Just in case anyone had doubts about whom Celebrity are targeting with their "Always Included" &" New Luxury" branding

[terrydtx]

2 hours ago, Jazzbo said:

Wow, those are excellent fares!  I've been looking at Delta R/T to Amsterdam next summer, and Delta One is $4068 or $3864, more than double the cost of Premium Economy at $1722. We could afford that, but I can't justify spending that much more.

We start looking at fares as soon as the 330 days out time is reached. The best fares can be found on Tuesdays and Thursdays but through Celebrity Air you have jump as soon as you see a fare and route you like and want. I looked today and the flights we have in August from San Antonio to Barcelona and home from Lisbon to SAT and the Delta flights we booked in October do not show on Celebrity Air but American had the same route at the same price of $2330 pp that we paid in October. BTW on American the Premium Economy was $1680pp on the same routes. So for about 700pp more on AA you could fly Business Class over PE. That's why we fly Business class on International flights, it is not much more in the scheme of things. Two years ago we flew RT to Rome on American on Premium Economy which at that time cost $2200pp rt so the flights next year are a bargain, for us.

Edited November 19, 2020 by terrydtx

[scubagal44]

4 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I would love a Celebrity cruise ship full of more like you and your husband. Most of our circle of friends are much younger than my wife and I.  I leaned a long time of go being around younger folks keeps us young. A ship full of boomers and Gen X folks means Celebrity is making money and will be even more successful. When my wife and I were your ages with a couple of kids plus 2 weeks of vacation a year and saving for college and other things taking 2 or 3 trips a year was impossible. I look forward to meeting you on a X ship in the future..

 

Likewise, we love meeting and getting to know people of all ages!  Cruising is a very different style of vacation than we usually go for, but different is good and I think we'll probably add it into the rotation more often when everything settles down.  I hope our paths cross in the future, we would love to hang out with you and your wife!

[cruisemom42]

47 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

 

I really don't care about the age of the passengers either.  However, music is a different thing.  I don't want to cruise on a line focused on rap music or modern R&B autotune music (where the singers sound like robots).  I'm sure its wonderful music, but its not my preference.  

 

 

Everything changes in its season and every group has their moment in the sun. Just imagine how us young'uns have felt all these years listening to "Sweet Caroline" and "Hey Jude" over and over at various piano bars....

[DUTRAVEL]

1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

X can shift their focus to whomever they wish.

It won't stop us from sailing with them. We'll still have a great time on board.

YMMV. 

Totally agree!! They can market to whomever, its not going to bother us.

[UnorigionalName]

18 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Everything changes in its season and every group has their moment in the sun. Just imagine how us young'uns have felt all these years listening to "Sweet Caroline" and "Hey Jude" over and over at various piano bars....

 

I think the worse thing is that green day is now played on classic rock stations...

 

To Gen Z this thread is mostly like old people yelling at other old people.

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

I think we are all part of the current plan if they want to make money and survive.  That being said, this thread is more about our feelings I think.  Some are realizing a harsh reality. Current experienced (ahem...older) cruisers (like me and dw) that have sailed them quite a lot perhaps feel some sense of one way loyalty (us to them - but not vice versa).  But with all of our loyalty benefits we cost more to them on every cruise.  Yes we have spent a boatload with them in the past but that ended with last year's P&L financial statement.  That is the business reality.  They care about future earnings not past earnings.  They care about attracting future passengers particularly a new generation of cruisers who will be enthusiastic and spend all the money that we did (or are still doing).  Did anybody think they designed these fancy new ships like Edge and Apex just for us?  How many of us current cruisers here have talked about S-Class being preferred instead? Eventually we will not be sailing as often, then not at all someday.  Who will replace us?  These marketing campaigns are always to attract the next generation.  They already have us.  Maybe some of us will go away feeling unappreciated.  But they know we will all not go away.  But they absolutely need the next generation to build and expand future revenue.  So it is a balance.

Agreed!

Except for one thing, Rick.

I do think X designed these fancy new Edge class ships just for us. Because we’re worth it! 😁

[basenji56]

58 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Everything changes in its season and every group has their moment in the sun. Just imagine how us young'uns have felt all these years listening to "Sweet Caroline" and "Hey Jude" over and over at various piano bars....

The time that they start playing Cardi B's latest big hit, is the last time I cruise with Celebrity....;-)

[basenji56]

2 hours ago, scubagal44 said:

 

Eh, I've done plenty of research on VV and it really does not appeal to me at all.  It feels to me like a more upscale version of Carnival, and I'm not interested in that vibe.  

That was my feeling too.  Tattoo parlor at sea?  No thank you.

 

It struck me as Carnival for trust fund kids.

 

But, the ships are beautiful and very stylish.  And the restaurants looked very nice.  And I'm sure the entertainment will be outstanding--although much more modern music related.

 

[vswan]

IMO a younger crowd probably would spend more dollars on extras and that is what Celebrity needs right now to stay in business. Although we could afford to spend for the pay restaurants or upgrading drinks, we generally don't. If I look at the spending habits in my family, my 40ish kids seem to think things are important that I wouldn't spend money on. 

[davekathy]

If you don't spend your money now, you kids will later. 

[grandgeezer]

2 hours ago, davekathy said:

If you don't spend your money now, you kids will later. 

We aren’t going to spend our money, just to spend it. We basically have everything we want and go anyplace we want, so what’s left? If we made a list of the top 20 things we would worry about, money would not be on the list.

Nothing could makes us happier than knowing we were able to help ensure our kids and grand children should be able to live a lifestyle we think they deserve.

[basenji56]

Simple is the new luxury.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Celebrity-new-all-inclusive-base-fare-blurs-the-line-between-premium-and-luxe?fbclid=IwAR2QOdLZ3MIeTFq4iAmbhOCmsiaZuuJexkHQpc4Hs1quHOLQa6-rZMCCTjY

 

" Simplicity is the new luxury, and we wanted to make sure we were a simple brand to book."

 

Yes, it is "simpler" to force me to pay for a drinks package when I don't drink, and to pay for a wifi package when I want to disconnect from the internet--but it is not luxurious, its just stupid.

 

[phoenix_dream]

On 11/14/2020 at 7:04 PM, WonderMan3 said:

This makes sense. Gen X (which I am part of) are people from around age 40-57. Baby boomers older than that likely have already zeroed in on a preferred cruise line and those who are retired may be on a fixed budget and therefore not as likely to spend as much as Gen Xers who are still working with lots of disposable income.

Disagree 100% (I would say 1000% but I'm trying to keep my emotions out of it🙂)  Yes, us older folks do often zero in on a preferred cruise line- I'm with you on that.  But as to the rest?  Not in my opinion.  Those of us who cruise regularly on Celebrity (and there are tons of us) may have a fixed budget per se, but that budget is not necessarily small.  Since retiring, we average 6-8 cruises per year (pre-Covid of course).  We don't book inside cabins - at our age we want to enjoy a bit of luxury.  We can't always afford suites, but the minimum we will do is AQ or CC. Based on the demographic I usually see on Celebrity I don't think we are in the minority.

 

And most of the Gen Xers I know (and I know many as I have three sons that age and know many of their friends)  have much less disposable income than I do as they are paying mortgages and getting ready to send their kids to college - for us, done and done.  They also don't tend to choose cruising as their first choice as vacation, and if they do they want a line where they can take their pre-teen and teen kids - and those kids are generally not all that enamored on a ship with no entertainment like wave riders, rock climbing walls, ice skating, etc..

 

I will agree with one other thing you said - as I cruise a lot I tend not to spend as much onboard as I did when I first started.  But I just don't think Celebrity is going to fill their ships with this marketing plan.  I guess we will have to wait and see.

Edited November 20, 2020 by phoenix_dream

[basenji56]

http://www.thecelebritycommitment.com/New_Luxury.html

 

[C-Dragons]

18 hours ago, Orator said:

Hope you are both doing well. I know you love cruising and come across a "go with the flow" people. I admire that and wish I could be more like you. I once never thought that there would be anything that would pull me away from Celebrity. Most certainly the demographics don't matter to me.  I do many projects in retirement that involve young people of various ages. I have many close relationships with people in their 30's. I love to talk to younger people so I can "stay in tune". But, my perceived view that Celebrity no longer feels that I am no longer a part of their plan really bothers me. Perhaps it shouldn't but it does. Every call I get from Celebrity starts with the phrase that: "We appreciate your loyalty." I know we are in tough times and businesses are in a fight for survival. I can wait for the time we control Covid and see if things change. Don't tell me that you appreciate my loyalty, show it.

Thanks, Charles, we are both healthy and doing fine. We hope it is the same with you.

Yes, overall, I do have a tendency to have a positive outlook. Still, I can empathize with your situation. However, you have been very fortunate to have enjoyed the benefits afforded you by reaching Zenith years ago. How do you think all of us who were on track to achieve the same level and benefits with our next few cruises feel?

It won’t cause us to go elsewhere. We've been there, done that and came to realize that X is the best fit for us. Besides, does anyone really believe that other cruise lines will not change or modify their loyalty programs, or eliminate other things as well, considering that the whole industry is in

“survival” mode? It's to be expected.

I'm trying to be patient. I would rather X succeed and be able to sail with a few less niceties, than see X fail. 

[Orator]

I too want Celebrity to become the successful company I know they can become. I'm really concerned with the crew who I've come to think of as family .I'm in contact with many of them and I know that they miss seeing some of the passengers. I also know that people in the Miami office read these pages and have time to time reversed a decision based on comments. I have indeed been very fortunate to enjoy the Zenith benefits, but really feel for those who have spent money to achieve the Zenith level and have just turned Zenith or are close to Zenith. As I've said previously the Zenith program may be thought of as promotion and ,a very successful promotion at that. It caused many people to cruise more often in higher priced cabins to make Zenith more quickly. Once they reached Zenith they tended to become more addicted to Celebrity and cruise more often. I believe Celebrity is wrong to look at Zeniths  a cost, they actually represent significant income. We did between 10-15 cruises a year, mainly in Aqua Class. My DW spent lots of $$$ in the shops buying high end items and that must be calculated as part of potential income lost. I just think that Celebrity has taken their eye off the ball and unless they reevaluate their decision making, they are more likely to fail than succeed. I'm at an age where I can't sail much longer, so it's really not about me. I have gone to Crystal over the last year and really enjoy it. Celebrity, other than Flora can never become Crystal and they should not want to be. They are fine as the former Celebrity. I still plan to take some Celebrity cruises when people I want to see , both crew and passengers are onboard, but not as frequently as before. Might take them once or twice a year for longer cruises.

[WonderMan3]

5 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

Disagree 100% (I would say 1000% but I'm trying to keep my emotions out of it🙂)  Yes, us older folks do often zero in on a preferred cruise line- I'm with you on that.  But as to the rest?  Not in my opinion.  Those of us who cruise regularly on Celebrity (and there are tons of us) may have a fixed budget per se, but that budget is not necessarily small.  Since retiring, we average 6-8 cruises per year (pre-Covid of course).  We don't book inside cabins - at our age we want to enjoy a bit of luxury.  We can't always afford suites, but the minimum we will do is AQ or CC. Based on the demographic I usually see on Celebrity I don't think we are in the minority.

 

And most of the Gen Xers I know (and I know many as I have three sons that age and know many of their friends)  have much less disposable income than I do as they are paying mortgages and getting ready to send their kids to college - for us, done and done.  They also don't tend to choose cruising as their first choice as vacation, and if they do they want a line where they can take their pre-teen and teen kids - and those kids are generally not all that enamored on a ship with no entertainment like wave riders, rock climbing walls, ice skating, etc..

 

I will agree with one other thing you said - as I cruise a lot I tend not to spend as much onboard as I did when I first started.  But I just don't think Celebrity is going to fill their ships with this marketing plan.  I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

Once again (not sure why I have to keep repeating this)... Note the words "MAY BE" that were used in the statement  I wrote, "those who are retired may be on a fixed budget and therefore not as likely to spend as much". "MAY BE" does not equal "ARE". If you are not on a fixed budget, fantastic! Go on 50 cruises a year, buy a new car, take your grandkids on a trip to Disney World every other month..whatever. You are you. You are not every retired person. The majority of retired people in my orbit are on a fixed budget and could not afford a Celebrity cruise, or maybe at most one every few years or so. I also know a few retired people who are quite well off and can spend however they please. And that is why I set my statement as a possible not a definitive.

 

Again, as I stated in another post, none of this marketing applies to those of us who are regular cruisers, so not sure why people are getting so upset about Celebrity doing marketing that they will never see? Moving on...

[wrk2cruise]

11 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

so not sure why people are getting so upset about Celebrity doing marketing that they will never see?

 

It's not the marketing aspect that bothers me.  I think marketing to all potential cruisers is smart.  My concern is they appear to only be able to focus on a single demographic like they tried to do with Millennials a few years ago.  Their message whether intentional or not with the timing of the All Inclusive (stated focus as what GenX wants) and the devaluing of the Captains Club loyalty program by forcing people to pay for things they could do without given their perks.

 

I think many of us enjoy Celebrity for the mix of passengers they have historically attracted.   I personally would welcome more younger people onboard.

[basenji56]

15 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

It's not the marketing aspect that bothers me.  I think marketing to all potential cruisers is smart.  My concern is they appear to only be able to focus on a single demographic like they tried to do with Millennials a few years ago.  Their message whether intentional or not with the timing of the All Inclusive (stated focus as what GenX wants) and the devaluing of the Captains Club loyalty program by forcing people to pay for things they could do without given their perks.

 

I think many of us enjoy Celebrity for the mix of passengers they have historically attracted.   I personally would welcome more younger people onboard.

Exactly.  

[WonderMan3]

1 hour ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

It's not the marketing aspect that bothers me.  I think marketing to all potential cruisers is smart.  My concern is they appear to only be able to focus on a single demographic like they tried to do with Millennials a few years ago.  Their message whether intentional or not with the timing of the All Inclusive (stated focus as what GenX wants) and the devaluing of the Captains Club loyalty program by forcing people to pay for things they could do without given their perks.

 

I think many of us enjoy Celebrity for the mix of passengers they have historically attracted.   I personally would welcome more younger people onboard.

 

These things are not all necessarily related though so it is misplaced frustration. The changes to Captain's Club are a cost cutting measure which appear to be motivated by Covid which has decimated Celebrity financially. (Although I suspect they have been looking for an opportunity to cut back on those benefits even before Covid.) Gen X travelers like myself (I'm Elite Plus and rising) would be impacted by those changes too.

 

 

[docruth]

24 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

 

These things are not all necessarily related though so it is misplaced frustration. The changes to Captain's Club are a cost cutting measure which appear to be motivated by Covid which has decimated Celebrity financially. (Although I suspect they have been looking for an opportunity to cut back on those benefits even before Covid.) Gen X travelers like myself (I'm Elite Plus and rising) would be impacted by those changes too.

 

 

 

Wonderman,

 

You and I are in violent agreement!

 

What RCL and X need to understand is that customers will do as they please. Every one of the big dining, airline and hotel programs has firsthand experiences, that seemingly insignificant changes to their loyalty programs can have consequences waaaaay out of line with the perceived economic value of the intended change.

 

Doc Ruth

Edited November 21, 2020 by docruth

[basenji56]

6 minutes ago, docruth said:

 

Wonderman,

 

You and I are in violent agreement!

 

What RCL and X need to understand is that customers will do as they please. Every one of the big dining, airline and hotel programs has firsthand experiences, that seemingly insignificant changes to their loyalty programs can have consequences waaaaay out of line with the perceived economic value of the intended change.

 

Doc Ruth

 

 I am copying this from another thread because I think it does a good job of describing the assets of any cruise line:

 

"X Cruise Line, really any cruise line, has essentially three assets.

 

1. Customers- A customer base call it goodwill represented in part by the deposits it holds on repeat customers.  A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.

 

2. Personnel - In particular hotel directors, restaurant director, cruise directors and others who supervise the personnel that come in contact with the customers because they are the primary conveyors and enforcers of the quality control of the ship.  That is they know what makes the Customer happy and how to make the customer happy.   The Ship's Captain and engineers and other who have a strong technical competence would be much easier to replace.  These technical  positions would be to a great extent interchangeable with almost all the Cruise lines.  But the Customer contact staff would understand what makes their cruise line unique, gives it an identification and keeps the customer coming back.  

 

While a slow transition of such staff is to be expected in any organization a sudden loss of that history would spell disaster for the cruise line.

 

3. Hard Assets - The least valuable asset of the cruiseline are its ships.  Most likely the ships leased to X are all encumbered by financial instruments.  It is also most likely that the creditors who hold these encumbrances realize that in the current market that the ships are worth less than the liens.

 

A potential acquirer of X Cruises,  would look first  to see how secure the customer base is and have a plan for maintaining the customer base.  Second  the acquirer would be looking at the ability to retain the key customer relations personnel.    The acquirer could always find another ship to lease particularly in this buyers market that could be modified to meet the criteria of the cruiseline.

 

But because the end of the Covid 19 crisis is not yet determinable the value of the Customer base and personnel are also not determinable.  The longer this shutdown goes on the more likely the Customer base shrinks and even more likely the key personnel will find different positions with other companies and not be available for any restart.  

 

The default to the creditors on the hard assets of the Company will not be determine whether X survives but rather the erosion of the intangible assets, customer base and key personnel, will spell the difference on whether the Company survives under new ownership or old."

[docruth]

12 minutes ago, basenji56 said:

The default to the creditors on the hard assets of the Company will not be determine whether X survives but rather the erosion of the intangible assets, customer base and key personnel, will spell the difference on whether the Company survives under new ownership or old."

 

Really, really good post!

 

So ... as a primary asset of the corporation, this is what I have to say, treat me right, or I’m no longer a customer, or otherwise don’t consider me an asset, you choose.

 

Doc Ruth

Edited November 21, 2020 by docruth

[davekathy]

20 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

We aren’t going to spend our money, just to spend it. We basically have everything we want and go anyplace we want, so what’s left? If we made a list of the top 20 things we would worry about, money would not be on the list.

Nothing could makes us happier than knowing we were able to help ensure our kids and grand children should be able to live a lifestyle we think they deserve.

Bingo. Glad you were able to read between the lines. Us first. Those of us that have worked for years, saved, invested and lived within our means now don't have to worry about our financial future. We still don't let our wants exceed our needs but we don't scrimp either. There still can be that rainy day. We are RDINKs. 

[AidenL]

On 11/14/2020 at 9:38 PM, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

The below slide was on a travel agent webinar and describes who they will be "obsessively"  focusing on and marketing to with their new "Always Included" pricing structure and "New Luxury" branding.  It's Gen-X and they are not ashamed to admit that Baby Boomers are no longer the core demographic they want to attract or retain!  It's all about the $$$$, and they see Gen-X as more profitable per guest/day than any other cohort.

 

 

That’s me and wifey I guess. It’s actually an accurate summary of us spookily enough.

Edited November 21, 2020 by AidenL