted from going from humans to mink back to humans and apparently resulted in different receptor expression. Not unusual in going from one species to another.

[nocl]

37 minutes ago, ksheehan16 said:

What do you propose? Everybody stay away from everybody else from now on. All for a virus that has a death rate not much different that the annual flu( for 20 and under much less affected than the annual flu). And, there are many studies released since the 1950's that indicate masks are of little use. 

I would expect that people follow the mask recommendations and social distancing. if they actually want them to work. that does not mean as you put having to stay apart forever, but it does mean following social distancing and mask guidelines when with others, instead of not following them and saying they don't work.

 

And how would they have studied masks with covid 19 since 1955. clearly the studies, if they exist, were on other illness and if this outbreak has taught one thing covid is not like other illnesses. most other illnesses are not infectious without symptoms. As a result most can be controlled by anyone with symptoms just staying away from others. of course many do not follow that advice either.

 

with covid many cases are infectious without symptoms developing. Some studies indicate that people that do develop symptoms are most infectious the day before symptoms develop. As a result there is no way to tell who might be infectious or not. Consequently to control the infection rates everyone must assume that they could be infectious and wear a mask and distance to protect others, as well as treat anyone  they come in contact that they could be infectious and wear masks and distance.

 

When find a study about masks and covid 19 prior to 2020 let me know. that would be an event in itself.

[caribill]

2 hours ago, nocl said:

with covid many cases are infectious without symptoms developing.

 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/patient-with-coronavirus-shed-virus-for-70-days-2020-11

[caribill]

3 hours ago, ksheehan16 said:

All for a virus that has a death rate not much different that the annual flu( for 20 and under much less affected than the annual flu).

The death rate may be about the same, but the number of cases is significantly higher for Covid-19 and thus many more deaths at the same death rate.

 

So far in about eight months 238,000 people in the USA have died from Covid-19 and its complications. Per the CDC in 2019 there were about 22,000 deaths in the USA from flu and its complications. So Covid-19 is killing over 10 times the number of people that flu does.

 

In about eight months time it is if the entire population of cities such as Lubbock, Texas or Irvine, California or Winston-Salem, North Carolina or Baton Rouge, Louisiana had disappeared.

 

Quote

And, there are many studies released since the 1950's that indicate masks are of little use. 

 

And how many of those studies were about masks being of little use against Covid-19 which did not exist for all but one of the last 70 years of studies you are referencing?

[Roger88]

No matter what you guys are thinking and where you get your information, meanwhile over 50 million people world wide have caught new Covid infection. US alone has like 50+ villion people infected or something and over 100k deaths.. its rediculous 

[Skai]

5 hours ago, ksheehan16 said:

What do you propose? Everybody stay away from everybody else from now on. All for a virus that has a death rate not much different that the annual flu( for 20 and under much less affected than the annual flu). And, there are many studies released since the 1950's that indicate masks are of little use. 

 

I'm still not sure if I ought to be amazed at this repeated line of thinking.  -- Somewhere in between flat-earth theory and chem-trails.

 

Covid is much much more contagious than the annual flu.  

 

The more you know...

[KirkNC]

7 hours ago, ksheehan16 said:

What do you propose? Everybody stay away from everybody else from now on. All for a virus that has a death rate not much different that the annual flu( for 20 and under much less affected than the annual flu). And, there are many studies released since the 1950's that indicate masks are of little use. 

Keep following those 70 year old studies 🙄😳🙄

[NSWP]

On 11/7/2020 at 3:40 AM, ontheweb said:

Have any of the cruise lines said what limited capacity really means? Is it 50%? Or 30%? Or 10%? 

Re limited capacity, what would  Princess do about the future world cruise bookings from USA/Australia which appear to be 99% booked out?  Are they going to cancel some folks bookings? to get rid of 10%, 30% or 50% of the pax? The mind boggles !!

[Aus Traveller]

53 minutes ago, NSWP said:

Re limited capacity, what would  Princess do about the future world cruise bookings from USA/Australia which appear to be 99% booked out?  Are they going to cancel some folks bookings? to get rid of 10%, 30% or 50% of the pax? The mind boggles !!

For a cruise in mid 2022, vaccination is the answer, not limited capacity. 🙂