International Travelers May Need to get Virus Vaccinations

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

I posted this over on the Celebrity Board where there are very detailed discussions about vaccinations, etc. so I thought I would also post this on the HAL board - just one person's observation.

 

 

As an example of number of doses in the first round.

 

In AZ, the state will get a total of 58,500 and the state has decided only the two largest counties, Maricopa (Phoenix) and Pima (Tucson) will be allocated these doses. The rest of the state will get the Moderna vaccine later.

 

I live in Tucson so my county will get 11,700 does - divide this by 2 and that means 5850 people can receive the vaccine. First in line are  health care workers  working directly with patients, then home health aides, nursing and medical assistants.  After that residents of skilled nursing and independent and assisted living facilities. 

 

This was reported in the AZ Daily Star on December 10th. Population of Pima County is just over 1 million people.  I doubt these first doses allocated to my county will barely, if at all, cover the health care workers. There was no mention in the article when the second batch would arrive.  At 76 years , I think I will be waiting for several months. This process is going to take some time, IMO.

 

 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, SJSULIBRARIAN said:

I posted this over on the Celebrity Board where there are very detailed discussions about vaccinations, etc. so I thought I would also post this on the HAL board - just one person's observation.

 

 

As an example of number of doses in the first round.

 

In AZ, the state will get a total of 58,500 and the state has decided only the two largest counties, Maricopa (Phoenix) and Pima (Tucson) will be allocated these doses. The rest of the state will get the Moderna vaccine later.

 

I live in Tucson so my county will get 11,700 does - divide this by 2 and that means 5850 people can receive the vaccine. First in line are  health care workers  working directly with patients, then home health aides, nursing and medical assistants.  After that residents of skilled nursing and independent and assisted living facilities. 

 

This was reported in the AZ Daily Star on December 10th. Population of Pima County is just over 1 million people.  I doubt these first doses allocated to my county will barely, if at all, cover the health care workers. There was no mention in the article when the second batch would arrive.  At 76 years , I think I will be waiting for several months. This process is going to take some time, IMO.

 

 

I think the government has been pretty transparent about distribution issues.  We are likely looking at the 2nd quarter of 2021 before most of whom want to be vaccinated will be able to achieve that goal.  But consider that, at most, only about half the US population has indicated they want to be vaccinated with the new products.  So once we get past the initial vaccine rush there will be an even bigger challenge to convince the other half of the population that vaccination is in their own best interests.  Ironically, some of the most vulnerable populations (such as the low income inner city areas) are the ones least likely to allow themselves to be vaccinated.  Polls show an awful lot of vaccine resistance which is nothing new since that has long been a problem in the USA with flu shots.

 

Where does this leave cruise lines?  Hard to be sure of the exact timing but it sound like by the third quarter of 2021 (July) lines would be successful with a mandatory vaccination policy.  It is likely that the CDC will modify its cruise line Guidelines to incorporate a mandatory vaccination policy.  What happens between now and that 3rd quarter is anyone's guess.  While DW and I have never stopped traveling (during COVID) we have been careful to follow most mask and social distancing guidelines.  There is no way we would even consider getting on a ship in the next 6-9 months unless that vessel enforces a mandatory vaccination policy.  This risk of having a single case of COVID on a cruise is just too high.  And with a single case...then what?  How does one get home?  Where does the ship go?  Do passengers get compensated for a ruined cruise (not likely)?

 

When we travel (just returned from a nice trip to Key West and Ft Myers) if we get sick we have to deal with it!  But on a ship if anyone gets sick everyone else also has to deal with it.  A big difference. 

 

Hank

[Sea42]

I'm wondering about the timing of shots because of the uncertainty of how long protection may last. Will there be a requirement to have had the shot within a certain time frame before travel? Many things still to be determined I suppose.

[Mary229]

@Hlitner Actually I think a mandatory vaccination policy for cruise lines would enhance the confidence of the cruising public, it sure would enhance mine and I am usually fairly bold

[iancal]

Enhancement?  NO.  It will be a commercial necessity for these firms.

 

I believe that it will be a requirement for boarding a cruise ship, an international flight, or for entry to a number of foreign countries.

 

What would you do if this was your business?

Edited December 13, 2020 by iancal

[bcummin]

Good morning to our good Canadian neighbors and to my celebrating countrymen.  We all look forward to the vaccines.  Here in Washington State, each county will receive one unit of 975 doses (maybe more?).  It is a start, and we have so much more to look forward to.

Barbara  

[Himself]

On 11/24/2020 at 10:53 AM, Taters said:

From ABC News: https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/international-flyers-virus-vaccinations-74373957?cid=clicksource_4380645_7_heads_posts_headlines_hed 

 

I imagine that the cruise lines may follow suit and am personally looking forward to getting a COVID vaccine as soon as they are available.

I hope not.

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, Sea42 said:

I'm wondering about the timing of shots because of the uncertainty of how long protection may last. Will there be a requirement to have had the shot within a certain time frame before travel? Many things still to be determined I suppose.

That is a question yet to be answered but it does appear that both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines will give at least a year of protection.  As to time frames before travel I recently heard that the Pfizer vaccine does afford some protection in about 10 days - 2 weeks after the first shot, but to get its full benefits you need that second shot (about 3 weeks after the first shot) and maximum immunity is not achieved until about 4 weeks after that first shot.  I guess we will learn more (this week) about the Moderna vaccine but preliminary reports seem to have it comparable to the Pfizer vaccine.  

 

I was listening to an Infectious Disease doc who admits there is much to be learned with time.  But she also made a point that vaccinating a lot of folks quickly will rapidly decrease the death and hospitalization rates.  We will all have to wait and see how often we need to get booster shots.

 

Hank

[paganwoman]

Everyone is forgetting there are some of us who (for what ever reason medically) can not take this vaccine (or any vaccine) and so I am feeling that the airlines, cruise lines and so on will institute a policy of mandatory vaccinations (if medically able) and a medical excuse alone with a  negative test for those of us who can not take it. I am all for vaccines and if I could take them along with everyone believe me I would. I even reacted dramatically when I was given just immunoglobulin when exposed to Hepatitis A several years ago (I am a retired RN)so it is not what is in the vaccine but how my immune system responds to it. Just something to think about. I have to explain this every time I am offered a flu vaccine and have to refuse. 😉

[Mary229]

18 minutes ago, paganwoman said:

Everyone is forgetting there are some of us who (for what ever reason medically) can not take this vaccine (or any vaccine) and so I am feeling that the airlines, cruise lines and so on will institute a policy of mandatory vaccinations (if medically able) and a medical excuse alone with a  negative test for those of us who can not take it. I am all for vaccines and if I could take them along with everyone believe me I would. I even reacted dramatically when I was given just immunoglobulin when exposed to Hepatitis A several years ago (I am a retired RN)so it is not what is in the vaccine but how my immune system responds to it. Just something to think about. I have to explain this every time I am offered a flu vaccine and have to refuse. 😉

I think for a year or two you will be prevented from certain travel activities.   I think the cruise lines, airlines, etc... prefer to wait until the government mandates the protocols.  Southwest has suffered mightily for following guidelines to the letter while others have ignored the guidelines. The media even condemned Southwest for strictly following the guidelines here in Texas but the publicly admirably backed SWA.  

In the same light,  my sis is also a hospital RN.  She is required by her state to have the flu vaccine but so far they are not requiring the Covid vaccine.  Her hospital has issued a statement that the vaccine the will be available in the workplace but no one is required to take it.  I find that interesting.

[Roz]

Mid-March (St. Patrick's Day) was when everything went to hell in a handbasket and workers and students were sent home and movement was restricted. We're coming up on the one year anniversary.  If people can't see an improvement in the number of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths by then, I think they're going to rebel against further restrictions. 

[Roz]

Why any medical professional who can physically tolerate the vaccine would turn it down is beyond me.  At the same time, we have a state rep here in TN who's a physician and is anti-vax and anti-mask.

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, Roz said:

Mid-March (St. Patrick's Day) was when everything went to hell in a handbasket and workers and students were sent home and movement was restricted. We're coming up on the one year anniversary.  If people can't see an improvement in the number of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths by then, I think they're going to rebel against further restrictions. 

I think things will steady out by then Roz, at least in North America.  Canada is already administering vaccine and the hospitals in the US supposedly started today, if not this week.  The Pfizer vaccine comes in units of 200 so every time they open a seal they will be looking for 200 folks to line up. I listened to a very good podcast this morning by WebMD published last week.  It was explained that the US' Operation Warp Speed started building vaccine "factories" as soon as the program was announced last spring thereby speeding up the manufacturing process immensely.  Most reliable experts I have read are predicting by the end of the first quarter all of the first two phases will be completed.  The first two phases include the first responders, the group living individuals, those over 65 and those with at least two existing conditions.  

[Roz]

@Mary229, I'm in the over 65 group and am looking forward to getting a vaccination.  Enough is enough!

[kazu]

29 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Canada is already administering vaccine

 

Not yet.  The vaccines are being shipped and the first ones will be administered on Monday (tomorrow).

[CruiserBruce]

28 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I think things will steady out by then Roz, at least in North America.  Canada is already administering vaccine and the hospitals in the US supposedly started today, if not this week.  The Pfizer vaccine comes in units of 200 so every time they open a seal they will be looking for 200 folks to line up. I listened to a very good podcast this morning by WebMD published last week.  It was explained that the US' Operation Warp Speed started building vaccine "factories" as soon as the program was announced last spring thereby speeding up the manufacturing process immensely.  Most reliable experts I have read are predicting by the end of the first quarter all of the first two phases will be completed.  The first two phases include the first responders, the group living individuals, those over 65 and those with at least two existing conditions.  

As no injection location in the US will receive their supply before tomorrow...maybe injections will start tomorrow.

[Mosaic]

1 hour ago, paganwoman said:

Everyone is forgetting there are some of us who (for what ever reason medically) can not take this vaccine (or any vaccine) and so I am feeling that the airlines, cruise lines and so on will institute a policy of mandatory vaccinations (if medically able) and a medical excuse alone with a  negative test for those of us who can not take it. I am all for vaccines and if I could take them along with everyone believe me I would. I even reacted dramatically when I was given just immunoglobulin when exposed to Hepatitis A several years ago (I am a retired RN)so it is not what is in the vaccine but how my immune system responds to it. Just something to think about. I have to explain this every time I am offered a flu vaccine and have to refuse. 😉

Thoughtful post, but yes.  This virus is not going away...best wishes...

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, paganwoman said:

Everyone is forgetting there are some of us who (for what ever reason medically) can not take this vaccine (or any vaccine) and so I am feeling that the airlines, cruise lines and so on will institute a policy of mandatory vaccinations (if medically able) and a medical excuse alone with a  negative test for those of us who can not take it. I am all for vaccines and if I could take them along with everyone believe me I would. I even reacted dramatically when I was given just immunoglobulin when exposed to Hepatitis A several years ago (I am a retired RN)so it is not what is in the vaccine but how my immune system responds to it. Just something to think about. I have to explain this every time I am offered a flu vaccine and have to refuse. 😉

The airlines quickly learned that making exceptions with mask wearing simply opened a Pandora's box and caused them lots of problems.  Now, no tolerance.  If you cannot wear a mask you cannot fly....even if you are 2 years old!   Will there be exceptions for no vaccinations?  Hard to know.  But you can be sure there are plenty of anti-vax folks who would know how to get a physician to sign a medical exception form.  The biggest losers when exceptions are abused are those that really need the exceptions.  We also saw this when airlines tried to be nice to folks who claimed to have emotional support animals.  Soon, every animal on the planet was an emotional support animal.  So now, most airlines do not recognize emotional support animals and even the US Department of Transportation has gone along with this new policy.  

 

My own guess is that when the cruise lines implement a mandatory vaccination policy (which I think is a no-brainer) they will make it difficult to get a medical exception...especially for the early years.  The problem with a medical exception for a vaccine is that if a person with a legitimate exception gets COVID on a cruise it impacts the entire cruise, all aboard, etc.  The nasty reality is that medical problems cause all kinds of restrictions.  While it is easy to say "that is not fair" it is reality.

 

Hank

 

 

 

 

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

As no injection location in the US will receive their supply before tomorrow...maybe injections will start tomorrow.

There was some talk from our governor's office that some vaccine had been delivered earlier this month 

[Randyk47]

2 hours ago, paganwoman said:

Everyone is forgetting there are some of us who (for what ever reason medically) can not take this vaccine (or any vaccine) and so I am feeling that the airlines, cruise lines and so on will institute a policy of mandatory vaccinations (if medically able) and a medical excuse alone with a  negative test for those of us who can not take it. I am all for vaccines and if I could take them along with everyone believe me I would. I even reacted dramatically when I was given just immunoglobulin when exposed to Hepatitis A several years ago (I am a retired RN)so it is not what is in the vaccine but how my immune system responds to it. Just something to think about. I have to explain this every time I am offered a flu vaccine and have to refuse. 😉

 My wife is in much the same situation.   She has an autoimmune condition that normally is not an issue but her hematologist won’t let her take a flu shot out of concern it could trigger her immune system to attack her whole body.   My wife met with her a few weeks ago and doctor said she would review the available vaccine or vaccines and decide whether or not it is safe for her to take.   My doctor is somewhat the same but in a more generic “wait and see”  approach.  He says he wants to review the vaccine or vaccines for all of his patients before he recommends one.    

[CruiserBruce]

37 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

There was some talk from our governor's office that some vaccine had been delivered earlier this month 

To some central holding areas. Not to injection sites.

[mcrcruiser]

Sunday Dec 13 ,2020 on ROX News Chris Wallace interviewed the lead doctor for the vaccine task force . This doctor indicated to get herd immunity it takes 75% to 8- % of all Americans except children under 16     . The percentages of people not wanting to take the vaccines which were displayed on the TV screen means that there initially will not reach herd immunity  . 

 

imo there is soooo much we just do not know yet about when sufficient vaccines will be available ;because at best every one is guessing . Then will there be enough vaccine for the front line  first responders ?   Then will there be many or few side effects reported  .Next really when will Moderna have their vaccine approved & out in the market  .Next when will Johnson N Johnson  one shot vaccine  be ready for approval & then to  the market 

 

   Not trying to throw cold water on the vaccines but   no one has a clue to answer all the questions ,not even the people at the top of the food chain  .What we are discussing here is pure conjecture  & also pure conjecture as to how or when cruise lines ,airlines or even countries are going to handle this in the future 

 

  We live in a imperfect world & it is now further cluttered  with this virus . I think praying is a better solution ,imo

 

  

 

 

 

   

[mcrcruiser]

We use ti say they thought then  they said  ,so you can just imagine ?

[CruiserBruce]

9 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Sunday Dec 13 ,2020 on ROX News Chris Wallace interviewed the lead doctor for the vaccine task force . This doctor indicated to get herd immunity it takes 75% to 8- % of all Americans except children under 16     . The percentages of people not wanting to take the vaccines which were displayed on the TV screen means that there initially will not reach herd immunity  . 

 

imo there is soooo much we just do not know yet about when sufficient vaccines will be available ;because at best every one is guessing . Then will there be enough vaccine for the front line  first responders ?   Then will there be many or few side effects reported  .Next really when will Moderna have their vaccine approved & out in the market  .Next when will Johnson N Johnson  one shot vaccine  be ready for approval & then to  the market 

 

   Not trying to throw cold water on the vaccines but   no one has a clue to answer all the questions ,not even the people at the top of the food chain  .What we are discussing here is pure conjecture  & also pure conjecture as to how or when cruise lines ,airlines or even countries are going to handle this in the future 

 

  We live in a imperfect world & it is now further cluttered  with this virus . I think praying is a better solution ,imo

 

  

 

 

 

   

Actually, some of this info is available...although perhaps not rock hard dates. Moderna's vaccine is being reviewed this coming week. If it goes similar to Pfizer's...we could see shipping by late next weekend or early the following week.

 

It is well known that the first loads of vaccine out the door for Pfizer and Moderna will not be enough for first responders. 

[mcrcruiser]

4 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Actually, some of this info is available...although perhaps not rock hard dates. Moderna's vaccine is being reviewed this coming week. If it goes similar to Pfizer's...we could see shipping by late next weekend or early the following week.

 

It is well known that the first loads of vaccine out the door for Pfizer and Moderna will not be enough for first responders. 

This is what we mean first it was said the Pfizer was gong to have  50 million shots for 25 million people this year & then  1.3 billion shote in 2021 .so it seems those numbers will not be met