Royal Caribbean sells 2 ships - Will Celebrity follow suit?

[wrk2cruise]

1 minute ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Remember they just announced the refit for the last two.

 

Did I miss something here?  Have they announced work on Connie and Infinity?  Can you elaborate?

[dkjretired]

34 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Can we believe the Celebrity presser that said they have no plans to sell the M Class ships.  Not rumour or speculation.  Remember they just announced the refit for the last two.

As for cruising not having demand.  Just think about how many ships have gone to the breakers!  More than in 2017-2019 combined.

Like I said don’t believe anything until you see a press release.

[cgolf1]

We are just patiently waiting to find out if our 2022 Connie cruise will be possible. Unfortunately for us the wait has been too long, because we moved our Jan 2021 APEX cruise to Late 2021 in the hopes we could do both. Now seeing that if the Connie goes bye bye moving the APEX cruise to early 2022 is a no go because the prices have gone up quite a lot since we last looked with the new promo. 

 

Just wish they would figure it out and be done with it.

[NMTraveller]

It would be nice if they would sell the E-class.  A step down for sure.

 

More profitable for Celebrity,  but not a cruiser ship.

[TeeRick]

22 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

The M class ships do fill a niche that X needs. They are necessary for cruises through the Panama canal.

The M-Class ships will fit in the old locks.  Larger cruise ships like S-Class and E-Class can go through the new locks.  But the issue is that these taller ships will not fit under the Bridge of the Americas on the Pacific ocean side of the PC.  I think one S-Class ship modified its funnel to be collapsible for certain bridges.  I don't remember which one.

[TeeRick]

12 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

It would be nice if they would sell the E-class.  A step down for sure.

 

More profitable for Celebrity,  but not a cruiser ship.

No chance they will sell the E-Class ships no matter what some think about them.  The only way is if the RCG corporation declares bankruptcy and has to liquidate assets.  

[phoenix_dream]

There are several facts to consider here.  First, companies do not normally pre-release confidential information through their employees, be they "concierge" or captain or whatever.  So that 'inside knowledge' is basically useless.  Second, how many times have companies denied they are doing something, and days or weeks later they announce they are doing exactly what they denied. I can certainly tell you that my company did that with some regularity.  So their denial is also basically useless.  May be true; may not be true.   Third, yes it is true that companies are bleeding money, and that means all cruise lines.  So while there may be some shifting around of ships, the market to buy old ships from other lines would logically be very small.  So I think (and this part is an opinion) it is logical to assume there will not be a lot of ships of any kind sold.  And while some ships may actually be scrapped, it is highly unlikely the M class ships are old enough or of that little use to be in that category (also my opinion).  Finally, it is true that Celebrity would seem to be foolish to waste time developing and releasing new itineraries if they intended to sell their ships.  It is also true that in the past they have done just that prior to selling their Century class ships.  So that theory, while it holds some logic, is also filled with uncertainty.

 

So bottom line, despite all the facts quoted, the end game at this point is only a matter of opinion.  Educated opinion admittedly, but still just opinion,

[phoenix_dream]

9 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

No chance they will sell the E-Class ships no matter what some think about them.  The only way is if the RCG corporation declares bankruptcy and has to liquidate assets.  

I agree it is highly unlikely they would sell them.  I could, however, see them creating a unique company/branding for those ships other than Celebrity.  I'm actually surprised they didn't do that already, although I would suppose it has to do with the additional administrative costs that would entail.

[NMTraveller]

On 12/18/2020 at 8:23 AM, C-Dragons said:

The M class ships do fill a niche that X needs. They are necessary for cruises through the Panama canal.

Celebrity is missing some highy desirable ports due to ship size.  Even M class will not get you into some ports.  I guess they are willing to give up the business to Azamara.  

 

What is the difference?  Pulling into port directly on the Amalfi Coast (small ship) vs. spending the majority of a day on the bus getting there and back (large ship).

 

This is probably the reason that Celebrity does not have a world cruise.  They do not have the small ships to pull it off.

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by NMTraveller

[WeMissSeaView]

On 12/17/2020 at 12:41 PM, ECCruise said:

Royal still had itineraries on Empress in Canada for fall, 2021 as recently as a couple of days ago.

I was booked on Empress in September 2021 and Royal kept stating that they had no plans to sell the Empress.

[TeeRick]

21 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Celebrity is missing some highy desirable ports due to ship size.  Even M class will not get you into some ports.  I guess they are willing to give up the business to Azamara.  

 

What is the difference?  Pulling into port directly on the Amalfi Coast (small ship) vs. spending the majority of a day on the bus getting there and back (large ship).

 

This is probably the reason that Celebrity does not have a world cruise.  They do not have the small ships to pull it off.

 

Just for context the Celebrity cruise line is a part of RCG corporation.  So from the corporate perspective they go from mega ships (RCCL Oasis Class) to mid-size and small ships (Azamara and Silversea).  Celebrity is in the middle of this range (except Flora).  It is our choice as consumers to choose and pay for the ship size we prefer.  

Edited December 20, 2020 by TeeRick

[dkjretired]

58 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Just for context the Celebrity cruise line is a part of RCG corporation.  So from the corporate perspective they go from mega ships (RCCL Oasis Class) to mid-size and small ships (Azamara and Silversea).  Celebrity is in the middle of this range (except Flora).  It is our choice as consumers to choose and pay for the ship size we prefer.  

Azamara’s ships started in the Celebrity fleet before they were spun off so it was a conscious decision by corporate.

[phoenix_dream]

21 hours ago, WeMissSeaView said:

I was booked on Empress in September 2021 and Royal kept stating that they had no plans to sell the Empress.

Exactly!  Celebrity was doing the same thing when they sold the Century class ships.  

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, dkjretired said:

Azamara’s ships started in the Celebrity fleet before they were spun off so it was a conscious decision by corporate.

I thought that the Azamara ships came from Renaissance Cruises?  I did not think (or remember) them ever being part of Celebrity.

[C-Dragons]

13 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I thought that the Azamara ships came from Renaissance Cruises?  I did not think (or remember) them ever being part of Celebrity.

You are correct. They were originally R class ships belonging to Renaissance.

Edited December 20, 2020 by C-Dragons

[dkjretired]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I thought that the Azamara ships came from Renaissance Cruises?  I did not think (or remember) them ever being part of Celebrity.

They did come from Renaissance however for a very few months they were actually in the Celebrity fleet.  As a matter of fact the Journey was used instead of Horizon or Zenith, don't remember which, on the Bermuda run for one summer.  It was the only time that Journey actually had children's programs while it was in the Royal Caribbean family.   Shortly after that summer, they were spun off into Azamara.    

[Charles4515]

36 minutes ago, dkjretired said:

They did come from Renaissance however for a very few months they were actually in the Celebrity fleet.  As a matter of fact the Journey was used instead of Horizon or Zenith, don't remember which, on the Bermuda run for one summer.  It was the only time that Journey actually had children's programs while it was in the Royal Caribbean family.   Shortly after that summer, they were spun off into Azamara.    

 

Originally the Journey was to be with Celebrity but they changed their mind and it sailed to Bermuda in May 2007 as the Azamara Journey. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Charles4515

[wrk2cruise]

I was booked on the inaugural Quest sailing a 12 night Caribbean sailing Oct 19, 2007 which was cancelled due to the extended dry dock.  Remember Journey was not completed in time and they had people arriving at the dock and had to delay departure for a day or 2.   So they cancelled the first sailing of Quest.

 

They were originally marketing as Celebrity Expeditions and if I recall was being included with the Xpedition on Galapagos which of course if under the Celebrity division of RCG.   I thought they spun off the new division before Quest was brought online but that was a long time ago.

 

With all the changes with the introduction we were able to negotiate moving our protected price to a Celebrity Infinity sailing.

 

[NMTraveller]

8 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Just for context the Celebrity cruise line is a part of RCG corporation.  So from the corporate perspective they go from mega ships (RCCL Oasis Class) to mid-size and small ships (Azamara and Silversea).  Celebrity is in the middle of this range (except Flora).  It is our choice as consumers to choose and pay for the ship size we prefer.  

The problem is that if Celebrity gets rid of the M Class they will only have one size of ship Large.  Sure you can go to Azamara to get on a smaller ship.  But why not get on HAL or Princess for a smaller ship?

[upwarduk]

7 hours ago, dkjretired said:

Azamara’s ships started in the Celebrity fleet before they were spun off so it was a conscious decision by corporate.

Azamara ships were R ships,  which went bust in 2001. They were never in the Celebrity fleet.

The last one was bought by P&O and became Adonia and then acquired by Azamara in 2018 and rebranded as Persuit.

Edited December 20, 2020 by upwarduk

[Straughn]

On 12/18/2020 at 9:11 AM, TeeRick said:

Agree with you.  These two RCCL ships were 30 years old and not at all considered adequate for the modern state of cruising.  I know that they likely have their fans but for me I would have no intention of ever cruising on them.  But I think that is not the case with M-Class which are still very nice ships with modern amenities and fit into a size category that Celebrity cannot abandon.  I would cruise (and have) M-Class with no hesitation.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this. The M class ships fill a vital niche. With the decision to  move X into the luxury level of cruise lines, they need ships with lower passenger capacity. One  hallmark of most luxury lines is small passenger load. The M class ships are are the closest X has to that. The M class ships are still greater numbers than most luxury lines, but are a lot smaller  than Edge class.

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Straughn

[Charles4515]

3 hours ago, upwarduk said:

Azamara ships were R ships,  which went bust in 2001. They were never in the Celebrity fleet.

The last one was bought by P&O and became Adonia and then acquired by Azamara in 2018 and rebranded as Persuit.

 

Technically Journey was a part of the Celebrity fleet. She was transferred to Celebrity but never did a Celebrity revenue sailing. They changed course and decided to make a new brand with the two R ships. 

[MightyMike]

I won't be sailing S-class until 2022, but I have sailed M-class three times. I believe the M-class ships have a lot of life left in them. I know that there are many S-class fans on this site, and won't know for sure until I try one, but I'm skeptical my S-class experience will be much different from my M-class experiences. They are a little bigger. They have a lawn (yawn). There are more specialty restaurant options. I don't see much of a differentiator that would entice Celebrity to abandon M-class yet.

 

As a matter of fact, I think some aspects of the M-class design are superior to S-class. There are lots of obstructions on the deck 6 cabins of S-class. M-class seems to avoid the need to categorize huge blocks of cabins as obstructed. 

 

Cruise ships underwent a huge design change during the 1990s. The big difference is balconies. Look at the two ships Royal Caribbean sold. Look at the many Fantasy-class ships that Carnival built around the same time. The hull supports lots of windows, but balconies are scarce. 

 

Now look at every ship deployed after 2000 (including M-Class)--deck after deck of revenue-generating balconies. Cruise ships made a remarkable transformation in the late 1990s. M-class is on the desirable side of this "revolution". The first ship I ever sailed on was a Carnival Fantasy-class ship. It was great for its time, but that design just isn't desirable anymore mainly due to the balcony situation. 

 

If Celebrity does sell off its M-class ships, I would see it as and act of true desperation. Those ships are certified money-makers. Selling them now would only impair their ability to recover once we get to the other side of the pandemic.

[ipeeinthepool]

10 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

The problem is that if Celebrity gets rid of the M Class they will only have one size of ship Large.  Sure you can go to Azamara to get on a smaller ship.  But why not get on HAL or Princess for a smaller ship?

 

Good question because Princess and HAL are often much less expensive.

[TeeRick]

16 hours ago, dkjretired said:

They did come from Renaissance however for a very few months they were actually in the Celebrity fleet.  As a matter of fact the Journey was used instead of Horizon or Zenith, don't remember which, on the Bermuda run for one summer.  It was the only time that Journey actually had children's programs while it was in the Royal Caribbean family.   Shortly after that summer, they were spun off into Azamara.    

Ok thank you for the clarification- not something I knew about.  In reality it does not really matter at this point.  Celebrity's smallest ships are M-Class which are still pretty large.  We would need to go to another RCG-branded line with smaller ships (the more expensive Azamara or Silversea) if for whatever reason loyalty still matters.  Or just choose another cruise line with whatever size ship and price point you are comfortable with.  Lot's of options!