New vaccine

[ann141]

3 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

Scientific rationale determines that if the first AZ dose didn't illicit a response which could cause the immune system to attack itself then the second dose won't, in effect it is a booster. Typically these things would have come out in the assessment stage of clinical trials but for obvious reasons that was not feasible. It is understandable that people will have concerns and it is logical to not use AZ vaccine on the younger age groups with the current data.

You mention about the possibility of the AZ (or any other vaccine) having the potential for the immune system to attack itself?Would this possibly show up in blood tests? I have had some abnormal blood test results and already suffer from an autoimmune disease.Wonder if this might be related.My second jab is due in just over a week

[fragilek]

Just now, ann141 said:

You mention about the possibility of the AZ (or any other vaccine) having the potential for the immune system to attack itself?Would this possibly show up in blood tests? I have had some abnormal blood test results and already suffer from an autoimmune disease.Wonder if this might be related.My second jab is due in just over a week

here is the info for how this can be detected

guidance-version-07-on-mngmt-of-thrombosis-with-thrombocytopenia-occurring-after-c-19-vaccine_20210330_.pdf (b-s-h.org.uk)

[zap99]

5 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

We shall be both attending for our second AZ jab.  

I vaguely remember reading some time back that if Aspirin was put through today's tests, it would fail.  Anyone who disagrees please feel free to put me right if I am wrong.

 

If I were too scared to have the AZ jab, I wouldn't be able to leave home - I might be swallowed up by a sink-hole.

Unfortunately some folk are determined to find some pet jouro to support their beliefs. In that vein a report from the American Association of Physicians reports 37 reported cases in non AZ Covid vaccines. The UK and EU regulatory use phrases like ' possible link '. All manner of drugs, medical procedures, travel, alcohol etc have far greater risks associated with blood platelet side effects but don't scare folk as much.

[ann141]

1 minute ago, fragilek said:

here is the info for how this can be detected

guidance-version-07-on-mngmt-of-thrombosis-with-thrombocytopenia-occurring-after-c-19-vaccine_20210330_.pdf (b-s-h.org.uk)

Thanks for link.I'm sure I haven't had the thrombosis.I just wondered if the vaccine might affect a blood test result a couple of months later

[fragilek]

2 minutes ago, ann141 said:

Thanks for link.I'm sure I haven't had the thrombosis.I just wondered if the vaccine might affect a blood test result a couple of months later

autoimmune conditions themselves can also impact blood results including CFR, LFTs white cell count (esp lymphocytes), vit D and folic acid levels and in extreme cases depending on previous treatments  ferritin too.  Any infection, vaccine or even medications  can also impact some blood results.

[yorkshirephil]

11 minutes ago, ann141 said:

You mention about the possibility of the AZ (or any other vaccine) having the potential for the immune system to attack itself?Would this possibly show up in blood tests? I have had some abnormal blood test results and already suffer from an autoimmune disease.Wonder if this might be related.My second jab is due in just over a week

It could depending on the effects of the vaccine, current data suggests that the immune system is affecting the platelets that can cause clotting, other drugs have a similar effect which is why some people have to have regular blood tests when they are taking such medication. I would suggest you contact your doctor with your concerns, as lots of people have abnormal results for many reasons.

[yorkshirephil]

6 minutes ago, fragilek said:

autoimmune conditions themselves can also impact blood results including CFR, LFTs white cell count (esp lymphocytes), vit D and folic acid levels and in extreme cases depending on previous treatments  ferritin too.  Any infection, vaccine or even medications  can also impact some blood results.

Obviously you have experience in these matters and your information is good. I have high ferritin which was picked up in a blood test for something else, the specialist was certain I had Haemochromatosis as typically high ferritin is a symptom, after the DNA analysis it was proven I didn't and there is no logical reason I have high ferritin levels. My ferritin is controlled by bi-annual venesections. Ironically the ferritin was never picked up during my cancer follow up blood tests. We are all unique in our own way.

[Harry Peterson]

36 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

Oh Harry, your favourite word is definitely 'but' 😉

Avril

Just like to take an objective view of the evidence,  Avril,  which is sometimes different from tabloid headlines and government spin. And the evidence suggests that Pfizer is producing a rather more effective vaccine than AstraZenica. Both in terms of % efficacy and effectiveness against more variants. 

 

For the record though,  I'll be more than happy to have my second dose and I have no concerns whatsoever about its safety, because of the statistics. 

 

Given the choice, though, I'd sooner have the Pfizer. Not so much for its safety, though - purely for its greater efficacy. No vaccine is ever 100% effective,  but Pfizer is a lot nearer that than AstraZenica. 

[ann141]

37 minutes ago, fragilek said:

autoimmune conditions themselves can also impact blood results including CFR, LFTs white cell count (esp lymphocytes), vit D and folic acid levels and in extreme cases depending on previous treatments  ferritin too.  Any infection, vaccine or even medications  can also impact some blood results.

 

33 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

It could depending on the effects of the vaccine, current data suggests that the immune system is affecting the platelets that can cause clotting, other drugs have a similar effect which is why some people have to have regular blood tests when they are taking such medication. I would suggest you contact your doctor with your concerns, as lots of people have abnormal results for many reasons.

Thank you for your advice.I'm sure there must be medical evidence that booking a cruise relieves anxiety.Did someone say P and O had released new itineraries.....

[yorkshirephil]

2 minutes ago, ann141 said:

 

Thank you for your advice.I'm sure there must be medical evidence that booking a cruise relieves anxiety.Did someone say P and O had released new itineraries.....

You may be right, I will look into writing a thesis, it sure made me feel better when I booked one, not sure how I will feel when I have to pay though.

[ann141]

1 minute ago, yorkshirephil said:

You may be right, I will look into writing a thesis, it sure made me feel better when I booked one, not sure how I will feel when I have to pay though.

If I could have proof in writing I may be able to persuade my husband!!

[terrierjohn]

Just now, yorkshirephil said:

You may be right, I will look into writing a thesis, it sure made me feel better when I booked one, not sure how I will feel when I have to pay though.

Typical of us Yorkshiremen, we need anaesthetic to open our wallets.

[wowzz]

3 hours ago, kalos said:

It's worth noting that anyone who has had the first AZ  vaccine and has not had 

a blood clot issue (which is very rare risk ,if and when proven) No one having the

second jab has suffered from having clots develop. So I will not worry about my

second jab as I hope others will return for the second jab .

Well said. Only 4 weeks to my next vaccination.

I'm more likely to win the euro-millions than die from a blood  clot!

[Harry Peterson]

7 hours ago, wowzz said:

Well said. Only 4 weeks to my next vaccination.

I'm more likely to win the euro-millions than die from a blood  clot!

I fully agree - three weeks to mine.  It's AstraZeneca and it would be idiotic not to have it - I'll be there, on the dot!

 

I don't do the lottery - a one in 45 million chance says it all. You're almost five times more likely, statistically, to be struck by lightning!

[kalos]

We have to keep a sense of proportion and be careful not to do the anti-vaxxers 

job for them . As Wowzz used ,I wonder how many times more chances I have of

winning the Euro lottery. Then I wonder how many lives the AZ vaccine has possibly

saved . When on holiday how many times have you bought a cheap sun cream and 

relied on it not to give you skin cancers? I've yet to see a bottle with "100% guaranteed

protection or your money back slapped over the bottle". Last time I was at Manchester 

airport they had a bundle of 737 Max planes parked up gathering dust ,not to be trusted 

due to fatality's when flying them, lots of lives lost . They are flying again ,Boeing have 

sorted it and passengers now fly on them . It's still a lot safer to have the jab and I am

glad we all seem to agree on that as we look forward to our 2nd jabs .

[Dinglebert]

3 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

I fully agree - three weeks to mine.  It's AstraZeneca and it would be idiotic not to have it - I'll be there, on the dot!

 

I don't do the lottery - a one in 45 million chance says it all. You're almost five times more likely, statistically, to be struck by lightning!

Ah but what are the chances of being struck by lightning after having just purchased that winning lottery ticket.  Then in the panic after the lighting strike your ticket being picked up by the person who vaccinated you the day before.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Dinglebert
upload photo

[Adawn47]

Three weeks and two days for us, not that I'm counting of course. We are extremely lucky  in the UK to have the option to be vaccinated, and should take the opportunity of an appointment and attend for both jabs when contacted, whatever vaccine is offered. Something is better than nothing at all, and the piddling 5-10% difference in efficacy is neither here nor there imo. Many other countries are not even given that option, and spiralling death counts and/or continuous lockdowns are the consequence. I  really do feel for our conitnental neighbours at the moment.

Avril

[teabear]

15 hours ago, wowzz said:

Well said. Only 4 weeks to my next vaccination.

I'm more likely to win the euro-millions than die from a blood  clot!

I agree - note to self - start playing.  I can understand how people are challenged to put this into perspective - think about the millions of under 35's who wouldnt hesitate to jump on a plane - WHO research revealed that the risk of DVT increased significantly when other risk factors were present. Factors that contribute to the increased risk of travel-related DVT include obesity, extremes of height, use of oral contraceptives and pre-existing blood clotting abnormalities. The absolute risk of DVT in healthy passengers per long-haul flight (more than 4 hours) was found to be about 1 in 6000.  Given that the majority of the population has been sitting on their computers hour after hour, day after day, and then taking their daily exercise of going to the fridge, its a miracle that we dont have an epidemic of blood clots

The risk from the AZ vaccine is stated to be 1 in 100,000 - thinking before panicking might be worth consideration

[fragilek]

that's a fair overall pictures but to give you the other side of this. 

 

My 23yr old daughter got the AZ yesterday morning.  She is over 6ft tall due to a genetic condition (I am 5 4") the same condition means she has had to be on the pill since 16 to try and save her ovaries . So she already has 2 raised flags for clots that she can do nothing about.  In addition she got the vaccine as a carer.  She is looking after the grans as I and my husband are in complete shielding due to my treatment for leukemia so haven't been able to look after and help our mums ( in their 70 & 80's )out.  Our eldest daughter is also in shielding as is TD1 with a genetic Kidney issue so couldn't help either.  So the youngest got her vaccine hrs before they were stopped for her age group.  For this age they were described in the slides yesterday - less than zero benefit for her.  So I am nervous even although I am a research scientist (or should say was until ill) pro vax and can easily work out the statistical risk for that age bracket against other events.  But because of my health she has stepped up so that adds to my nervousness. Also I am her mum so it's my job to worry lol

 

Next is stats.  I have had Transverse Myelitis twice, had to learn to walk all over again - twice!  followed a few years later by a very aggressive form of Leukemia (given almost zero chance of survival) there is more chance I could have one the lottery 4 times than those happening - that's stats for you! 

 

Or the way I like to see it, statistically I am a miracle  as there is an almost zero chance I should still be here.... but 3 yrs on here I am lol 

[Josy1953]

I have been acting as a vaccination steward this morning at surgery where they were using the AZ vaccine. All of the people were there for their second jab and while a number asked about whether they were likely to get clots no-one cancelled their appointment and there were no " no shows ".  Towards the end of the morning they were aware that there were more doses than expected so they started to call people on a "reserve" list and everyone called came to be vaccinated.

[zap99]

40 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

I have been acting as a vaccination steward this morning at surgery where they were using the AZ vaccine. All of the people were there for their second jab and while a number asked about whether they were likely to get clots no-one cancelled their appointment and there were no " no shows ".  Towards the end of the morning they were aware that there were more doses than expected so they started to call people on a "reserve" list and everyone called came to be vaccinated.

Most sensible folk will look at the risks and make the decision for themselves. As a 70+ group it is a no brainer. This jab has saved thousands of lives in the UK. If I was 25 I would still have the AZ if that was all that was on offers, but would prefer Pfizer. Unfortunately our friends around the world seem to have no choice, and thousands are dying of Covid every day.

[FamilyCruiserUK]

I understand people getting scared its human nature. I will go as soon as i can for the jab, however after yest news that under 30s will get the offer for any jab does that mean the order of jabs will change and will they jump the queue....so may have to wait a little longer till they get to the 40s so no cruising for us here.....sadly

[yorkshirephil]

15 minutes ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

I understand people getting scared its human nature. I will go as soon as i can for the jab, however after yest news that under 30s will get the offer for any jab does that mean the order of jabs will change and will they jump the queue....so may have to wait a little longer till they get to the 40s so no cruising for us here.....sadly

I believe the under 30's will only be offered an alternative jab to AZ once other higher priority groups have been vaccinated. Moderna jabs have started arriving and J&J are due summer and one would assume the under 30's will get these and/or any available Pfizer dose once others have had their second dose. The government are still claiming every adult will have had at least one dose by end July. 

[Josy1953]

When I went to do my vaccination stewarding shift this morning there was only one other steward there because it was at a doctor's surgery rather than a vaccination hub.  We were introduced to each other.  The other lady had a very unusual Christian name that I have only heard once befor, on a girl I went to school with.  It turned out that it was the same person, it was really strange meeting someone for the first time after 52 years, she left school to be a police cadet and I went on to 6th form and uni.

[davecttr]

I think they will ensure enough of the non AZ vaccine is available to give all those already jabbed their second dose and enough vaccine to give all the under 30's their jabs. Any surplus could then be given to 30's and over. Complex supply calculations will be going on somewhere.