Just in case anyone had doubts about whom Celebrity are targeting with their "Always Included" &" New Luxury" branding

[UnorigionalName]

2 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

Not a hill for me to die on, for the most part, yet the following International Passenger Airlines have exclusive First Class Cabins, rather one can or does fly any of these carriers is a very different discussion. We all have our 'preferred carriers' which may or may not offer this exclusive service, then of course we can assert our thoughts on it as such.

 

Japan Airlines, Swiss Int'l, Lufthansa, Qatar Air, Garuda, Air France, Etihad, Cathay Pacific, Emirates and Singapore Air.

 

bon voyage

 

There's some more that still have first class.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_class_(aviation)#Operators

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

21 hours ago, MarinerBoy said:

 

I don't think anyone here believes first class travel "any time" we want is available to 99% of posters here..  last time I checked a transatlantic first class tickets goes for 8k per person, traveling that 2x ppl several times a year will set you back a cool 50k a year just in air tickets. No one here has the type of retirement money to blow 50k a year purely on air, no one. 

 

So please ease off on the bragging and gross over generalizations we know when it comes to dollars and real figures peoples claims don't add up.

 

No one is claiming it is available to 99% of the posters here.  However, it is available to savvy posters who make use of mileage generating airline credit cards.  I've taken four trips to Europe in first class paid for by miles.  I don't believe people are bragging.  They are just stating what is possible.  You can choose to take advantage of the advice here or not.  Your choice.  You can also obtain excellent one-way first class airfares to Europe through Choice Air or Celebrity Air or whatever they're currently calling themselves.

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

43 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Please advise where you can get 5% on your million dollars

 

Plenty of places.  I currently own some bank notes that pay 7%.

[terrydtx]

It sounds to me that someone in this thread is jealous of us seasoned citizens who have a very nice retirement portfolio and can afford to travel in first or business class when we fly internationally or on  longer domestic flights. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by terrydtx

[grandgeezer]

It's not for the faint of heart, but equities, over time would put any cash investments to shame. Since the first of the year, through this past Monday, my IRA is up about 19%. $1,000,000+, plus appreciation is not too shabby. Over the 19 years we've been retired, the initial amount has over tripled. 

My certified financial planner (my brother) has pleaded with me to move some into safer investments but I'm willing to take the chance.

I've by playing this game for over 30 years and I've ridden this elevator up and down several times.

If the bottom falls out of the market again, as long as the banks, and other regulated financial institutions are still FDIC insured,  we have enough with them to live up to our current life style until our family plants us.

 

[Bo1953]

21 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

It sounds to me that someone in this thread is jealous of us seasoned citizens who have a very nice retirement portfolio and can afford to travel in first or business class when we fly internationally or on  longer domestic flights. 

t - actually, I do not believe the mb is jealous, per se, vs interacting with a concentrated group of individuals who may be able to afford such discretionary luxury or discuss it to a great degree like some of us do here, which is fine.

 

I accept that mb will come to understand how some of us post on CC... reality and all.

 

bon voyage

[Pinboy]

16 hours ago, MarinerBoy said:

NO ONE has 20 million and goes on cruise ships.

Why Not ???  Some people might have worked hard , invested smartly, or inherited it. 

( I'm still waiting for an inheritance of $30 million dollars left to me by a " relative " in Africa that I never even heard of ).  

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Pinboy

[Spif Barwunkel]

Sometimes the words just fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. No matter.

[Jazzbo]

22 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Before you start lambasting anyone who prefers to fly to Europe on Business class, know your facts. I am not bragging but making a point. We are flying in May 2021 from San Antonio to Venice RT on Delta Business class for $2760 per person. Our Business class seats in August from SAT to Barcelona and home to SAT from Lisbon are $2300 pp RT. I would never pay 8K per person. So for 4 RT Business class seats we are paying a little over $10K no where near the $50k you quoted. Both Delta flights next year are a little less than $1000 pp over coach or Delta Comfort fares, which is very easy to afford. We booked both also through Celebrity Air and saved a couple hundred dollars over the Delta online pricing. We also booked early when the flights first opened and the prices were the lowest. I will be waiting for your apology.

Wow, those are excellent fares!  I've been looking at Delta R/T to Amsterdam next summer, and Delta One is $4068 or $3864, more than double the cost of Premium Economy at $1722. We could afford that, but I can't justify spending that much more.

[ChucktownSteve]

16 hours ago, MarinerBoy said:

 

Are you kidding me, again I don't buy it. You can't seriously believe this, 50k  year on flights? People retire with 1 million in a bank at 5% interest you get 50k paid total a year. You can't spend all of it on just flights..  what about all the 99.99% other spending? Someone who can afford to spend 50k a year on flights must generate 1 million annually on an on going basis. Who here has a pension plan that pays them 1 million a year? To get 1 mill a year at a decent rate of 5% you will need to have 20 million dollars saved. NO ONE has 20 million and goes on cruise ships.

 

With all due respect, I don't know anyone who has their entire portfolio sitting in a bank.  Someone who has $1 Million invested in their IRA at age 72, if they haven't already begun taking it, has an IRS mandate to withdraw a RMD of at least $44K/year.  That doesn't include their portfolio increases, both spouses getting their Social Security payments or their non retirement monies.  Consider their house and cars are paid for.  The kids are grown and their living overhead is really minimal.

 

I know you've not been there yet so just understand that your analysis is really off base. The cruising seniors have more disposable money than you realize. And we spend it any way we like including more cruises and first/business class if that's what we want. I've never seen a U-haul truck filled with money following the hearse. Which means you can't take it with you.

[ChucktownSteve]

1 hour ago, grandgeezer said:

It's not for the faint of heart, but equities, over time would put any cash investments to shame. Since the first of the year, through this past Monday, my IRA is up about 19%. $1,000,000+, plus appreciation is not too shabby. Over the 19 years we've been retired, the initial amount has over tripled. 

My certified financial planner (my brother) has pleaded with me to move some into safer investments but I'm willing to take the chance.

I've by playing this game for over 30 years and I've ridden this elevator up and down several times.

If the bottom falls out of the market again, as long as the banks, and other regulated financial institutions are still FDIC insured,  we have enough with them to live up to our current life style until our family plants us.

 

 

WELL DONE.  My YTD is up only 11% but I have 26% sitting in cash waiting for a major correction so I can pounce again.

[basenji56]

9 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

With all due respect, I don't know anyone who has their entire portfolio sitting in a bank.  Someone who has $1 Million invested in their IRA at age 72, if they haven't already begun taking it, has an IRS mandate to withdraw a RMD of at least $44K/year.  That doesn't include their portfolio increases, both spouses getting their Social Security payments or their non retirement monies.  Consider their house and cars are paid for.  The kids are grown and their living overhead is really minimal.

 

I know you've not been there yet so just understand that your analysis is really off base. The cruising seniors have more disposable money than you realize. And we spend it any way we like including more cruises and first/business class if that's what we want. I've never seen a U-haul truck filled with money following the hearse. Which means you can't take it with you.

 

And, bringing us back to the title of this thread:

 

This is why cruise lines court this demographic rather than young couples with kids worrying about child care costs and paying their mortgage and car loans.

 

 

[Orator]

2 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

 

And, bringing us back to the title of this thread:

 

This is why cruise lines court this demographic rather than young couples with kids worrying about child care costs and paying their mortgage and car loans.

 

 

But Celebrity seems to have shifted their focus away from this group and I see that as a critical error.

 

[basenji56]

7 minutes ago, Orator said:

But Celebrity seems to have shifted their focus away from this group and I see that as a critical error.

 

As has been said, Celebrity seems to believe that there are huge numbers of techie kids without children just waiting to cruise on Celebrity--if only Celebrity would just throw grandma and grandpa overboard.

 

[C-Dragons]

8 minutes ago, Orator said:

But Celebrity seems to have shifted their focus away from this group and I see that as a critical error.

 

X can shift their focus to whomever they wish.

It won't stop us from sailing with them. We'll still have a great time on board.

YMMV. 

[Orator]

3 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

X can shift their focus to whomever they wish.

It won't stop us from sailing with them. We'll still have a great time on board.

YMMV. 

Hope you are both doing well. I know you love cruising and come across a "go with the flow" people. I admire that and wish I could be more like you. I once never thought that there would be anything that would pull me away from Celebrity. Most certainly the demographics don't matter to me.  I do many projects in retirement that involve young people of various ages. I have many close relationships with people in their 30's. I love to talk to younger people so I can "stay in tune". But, my perceived view that Celebrity no longer feels that I am no longer a part of their plan really bothers me. Perhaps it shouldn't but it does. Every call I get from Celebrity starts with the phrase that: "We appreciate your loyalty." I know we are in tough times and businesses are in a fight for survival. I can wait for the time we control Covid and see if things change. Don't tell me that you appreciate my loyalty, show it.

[basenji56]

7 minutes ago, Orator said:

Hope you are both doing well. I know you love cruising and come across a "go with the flow" people. I admire that and wish I could be more like you. I once never thought that there would be anything that would pull me away from Celebrity. Most certainly the demographics don't matter to me.  I do many projects in retirement that involve young people of various ages. I have many close relationships with people in their 30's. I love to talk to younger people so I can "stay in tune". But, my perceived view that Celebrity no longer feels that I am no longer a part of their plan really bothers me. Perhaps it shouldn't but it does. Every call I get from Celebrity starts with the phrase that: "We appreciate your loyalty." I know we are in tough times and businesses are in a fight for survival. I can wait for the time we control Covid and see if things change. Don't tell me that you appreciate my loyalty, show it.

 

I really don't care about the age of the passengers either.  However, music is a different thing.  I don't want to cruise on a line focused on rap music or modern R&B autotune music (where the singers sound like robots).  I'm sure its wonderful music, but its not my preference.  

 

[scubagal44]

25 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

As has been said, Celebrity seems to believe that there are huge numbers of techie kids without children just waiting to cruise on Celebrity--if only Celebrity would just throw grandma and grandpa overboard.

 

 

To that point, while I'm not a "techie kid," I do live in Silicon Valley and there are so many of us with a good amount of disposable income who have no interest in having children.  I'm an older millenial, husband is a younger GenX, and we have plenty of people in our social circle who fit the same description.  People our age aren't chomping at the bit to have kids anymore and, personally, for us that means we vacation 3-4 times per year around the world instead.  I do think Celebrity is smart to try and bring in people who fit my demographic.

We've only cruised once on X and enjoyed it immensely, so they'll make the short-list of options if/when we cruise again.  

[basenji56]

1 minute ago, scubagal44 said:

 

To that point, while I'm not a "techie kid," I do live in Silicon Valley and there are so many of us with a good amount of disposable income who have no interest in having children.  I'm an older millenial, husband is a younger GenX, and we have plenty of people in our social circle who fit the same description.  People our age aren't chomping at the bit to have kids anymore and, personally, for us that means we vacation 3-4 times per year around the world instead.  I do think Celebrity is smart to try and bring in people who fit my demographic.

We've only cruised once on X and enjoyed it immensely, so they'll make the short-list of options if/when we cruise again.  

I have said this before, but Virgin Voyages seems like a better fit for your demographic.

 

But, I'm sure Celebrity will welcome bookings from anyone with the money to cruise.

 

I enjoyed my one Disney cruise but I know I am not the target demographic since I have no kids.

 

 

[TeeRick]

I think we are all part of the current plan if they want to make money and survive.  That being said, this thread is more about our feelings I think.  Some are realizing a harsh reality. Current experienced (ahem...older) cruisers (like me and dw) that have sailed them quite a lot perhaps feel some sense of one way loyalty (us to them - but not vice versa).  But with all of our loyalty benefits we cost more to them on every cruise.  Yes we have spent a boatload with them in the past but that ended with last year's P&L financial statement.  That is the business reality.  They care about future earnings not past earnings.  They care about attracting future passengers particularly a new generation of cruisers who will be enthusiastic and spend all the money that we did (or are still doing).  Did anybody think they designed these fancy new ships like Edge and Apex just for us?  How many of us current cruisers here have talked about S-Class being preferred instead? Eventually we will not be sailing as often, then not at all someday.  Who will replace us?  These marketing campaigns are always to attract the next generation.  They already have us.  Maybe some of us will go away feeling unappreciated.  But they know we will all not go away.  But they absolutely need the next generation to build and expand future revenue.  So it is a balance.

[UnorigionalName]

9 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

I have said this before, but Virgin Voyages seems like a better fit for your demographic.

 

But, I'm sure Celebrity will welcome bookings from anyone with the money to cruise.

 

I enjoyed my one Disney cruise but I know I am not the target demographic since I have no kids.

 

 

 

Ehhh, I think while there is some overlap, there is a clear difference in marketing between the 2.  It feels a little condescending to think that everyone <40yrs old belongs in one demographic.

 

VV is going more for the vegas/spring break clubbing/partying vibe.

 

I think CC is going more for the slightly older, boutique hotel, like W vibe. Some partying, with some retreat away from it all.

 

And both definitely welcome genX passengers, as the first post says, they spend the most per passenger.  I wonder if the cruiselines are expecting to not be able to sail at capacity for a while, and so they are focusing on revenue/passenger instead of total passengers.

 

edit: Like think about it.  Pretend for a second you are a high 30's to low 50s high income DINK couple, with limited vacation days, that wants to spend one of your weeks of vacation on a cruise.  Lets say you like the modern aesthetic, and like modern cuisine, and expect amenities similar to those "modern luxury" boutique hotels on land.

 

What cruise line fits you best?

Edited November 19, 2020 by UnorigionalName

[terrydtx]

10 minutes ago, scubagal44 said:

 

To that point, while I'm not a "techie kid," I do live in Silicon Valley and there are so many of us with a good amount of disposable income who have no interest in having children.  I'm an older millenial, husband is a younger GenX, and we have plenty of people in our social circle who fit the same description.  People our age aren't chomping at the bit to have kids anymore and, personally, for us that means we vacation 3-4 times per year around the world instead.  I do think Celebrity is smart to try and bring in people who fit my demographic.

We've only cruised once on X and enjoyed it immensely, so they'll make the short-list of options if/when we cruise again.  

I would love a Celebrity cruise ship full of more like you and your husband. Most of our circle of friends are much younger than my wife and I.  I leaned a long time of go being around younger folks keeps us young. A ship full of boomers and Gen X folks means Celebrity is making money and will be even more successful. When my wife and I were your ages with a couple of kids plus 2 weeks of vacation a year and saving for college and other things taking 2 or 3 trips a year was impossible. I look forward to meeting you on a X ship in the future..

[terrydtx]

51 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

X can shift their focus to whomever they wish.

It won't stop us from sailing with them. We'll still have a great time on board.

YMMV. 

I agree 100%

[scubagal44]

14 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

I have said this before, but Virgin Voyages seems like a better fit for your demographic.

 

But, I'm sure Celebrity will welcome bookings from anyone with the money to cruise.

 

I enjoyed my one Disney cruise but I know I am not the target demographic since I have no kids.

 

 

 

Eh, I've done plenty of research on VV and it really does not appeal to me at all.  It feels to me like a more upscale version of Carnival, and I'm not interested in that vibe.  

[hcat]

26 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

 

I really don't care about the age of the passengers either.  However, music is a different thing.  I don't want to cruise on a line focused on rap music or modern R&B autotune music (where the singers sound like robots).  I'm sure its wonderful music, but its not my preference.  

 

 

On our 2 EDGE cruises , the live music was varied and excellent.....no intrusive techno tapes,.  Beautiful Italian taped music in Tuscan.fit the ambiance of the Fellini decor.  Live music at the outdoor pool was also varied..great DJs.no rap!