Just in case anyone had doubts about whom Celebrity are targeting with their "Always Included" &" New Luxury" branding

[JKHawaii]

Reading through this blog, I see that X has confused folks with their slick marketing touting "luxury" or certain demographics, when it's really just about economics.

 

Today, my Apex cruise in January 2022 would now cost twice what I paid earlier this year.  I don't need the drink package or internet for 2, but I am now forced to pay and X collects the profit.

 

As for "luxury", they will be the same mega-ships with the same cabins, same staff, and probably same ole food.

 

So, if the young or the old want these amenities or don't mind paying for amenities they may or may not use, go for it!  Personally, I'll look elsewhere.

[markeb]

4 hours ago, basenji56 said:

 

Is this out there already? Or proposed marketing? I haven't seen it, but I haven't been looking.

 

This strikes me as internal, and probably after trying to focus group different demographics and what would bring them to cruising. It also looks kind of like a "first cut" to me, so I hope it's not in use! I don't think they're trying to bring in a new cruiser who's going to do multiple long cruises a year, although I'm sure they'd like to hook them for down the road. Maybe couples who did all inclusives before kids and might want to try something different. Or have done major city vacations with highly rated restaurants, museums, and hotels with spas. Vegas, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, etc. And may be in a position to pay for the more expensive cabins, including suites, and find it attractive to basically pay one price and be done. Largely because they're not yet big time cruisers, and would likely go into it thinking this is another one and done experience, and X would be happy to have them take one cruise, or one every 3-5 years.

 

There's a lot there that would be directed at my wife and I, but we honestly replaced cruising with land based travel, either in the US (3 hour train ride to New York) or Europe (7 hour flight to London). And many of our current dream vacations are too far inland for an ocean cruise, and we'd have to study river cruises more to see how Bordeaux or the Loire Valley would work, for instance. Or get the invitations our local wine pusher can get for us and go back to Napa and Sonoma, only this time consider going to one of Keller's restaurants, even if we can't get reservations or don't want to pay for the French Laundry. We're able to do actual culinary exploration in Michelin restaurants, for instance, We probably found the shipboard specialty dining better before we reached an age and income where that was possible, and even routine (until 2020 struck).

 

We took our first modern cruise in 2004 on HAL (not counting an interesting Greek cruise in the early '90s on a very old Italian ship), another in on HAL in 2006. For all the jokes, and too much truth, about HAL, we really enjoyed a lot of their shipboard product, and the Pinnacle Grill of that era, with a true sommelier (maybe even master) curated wine list, is my favorite specialty dining experience on any ship. We then cruised several years in a row on RCI until the rotator cuff told me my Flowrider days were over. Without the 20+ year experience on X, we've loved both of our X cruises, but skipped a year to go to Europe, and at that time still had living parents to visit, and postponed an Edge cruise pre-covid for other health reasons. Our next planned cruise is a longer Southern Caribbean cruise in a Sky Suite in 2022 after the delays. We're 2-3 years from retirement, and our financial guy keeps telling us we'll be able to enjoy life. Both of our mothers ended life with little or no assets, but they were also in the generation that depended on SS and defined benefit programs as a teacher and a long time state government employee, so we're both pretty cautious on that planning.

 

The folks this campaign would be directed at have none of the history discussed on this thread. If they're working and travel for work corporately, they may have brand loyalty to some extent for air and hotel (or they could be in the least cost travel world), and appreciate (or did) those perks, but may not associate them with a cruise vacation. And they're either going to be wowed on the ship or not on its own merits, not historical reference as many on this board.

 

Sorry, that got long!

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, tfred said:

Ever sat in a marketing presentation?  These are common words, but that doesnt mean that is the marketing plan.  Simplified it means, they want to have a variety of food options, like to use the spa for more than a massage and want to come back if the value proposition is fulfilled

Simple I am not.  I understand Marketing....breaking the words down that's what is intended...at face value, words are just that...HYPE and there are some who don't look beyond and buy into the presentation and are disappointed.

 

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, basenji56 said:

 

I sure wish Celebrity went back to buying shows rather than creating them in house.  I walk out on half of those shows. All they are is a bunch of modern pop songs strung together into something they call a show.  No real narrative.    

DD was an entertainer on many cruise ships with 'purchased' shows.....they were great.  I see quite a difference between them and what is offered now.  Still enjoy them however...the cast works their little tails off entertaining us.

[Baron Barracuda]

2 hours ago, tfred said:

Regent and Silversea are luxury - no way that X is that (or will ever be) as it is two steps up and they know that. X wants to poach the Viking Ocean crowd (Premium) that is looking for a big boat experience (big shows, multiple specialty restaurants etc) but can retreat to their own private area.  X has Azamara for those looking at a smaller ship experience

 

Most pax would don't know what lines are slotted where by pecking order.  No one wants to be HAL these days - price driven, older, non revenue producing pax. Why try to slog it out with Princess for the same customer ?

Have you actually sailed VO?  Not big boats (930 passengers), not big shows (Sky only had 4 person performance troupe), two specialty restaurants which are included in base fare and no private area for suites.  Food and service still well above X.

[markeb]

1 hour ago, basenji56 said:

 

I sure wish Celebrity went back to buying shows rather than creating them in house.  I walk out on half of those shows. All they are is a bunch of modern pop songs strung together into something they call a show.  No real narrative.    

 

That's been the complaint of the so-called "Jukebox Musicals" on Broadway for years. Jersey Boys, Rock of Ages, and so on. Pretty much all wildly successful, but not necessarily a great narrative. And sold out.

 

It really shouldn't surprise anyone that cruise lines would follow the same path. Royal Caribbean currently has 3 out of 6 of their Broadway productions that could be considered Jukebox musicals (Grease and Hairspray are in a way, but maybe not; CATS definitely isn't!). Probably much cheaper, and many playgoers have become used to them.

 

It's not like they're going to bring Hamilton on the ship...

[basenji56]

3 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

That's been the complaint of the so-called "Jukebox Musicals" on Broadway for years. Jersey Boys, Rock of Ages, and so on. Pretty much all wildly successful, but not necessarily a great narrative. And sold out.

 

It really shouldn't surprise anyone that cruise lines would follow the same path. Royal Caribbean currently has 3 out of 6 of their Broadway productions that could be considered Jukebox musicals (Grease and Hairspray are in a way, but maybe not; CATS definitely isn't!). Probably much cheaper, and many playgoers have become used to them.

 

It's not like they're going to bring Hamilton on the ship...

 

I don't necessarily mind Jukebox musicals--but those on Celebrity are just awful.  Very busy with a lot of sound and fury.    And they stay on the ship for five years.  

 

[basenji56]

7 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Have you actually sailed VO?  Not big boats (930 passengers), not big shows (Sky only had 4 person performance troupe), two specialty restaurants which are included in base fare and no private area for suites.  Food and service still well above X.

I totally agree with you.  I liked the performance troupes very much.  And the Cruise Director was an opera singer and did a wonderful concert.  Food was fantastic--buffet and sit down restaurants.  But, it is generally much more expensive.  Or at least it WAS more expensive--might be comparable now that Celebrity is "luxury."

 

 

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

 

I don't necessarily mind Jukebox musicals--but those on Celebrity are just awful.  Very busy with a lot of sound and fury.    And they stay on the ship for five years.  

 

 

Apparently not very memorable, either. I do remember going to shows on our two Celebrity cruises. Not all of them, though, and I just don't remember those. Or we're just at the break point age wise where they were songs we liked (not likely)!

 

I do remember the Beatles tribute band that was very good!

[ChucktownSteve]

Too bad Celebrity can't look at themselves through the eyes of their customers

Edited November 17, 2020 by ChucktownSteve

[basenji56]

1 minute ago, markeb said:

 

Apparently not very memorable, either. I do remember going to shows on our two Celebrity cruises. Not all of them, though, and I just don't remember those. Or we're just at the break point age wise where they were songs we liked (not likely)!

 

I do remember the Beatles tribute band that was very good!

Surely you must remember Topper?  The guy who lived in a big red hat?  The performers were fine and worked very hard.  The material is just not memorable.  

[markeb]

1 minute ago, basenji56 said:

Surely you must remember Topper?  The guy who lived in a big red hat?  The performers were fine and worked very hard.  The material is just not memorable.  

 

I don't. We've only done a couple of Celebrity cruises so far in 2016 and 2018. We burned out on cruise ship shows a while back. One cruise was in AQ and the other in a Sky Suite, so no set seating time for dinner, and we'd rather eat at 7-7:30 or so, which typically makes going to the shows more complicated. Usually try to hit the first night, and watch for specialty shows that interest us. We're RC Diamond/X Elite and have done behind the scenes tours and recognize the talent of the performers, but haven't been impressed with the material they get to work with.

[grandgeezer]

36 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

I don't. We've only done a couple of Celebrity cruises so far in 2016 and 2018. We burned out on cruise ship shows a while back. One cruise was in AQ and the other in a Sky Suite, so no set seating time for dinner, and we'd rather eat at 7-7:30 or so, which typically makes going to the shows more complicated. Usually try to hit the first night, and watch for specialty shows that interest us. We're RC Diamond/X Elite and have done behind the scenes tours and recognize the talent of the performers, but haven't been impressed with the material they get to work with.

This came to be several years ago when Celebrity found it was much cheaper to handle their own productions shows than have it professionally produced. You get what you paid for. 

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, markeb said:

 

Is this out there already? Or proposed marketing? I haven't seen it, but I haven't been looking.

 

This strikes me as internal, and probably after trying to focus group different demographics and what would bring them to cruising. It also looks kind of like a "first cut" to me, so I hope it's not in use! I don't think they're trying to bring in a new cruiser who's going to do multiple long cruises a year, although I'm sure they'd like to hook them for down the road. Maybe couples who did all inclusives before kids and might want to try something different. Or have done major city vacations with highly rated restaurants, museums, and hotels with spas. Vegas, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, etc. And may be in a position to pay for the more expensive cabins, including suites, and find it attractive to basically pay one price and be done. Largely because they're not yet big time cruisers, and would likely go into it thinking this is another one and done experience, and X would be happy to have them take one cruise, or one every 3-5 years.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, that got long!

To answer your question, yes it is real, and it is out there. The “campaign” started today.

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, basenji56 said:

Surely you must remember Topper?  The guy who lived in a big red hat?  The performers were fine and worked very hard.  The material is just not memorable.  

That was one I saw more than a few times...and didn't like it.  But yes....these performers deserve an appreciative audience.

[Bobsgonecoastal]

On 11/14/2020 at 3:43 PM, Velvetwater said:

In time, they might start targeting us millennials and Gen Xers eliters will be peeved.

 

And so it goes on and on...

 

My cruise style is no loyalty whatsoever. I go with locations and price.

Looks like we’ll be adopting your “cruise style”.  After being 95% loyal to C, and earning E+ loyalty status, it seems loyalty only runs one way.

contrary to several comments I read on this thread, not all Elite Plus cruisers are cheapskate passengers who offer low profit margins.  We have always sailed Aqua and spend generously while onboard.  We tend to be more than generous tippers as well. 
 

in one way, this change will free us to book other cruise lines, particularly the

”True Luxury Lines” we have been wanting to sail.  we’ll give up any future loyalty, and will focus on destinations and price.  Every cruiser for him/her self.

[basenji56]

2 minutes ago, Bobsgonecoastal said:

 

in one way, this change will free us to book other cruise lines, particularly the

”True Luxury Lines” we have been wanting to sail.  we’ll give up any future loyalty, and will focus on destinations and price.  Every cruiser for him/her self.

Agree with you about their devaluing of the accrued status.

 

I tried Viking Ocean and loved it.  Plan to try Oceania in October.  Booked Crystal for 2022 but got cold feet because of possible bankruptcy by its parent company.

 

Would consider Regent but because we don't drink, it seems overpriced.

 

[Orator]

5 minutes ago, Bobsgonecoastal said:

Looks like we’ll be adopting your “cruise style”.  After being 95% loyal to C, and earning E+ loyalty status, it seems loyalty only runs one way.

contrary to several comments I read on this thread, not all Elite Plus cruisers are cheapskate passengers who offer low profit margins.  We have always sailed Aqua and spend generously while onboard.  We tend to be more than generous tippers as well. 
 

in one way, this change will free us to book other cruise lines, particularly the

”True Luxury Lines” we have been wanting to sail.  we’ll give up any future loyalty, and will focus on destinations and price.  Every cruiser for him/her self.

Just booked Crystal for a 24 day Amazon cruise in October, 2021 and I have 106 cruises with Celebrity. Don't know how much I will cruise with them in the future.

[Redtravel]

Elite + and will never get to Zenith.   I have sailed many times on X.  Last X cruise was Jan. 2019. It was the only real 2 week Caribbean cruise that year. None in 2020. Shorter cruises attract younger people who spend more money.  I enjoyed most of my X cruises.   It's been a very long time since I got any emails.  Last week I got a postcard that scan code. I don't scan. You can't get me interested if you don't send info. Reading the target group is gen Xers makes sense.  With so many vacation options, Celebrity should try to keep repeat cruisers.  I may be 70+, but not dead yet. the virus hasn't killed me yet.  As soon as a safe vaccine is widely administered and countries open, I will be traveling.  I have money and I intend to spend it.

[markeb]

17 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

To answer your question, yes it is real, and it is out there. The “campaign” started today.

Wow!  Marketing demographic aside, it doesn’t even look good or read well. 
 

Again, late boomer, so in that crossover group for marketing. That needed work. I think I get their mark, and if so, that misses!

[C-Dragons]

1 minute ago, markeb said:

Wow!  Marketing demographic aside, it doesn’t even look good or read well. 
 

Again, late boomer, so in that crossover group for marketing. That needed work. I think I get their mark, and if so, that misses!

It's all a lot of “noise” to me.

I don’t pay a lot of attention to pretty pictures and sound bites in marketing ads.

I judge a Company by first hand experience.

Do they deliver a product that suits me and makes me want to experience it again and again?

Or do they disappoint so that it's one and done? 

[basenji56]

https://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/What-Advisors-Need-to-Know-About-Celebritys-New-All-Inclusive-Fares

 

Celebrity built the new fares with the help of an outside consulting agency that helped them reaffirm what they already knew about their brand.

“We made the decision when we had to take this pause way back in March and April to use the time to get an outside consultant and really figure out where we should be, what we should be doing differently, who should we be marketing to, etc.” Ritzenthaler said.

“Usually we don’t have time to do these things. We hired a consultant and did a lot of things that validated what we already knew. We want the comeback to be stronger than the setback.”

 

Advisor commissions
Non-commissionable fare components have long been a thorn-in-the-side for travel advisors everywhere. With the new fares, Celebrity is now giving advisors the opportunity to earn commission on items that they were never able to before.

“It was absolutely a factor in the decision,” Ritzenthaler said. “Because we absolutely have the success of travel advisors as one of our pillars.”

“The customer loves it because it gives them choice, the advisor loves it because of what it does for the customer and because it’s financially better for them, and we love it because we get it right for both of those groups.”

With the new fares, Celebrity advisors will now be able to earn commission on tips, WiFi, and beverage packages, onboard credit, and shorex credit, depending on what package that client books, something that was never available before.

 

 

[SolocruiserMA]

On 11/16/2020 at 12:40 PM, Orator said:

How many vacation weeks do you have? Do you believe that your generation will develop loyalty to any one line? I love to see a mixture of demographics on a ship as it makes it more likely I can learn from others.

 

I receive 4 weeks paid vacation, 10 floating days PTO, 11 holidays per year, plus my birthday off. More time than I can generally even use so it builds up in my vacation bank. My balance is currently nearly 9 weeks PTO After 11 years with my firm. 

 

I usually take 2 10 day cruises plus a trip to Asia or Europe for a week. I'm very brand loyal. Once I find a brand that pleases me, I'd rather trust in them and worry about bigger fish in life. I only fly BA for example regardless of price. I know how they work, they know me, easy peasy. 

 

Celebrity got me to at least try out the Edge for a week. We shall see. 

[markeb]

4 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

It's all a lot of “noise” to me.

I don’t pay a lot of attention to pretty pictures and sound bites in marketing ads.

I judge a Company by first hand experience.

Do they deliver a product that suits me and makes me want to experience it again and again?

Or do they disappoint so that it's one and done? 

That’s great, and I’m the same, but you can’t apply that if you’re targeting first timers. They probably won’t commit on your marketing, but hopefully they’ll follow up with family, friends, etc. But not that!

[MarinerBoy]

On 11/16/2020 at 10:46 AM, Baron Barracuda said:

Working folks receive a limited number of vacation days each year so  If X is serious about focusing on younger cruisers they will likely have to shorten most sailings to 7 nights or less.   That would be a shame as we have always enjoyed longer itineraries.  Really miss the 14 night Southern Caribbean sailings they used to offer on Eclipse.

 

Working folks? What is this the 1960s? Working class is long gone, millennial and gen-zs are entrepreneurs. Most of us make money online, social media, video gaming, streaming, drop boxing, owning business.. nonone works 9 to 5, people have freedom and flexibility. Oh and more money than any other generation, we can go on vacations as we please.. take a look what Virgin is doing and Celebrity is following suit. Younger people are richer and have more free time than ever in our history.