Just in case anyone had doubts about whom Celebrity are targeting with their "Always Included" &" New Luxury" branding

[Orator]

5 minutes ago, SolocruiserMA said:

I'm a Gen X'er who is Platinum Plus with NCL. Realizing about a year ago I was growing tired of NCL, I decided that I'm finally in a financial position to look at a more premium cruise line. So, I booked a Celebrity Edge voyage, a voyage on the Scarlet Lady, and MSC Yacht Club to try to find my new preferred line. 

 

I suspect lots of my generation are in a similar position, having student loans gone, a house with equity, and a career with 10 years of seniority. It's only natural to start to explore. 

 

Celebrity would be negligent not to try to capitalize on that reality. 

How many vacation weeks do you have? Do you believe that your generation will develop loyalty to any one line? I love to see a mixture of demographics on a ship as it makes it more likely I can learn from others.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

Wait. Are GenXers going to be buying my drinks now? 

[Quo Vadis?]

It does not matter who Celebrity targets.  Covid will decide who gets to travel for the next year at least.  We're happy to stay home, away from all threats to our health that is a part of shipboard life.

There is no place where one can isolate with safety if ship happens.

 

And once Celebrity gets around to tell us that we have lost the perks we have earned on over 200 cruises over two decades, Celebrity will not be our first choice.

 

To misquote someone who may still be alive... "‘Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor hell a fury like a cruiser scorned.”

 

[Baron Barracuda]

Working folks receive a limited number of vacation days each year so  If X is serious about focusing on younger cruisers they will likely have to shorten most sailings to 7 nights or less.   That would be a shame as we have always enjoyed longer itineraries.  Really miss the 14 night Southern Caribbean sailings they used to offer on Eclipse.

[Oceangoer2]

19 minutes ago, Argo. said:

‘Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor hell a fury like a cruiser scorned.”

Not likely to be alive, but maybe in an alternate universe...LOL......Author and quote with a minute change from 'woman' to 'cruiser'...agree with the 'woman' reference but 'cruiser' is a stretch.......

 

"William Congreve (1670-1729) wrote some of the most popular English plays of the Restoration period (the period from 1660 when the monarchy was re-established in Britain after a 10 year period as a Republic) but is perhaps best remembered for his 1697 tragedy, The Mourning Bride, the source of his two most famous, albeit misquoted, quotes.

"Music has charms to soothe a savage breast" (often misquoted as "beast"), and
"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned," (usually misquoted as "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned")

[Roz]

The Boomers (1946 - 1964) are in the 56 - 74 age group.  Many are still working.  A lot of them have paid for homes and the kids are out of the house and out of college.  Lots of disposable income there.  

 

Unless someone is retiring on SS alone, they're not on a fixed income.  When I retire in 2 years, I'll probably still take at least 2 cruises per year.  The difference is they will be longer cruises because right now my constraint is time (work), not money. 

 

The Boomers still have a lot of cruising left in them, but of course any business has to look towards cultivating the next generation(s) while retaining current customers.

[docruth]

Roz,

 

My DH and I are just a little further along in life than you guys, and now on the other side of retirement. We’ve had fifteen great years of intense cruising. So great that we started talking  to some folks living almost full-time on ships, & small apartments in FLL or MIA. Many centenarians. 

 

After doing the math, we were seriously considering how that might work out ... right up to Covid.

 

Alas, that pipe dream is now gone, and I don’t think it’s coming back. To your point though, with an elite status, special discounts (senior, resident, military, 1st responder) and careful planning, it was cheaper than assisted living. Now, as the lines move to all-inclusive, the value proposition is not the same, and I certainly do  understand their business case.

 

Doc Ruth

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Sorry Pinboy, but there are those who will be offended by some of your comments.  I don't enjoy making fun of anybody for any reason, and can't agree it's humour.

 

His screen name should tell you everything about him, "boy".

[Pinboy]

37 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

His screen name should tell you everything about him, "boy".

In my post I said " For a little humor " --- no intention to offend anyone , nor would I. 

LOL--- What did you say about screen names ???? 

 

 

 

[jg51]

22 hours ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

The caliber of service was greater as was the food quality and music/entertainment diversity.   You used to get in the MDR what they now serve in the paid specialty restaurants.

 

I went to an onboard steak seminar. They admitted the lower cuts of beef now go to the MDR while the far superior cuts go to the specialty restaurants where the guest pays for the regular included meal plus the specialty surcharge.  The better grades used to be served in the MDR.  A few years ago the buffets changed from carving stations to a lot lower grade of meats served in dutch ovens and swimming in "gravy." 

 

There were cabin attendants and their assistants handling about 12 cabins.  A few years ago, Celebrity did away with the assistants and made everyone cabin attendants.  They were given more cabins (I believe 24) to do by themselves.  Thus the level of service diminished from what it used to be.

 

There used to be a lot of live music in various venues all over the ship.  The shows were outside troupes who did varying entertainment.  Then they reduced the number of musicians that played and tried to fill the S class ship atrium's with blaring DJ music for the youngsters (aka Millennial's). Celebrity fired the outside troupes and brought the shows in house.  That's when I feel many of the shows became lame trying to be edgy.

 

The changes were made incrementally so as most cruisers really didn't notice. My first cruise was in 1984. I've sailed several lines before coming to Celebrity.  Some included NCL, Carnival and Admiral.   I sailed Celebrity Mercury twice before she was sold in 2011.  I've sailed the M and S classes.  I've also sailed Oceania and Azamara.

 

The Celebrity changes can be compared to boiling a frog.  You put him in cold water and gradually increase the heat.  He doesn't realize he going to be boiled until it's too late.

 

I understand they need to cut costs but they're also raising rates at the same time. Every frog cruiser eventually reaches their boiling point.  Some sooner than others.  The elite, elite plus and zenith "loyalty" members seeing the perks evaporate with the new AI are just another straw on the camel's back.  The younger cruisers won't see what the experienced cruisers see.  Thus they won't reach their last straw until many years down the road. That's what Celebrity is counting on.

.

Thank you, "ChucktownSteve," for an accurate description of the way things used to be (coming from us, whose first "X" cruise was in 2008).

 

Our stateroom had an attendant and an assistant in 2008 -- something never to be seen again.

 

You are absolutely right about the gradual -- your word: "incremental" -- "dumbing down" of the MDR menus (not only with the best cuts disappearing, but also with the number of entree choices diminishing, and even with certain kinds of meat and seafood "going bye-bye" forever).

 

You are absolutely right about the smaller number of live-music performances and the lessening of the number of musicians playing in those performances.  Examples: 

(1) We had to say, "adios para siempre," to solo pianists, who could play any genre of music, even heavy or light classics ...

(2) After enjoying genuine string quartets, playing acoustic instruments, in 2008 to at least 2010, we began to see trios -- and, by 2017 or 2018, it was string duos, sometimes playing bizarre, artificial/electronic instruments (cellos and basses).

(3) Now there are DJs galore and multi-channeled headphones around the Martini Bar.

 

Several years ago, we asked ourselves, "Why in the world are these things happening?"  The answer became quickly clear:  Celebrity wanted to maintain its fares below a certain maximum, because they feared rebellion and abandonment by their clientele, if they were to raise the cruise fares just high enough to pay for the customarily very good MDR and buffet food and the top-notch entertainers.  They insulted us by choosing to keep the old, obsolete fare structure -- and, to accomplish this, they "dumped" many of the "touches of class" that used to make them so much better than they are now. 

 

'Tis a pity.  We think that Celebrity should "incrementally" get back (at least) to where they used to be before 2010.  This "always-included" new wave is going to result in much higher cruise fares.  If they have the courage to demand a lot more money for the newly-included features, they should (soon afterward) have the courage to demand just a little bit more money, so that they could return the pre-2010 classiness.

.

Edited November 16, 2020 by jg51

[Pinboy]

2 hours ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Sorry Pinboy, but there are those who will be offended by some of your comments.  I don't enjoy making fun of anybody for any reason, and can't agree it's humour.

I guess we have a different sense of humor ?  

Perhaps you noticed my comments were not directed at anyone in particular and I would never make fun of anyone.

A Leafs fan by any chance ?

[UnorigionalName]

2 hours ago, Oceangoer2 said:

I'm having a little problem wondering....why all the angst?  Cruise X or not....pay required $$s or not.....go to the show(s) or not.....book inside/suites or not.  We're not being forced to sail with them.  I enjoy cruising with X, in a suitable cabin, using their excursions which are fine with me and the protection they provide, dining in MDR at times and specialty restaurants at times, and the entertainment they provide that definitely is not in my normal experience.  This change includes perks (grats, bev. pkg.) we usually add to our cruise cost anyway.  Some of us *if not most* have adjusted well to many changes over our lifetime, not just cruising changes.  I agree with some that there were little X courtesies we enjoyed and have 'disappeared' but that was more than 10 years ago.  Let's wait and see how the loyalty perks/points work out before complaining we're being 'frozen out'. JMHO.

 

Because the "Me generation" froths at the mouths when everything doesn't revolve around them.

[ChucktownSteve]

3 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

Because the "Me generation" froths at the mouths when everything doesn't revolve around them.

 Maybe I'm getting old and senile.  Remind me who the "Me generation" is please.

[UnorigionalName]

19 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 Maybe I'm getting old and senile.  Remind me who the "Me generation" is please.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by UnorigionalName
Copyright?

[sippican]

1 hour ago, grandgeezer said:

 

His screen name should tell you everything about him, "boy".

 

A tit for a tat, seriously "geezer"? 

Edited November 16, 2020 by sippican

[ChucktownSteve]

40 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation

 

The "Me" generation is a term referring to Baby Boomers in the United States and the self-involved qualities that some people associate with it.^[1] The 1970s were dubbed the "Me decade" by writer Tom Wolfe;^[2] Christopher Lasch was another writer who commented on the rise of a culture of narcissism among the younger generation of that era.^[3] The phrase caught on with the general public, at a time when "self-realization" and "self-fulfillment" were becoming cultural aspirations to which young people supposedly ascribed higher importance than social responsibility.

 

I've never believed wikipedia. It can be written by anyone and never verified.  Sometimes it's written by people with an agenda.

 

Here's another sources that say the "me generation" are not just the Boomers, who I believe are the achievers following the Greatest Generation.

https://time.com/247/millennials-the-me-me-me-generation/

 

The culture in America is "ME".  It cuts across generations.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by ChucktownSteve

[wrk2cruise]

I don't think anyone thinks it's not smart for Celebrity to try to expand it's customer base by including GenX.   But why alienate their loyal customer base?

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, sippican said:

 

A tit for a tat, seriously "geezer"? 

Serious as death and taxes.

[markeb]

I'm not really surprised X would target Gen X, other than demographically they almost need to be targeting Millennials! Millennials are actually the largest age-based demographic in the US now. Gen X will overtake Boomers in 6-8 years, and the Boomer population (I am one, although late Boomer) is already declining and is projected to continue that decline at a pretty crazy slope that looks to be around -0.9 (millions/year) with what looks like a fairly steep negative rate of change in the slope. Pew did a fairly interesting demographic look about a year ago, just purely based on population numbers without getting into any of the "who are they" and values discussions, but on sheer numbers, Gen X + Millennials is already close to twice the Boomer population, which actually surprised me. In 15 years or less, you'll be looking at around 45M Boomers, down from 72M, and Gen X and Millennials will both still be over 60M, with Millennials over 70M. Pew

 

So I'd actually say this is the perfect time to be targeting higher earning Gen X'ers and possibly even Millennials if you want to preserve your industry into the future. And the higher earners are much more likely to be in professions where they work on commissions or are independent contractors, or the like where that traditional 2 week vacation until you die at your desk may not apply.

 

And everyone eventually alienates their loyal customer base at some point. It's almost impossible, for instance, to get a BMW these days with a manual transmission (near blasphemy). Probably 90% of Porsches are sold with their PDK transmission, and there are two SUV's in the lineup (both are absolute blasphemies!). Scotch whisky went through a 10-15 year period of "no age statement" whisky. The airlines (pre pandemic) all played with their loyalty programs, and Marriott created "Bonvoy". Different, of course, but all are luxury markets, or hit on the luxury component of the market. But pretty much all those changes represent an appeal to a different customer. BMW forums that used to have heated arguments over manual transmissions and MacPherson struts now have arguments over Apple CarPlay. And they continue to sell and lease cars...

[C-Dragons]

 

55 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

I don't think anyone thinks it's not smart for Celebrity to try to expand it's customer base by including GenX.   But why alienate their loyal customer base?

 

Of course they need to expand their customer base, but I don’t think they are trying to alienate anyone.

X says their current “focus” is on Gen-X, but the reality is they need all demographics.

Money is money, no matter who pays the bill. 😉

[Baron Barracuda]

3 hours ago, Roz said:

The Boomers (1946 - 1964) are in the 56 - 74 age group. 

This means boomers have a good 10 - 30 years of cruising left in them.   Many are newly retired with kids out of college, mortgages mostly paid off and lots of free time.  Should be a prime target market for cruise lines.

[Algebralovr]

Interesting reading.

I'm a Gen X-er.  I have 26 vacation days a year, and usually spend 15 of them on a ship.  We have two millennials who are grown and flown and have careers.  They are QUITE happy to sail X with us, particularly if I'm paying 😀  I admit I bribe my kids and their SOs every other year to spend a week with us.  It is a blast. 

The "kids" enjoy Celebrity enough that they have booked and paid for their own cruises as well.  

 

I'm pretty sure I'm who they are targeting.  Lots of my friends have starting coming along on cruises with us.

[Baron Barracuda]

2 hours ago, jg51 said:

.

Several years ago, we asked ourselves, "Why in the world are these things happening?"  The answer became quickly clear:  Celebrity wanted to maintain its fares below a certain maximum, because they feared rebellion and abandonment by their clientele, if they were to raise the cruise fares just high enough to pay for the customarily very good MDR and buffet food and the top-notch entertainers.  They insulted us by choosing to keep the old, obsolete fare structure -- and, to accomplish this, they "dumped" many of the "touches of class" that used to make them so much better than they are now. 

 

Might be coincidence but in 2014 RCL rolled out it's double-double program which set goals of doubling earnings in just 3 years and achieving double digit return on capital.  They hit those targets and paid out $80 million in bonuses.  Growing earnings at the Royal division was aided by the addition of four mega-ships but X received no new ships.  Therefore the only way X could improve performance was through fare increases and expense cuts.  That's when LLP took a machete to the business.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Baron Barracuda

[markeb]

12 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

This means boomers have a good 10 - 30 years of cruising left in them.   Many are newly retired with kids out of college, mortgages mostly paid off and lots of free time.  Should be a prime target market for cruise lines.

 

Individual members, yes. As a population, in 20 years, there will be around 30 M boomers and over 130M Gen X = Millennials. We are leaving the population (i.e., dying) about as fast as we entered it...

 

And I've lost track of "what's next". Haven't looked up Gen Z or now I guess Gen Alpha.

[TeeRick]

5 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Individual members, yes. As a population, in 20 years, there will be around 30 M boomers and over 130M Gen X = Millennials. We are leaving the population (i.e., dying) about as fast as we entered it...

 

And I've lost track of "what's next". Haven't looked up Gen Z or now I guess Gen Alpha.

Reminds me of the old joke about the Biotech company from Rome named Gen-Italia.🙂