Question on proof of Covid shot

[Ride-The-Waves]

Coronavirus in humans was first discovered in 1965 and caused a common cold.  The current SARS-CoV-2 version jumped from pangolins to humans in 2019.  Likely these "corona" shaped viruses will be with us a long time...

[Ride-The-Waves]

The issue of the authenticity of a record of inoculation against COVID-19 (and its strains) is really moot.  We have already completed the 2-shot sequence.  We still practice good PPE procedures when out of the house and in public.  Having a somehow "certified" record with me will not change how we interact with the world.  The WHO Carte Jaune is designed as an official international record of vaccinations, not just COVID-19.  It is accepted worldwide.  Can it or has it ever been counterfeited?  Most likely.  Like Polio if you have been vaccinated you are not likely to "catch" the disease.  Discovering counterfeit travel documents is not my responsibility, rather that of the host government.  And most immigration officials are really good at identifying counterfeits especially after a few questions.  In the mean time we carry our CDC record of COVID-19 vaccinating with us.  Anyone who counterfeits vaccinations for travel is in medical terminology, "nuts."

[NantahalaCruiser]

On 2/6/2021 at 6:12 PM, cruisingguy007 said:

There will be no mandatory vaccine unless the government mandates it and implements/pays for the application, monitoring, and compliance issues that may arise from such a program, as well as provides some form of blanket immunity from any type of liability. 

 

 

Why would a cruise line (or any private business) try and implement mandatory vaccines when no other government or major business has done so? It provides no benefit as there are not enough vaccines to make it viable, it opens you up to lawsuits, increases costs, and gives you a competitive disadvantage by eliminating customer base? There is zero incentive.

 

I very much doubt Carnival, or any private business for that matter, would try and take on an insurmountable task, that, when all is said and done, will be completely unnecessary once vaccines are widely available on demand; and essentially saddle themselves with another layer of self-imposed bureaucracy that increases cost, gives competitors an advantage, and that will be a nightmare to administer and ensure compliance?          

Except now there is a mandatory vaccine requirement; the following is from the American Queen Steamboat Company's website:

 

 

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

 

American Queen Steamboat Company and Victory Cruise Lines Announce Vaccination Requirement for all Guests and Crew Members

 

1. Why have you issued mandatory vaccines for guests and overnighting employees?

The health and safety of our guests, crew members and partners is our priority. While we are confident in the measures we have taken for itineraries operating from April through June, the implementation of the COVID-19 vaccine mandate will further ensure the wellbeing of the individuals who overnight on our vessels. Additionally, protecting the communities we visit on each itinerary is also a priority as the vaccine requirement will help provide an additional safety measure that we are mandating to safeguard these communities.

 

2. Will guests and crew members need to have received both doses of the vaccine prior to boarding?

Yes. If the vaccine that guests and/or crew members are administered requires two doses, they will need to have received both doses before embarking.

 

3. How will you know if guests and crew members have been vaccinated?

While boarding, all guests will be required to present verified documentation of vaccination. Crew members will also be required to present vaccination documentation, either at the time of hiring or boarding a vessel.

 

4. When will the requirement take place?

The mandatory vaccination requirement will begin on all itineraries starting July 1, 2021 and onward.

 

5. The timing for the COVID-19 vaccine eligibility varies from state to state. Will guests have access to vaccinations before they cruise?

The majority of our guests represent the 65+ population, who are eligible now or will soon be eligible to receive the vaccination. If a guest is not able to receive both doses of the COVID-19 vaccine prior to their scheduled trip, we will rebook them for a future sailing at no charge.

 

6. Will remaining health and safety protocols remain after the July 1, 2021 vaccination mandate?

Yes. Protocols will remain in place until the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends otherwise. These protocols include, but are not limited to:

• 100% testing of guests and crew prior to boarding
• Pre-boarding health questionnaire
• Temperature scanning
• Reduced ship capacity
• Mask requirement in all public spaces where social distancing is not possible
• Public spaces undergo continuous anti-microbial disinfection with medical-grade EPA-approved solutions and anti-viral electrostatic fogging
• Re-invented food & beverage concept to replace self-service buffets
• Quarantine rooms
• UVC light added to HVAC
• Crew training on all health and safety preventive measures
• Shore protocols (driver/hotel/concierge)
• On-board licensed nurse
• Reporting (FDA/CDC/local ports)
• COVID-19 insurance

 

7. Does the vaccination requirement apply to anyone boarding the vessels?

No. The current requirement applies only to those remaining overnight on the vessel. Although those that may be boarding the vessels and not staying overnight will undergo our mandated health and safety protocols. In addition, all drivers for shoreside excursions will also be vaccinated.

 

8. How can you be sure that every crew member will be vaccinated before July 1?

Per the CDC recommendations, Phase 1c vaccination rollout includes maritime transportation workers. We have no reason to believe that they will not have access to both doses of the vaccine by that time.

 

9. With vaccine mandate in place July 1, why sail prior? Isn’t this an added risk?

The health and safety of our guests, crew members and partners is our top priority. While we are confident in the measures we have taken for itineraries operating from April through June, the implementation of the COVID-19 vaccine mandate will further ensure the wellbeing of the individuals who overnight on our vessels.

 

To date, we have received strong interest for our April through June itineraries from guests who are confident in our current measures. Additionally, a good number of these guests will have had access to the vaccine prior. This, combined with our belief that crew will be vaccinated per the CDC recommendation Phase 1c vaccination rollout includes maritime transportation workers, further ensures our confidence to cruise safely.

 

10. What is the oversight of the boat by the CDC, FDA, Coast Guard and etc.?

We are working with the CDC, FDA and Coast Guard to ensure ongoing communication and compliance in order to safely resume operations.

 

11. For guests that have booked a cruise departing from July 1 forward, but do not plan on receiving the vaccine, will their deposit be refunded?

Guests who have booked a cruise for a sailing departing from July 1 forward who have no intention of receiving the vaccine will be fully refunded.

 

12. Will you require the vaccines (second dose) to be given 14 days in advance of the sail date?

Yes, 14 days after the second does or the single Johnson & Johnson dose, would be required.

 

 

I am sure other lines will eventually follow.  However, I note that they have not defined what the "verified documentation" will consist of.

Edited February 10, 2021 by NantahalaCruiser

[Honolulu Blue]

5 hours ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Except now there is a mandatory vaccine requirement; the following is from the American Queen Steamboat Company's website:

 

 

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

 

American Queen Steamboat Company and Victory Cruise Lines Announce Vaccination Requirement for all Guests and Crew Members

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing this.  I think they could have a bit of a crew problem starting July 1, but I hope they can avoid it.

[ovccruiser]

Interesting read, but we are going to need a World wide approach, what is happening in the US is not what is happening in Europe or the UK, we are using different vaccines and new vaccines are being made almost on a daily basis. Are the cruise lines going to know the names of all the vaccines and whether you needed one or two shots, 3 weeks or 12 weeks apart, and in the future, if what we are told about virus mutation, have you had your booster? 

 

I think it will have to be taken on trust, the same way as when I filled in your green card, now ESTA on me telling the truth. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by ovccruiser

[pc_load_letter]

Hilarious that anyone here things the .gov is capable of running and maintaining a database of those who have received a vaccination or not. 

[ed01106]

I don’t think many people would lie about this even if it wasn’t against the law.

 

  Lying about it in the US is a felony.  After one person is filmed exiting a hospital after recovering from Covid in handcuffs and the evening news flashes, “man faces up to 5 years in jail for false Covid vaccine certificate “. there won’t be many copycats.  

[Hangman115]

11 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

I don’t think many people would lie about this even if it wasn’t against the law.

 

  Lying about it in the US is a felony.  After one person is filmed exiting a hospital after recovering from Covid in handcuffs and the evening news flashes, “man faces up to 5 years in jail for false Covid vaccine certificate “. there won’t be many copycats.  

In the US, there are fahe drivers licenses. Fake green cards. Fake birth certificates. Fake Social Security cards. etc.....

And many of these fake records can be found as valid ID's on government computers

Grease the right palms and you can get anything. And more and more, government computers, federal, state and local computers all are vulnerable. 

And yes, there can be those out there that can, for a price, file hundreds, thousands and even millions of fake shot records.

And who knows how many who are going to take a cruise and refuse to get the shot. Maybe not your average Joe who pays a couple hundred for a cruise sailing. But maybe someone who pays thousands and tens of thousands or more for their cabin or a group of cruisers.

 

[ed01106]

1 hour ago, Hangman115 said:

In the US, there are fahe drivers licenses. Fake green cards. Fake birth certificates. Fake Social Security cards. etc.....

And many of these fake records can be found as valid ID's on government computers

Grease the right palms and you can get anything. And more and more, government computers, federal, state and local computers all are vulnerable. 

And yes, there can be those out there that can, for a price, file hundreds, thousands and even millions of fake shot records.

And who knows how many who are going to take a cruise and refuse to get the shot. Maybe not your average Joe who pays a couple hundred for a cruise sailing. But maybe someone who pays thousands and tens of thousands or more for their cabin or a group of cruisers.

 

People get fake DL, green cards, etc for one reason....they are unable to get a real one.  If your choose is either a fake green card or get sent to deported you have an incentive to go with the fake.  And you really don’t have much to lose.  Going to jail isn’t much worse than being deported and odds are you aren’t going to jail but ate being deported anyway.  Someone with a fake green card is desperate.

 

Vaccine are different situation.  Getting the vaccine will likely be easier to get than forging the card.  And people going on cruises have something to lose, they have money, jobs, houses, businesses, reputations.  The risk profile is different.  

[SelectSys]

2 hours ago, pc_load_letter said:

Hilarious that anyone here things the .gov is capable of running and maintaining a database of those who have received a vaccination or not. 

 

They can certainly do this.  A better question is what happens when they make a mistake and you suddenly find yourself on the no fly or travel list?

[Charles4515]

4 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

In the US, there are fahe drivers licenses. Fake green cards. Fake birth certificates. Fake Social Security cards. etc.....

And many of these fake records can be found as valid ID's on government computers

Grease the right palms and you can get anything. And more and more, government computers, federal, state and local computers all are vulnerable. 

And yes, there can be those out there that can, for a price, file hundreds, thousands and even millions of fake shot records.

And who knows how many who are going to take a cruise and refuse to get the shot. Maybe not your average Joe who pays a couple hundred for a cruise sailing. But maybe someone who pays thousands and tens of thousands or more for their cabin or a group of cruisers.

 

 

The vaccine passport will be digital.  Maybe it will be an identifier number like for TSA tied to a database. That seems to work. When I book a flight I enter the number. The same could work for a cruise. Or it could involve a QR code tied to a database. I doubt it will be a papercard. Or a plastic card that you visually read the record to confirm.  It will have a barcode like an airline boarding pass. The data will be on a server. I had my first dose a week ago and all that info about it, the date, location and type of vaccine is on a government server. I believe those who refuse get the shot won't be flying or cruising. Cruise lines will require it.   International travel too. I believe there probably will a vaccine passport. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Charles4515

[Aplmac]

On 2/7/2021 at 4:58 PM, Aplmac said:

So how about  a peel-off sticky sticker

that comes off/with actual bottle of vaccine used on you..

- that gets stuck onto your vaccination card,

stating manufacturer's batch number, etc.

along with a rubber stamp and signature, date and time?

 

I left out the BARCODE..

[cruisingguy007]

On 2/9/2021 at 9:10 PM, NantahalaCruiser said:

Except now there is a mandatory vaccine requirement; the following is from the American Queen Steamboat Company's website:

 

 

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

 

American Queen Steamboat Company and Victory Cruise Lines Announce Vaccination Requirement for all Guests and Crew Members

 

1. Why have you issued mandatory vaccines for guests and overnighting employees?

The health and safety of our guests, crew members and partners is our priority. While we are confident in the measures we have taken for itineraries operating from April through June, the implementation of the COVID-19 vaccine mandate will further ensure the wellbeing of the individuals who overnight on our vessels. Additionally, protecting the communities we visit on each itinerary is also a priority as the vaccine requirement will help provide an additional safety measure that we are mandating to safeguard these communities.

 

2. Will guests and crew members need to have received both doses of the vaccine prior to boarding?

Yes. If the vaccine that guests and/or crew members are administered requires two doses, they will need to have received both doses before embarking.

 

3. How will you know if guests and crew members have been vaccinated?

While boarding, all guests will be required to present verified documentation of vaccination. Crew members will also be required to present vaccination documentation, either at the time of hiring or boarding a vessel.

 

4. When will the requirement take place?

The mandatory vaccination requirement will begin on all itineraries starting July 1, 2021 and onward.

 

5. The timing for the COVID-19 vaccine eligibility varies from state to state. Will guests have access to vaccinations before they cruise?

The majority of our guests represent the 65+ population, who are eligible now or will soon be eligible to receive the vaccination. If a guest is not able to receive both doses of the COVID-19 vaccine prior to their scheduled trip, we will rebook them for a future sailing at no charge.

 

6. Will remaining health and safety protocols remain after the July 1, 2021 vaccination mandate?

Yes. Protocols will remain in place until the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends otherwise. These protocols include, but are not limited to:

• 100% testing of guests and crew prior to boarding
• Pre-boarding health questionnaire
• Temperature scanning
• Reduced ship capacity
• Mask requirement in all public spaces where social distancing is not possible
• Public spaces undergo continuous anti-microbial disinfection with medical-grade EPA-approved solutions and anti-viral electrostatic fogging
• Re-invented food & beverage concept to replace self-service buffets
• Quarantine rooms
• UVC light added to HVAC
• Crew training on all health and safety preventive measures
• Shore protocols (driver/hotel/concierge)
• On-board licensed nurse
• Reporting (FDA/CDC/local ports)
• COVID-19 insurance

 

7. Does the vaccination requirement apply to anyone boarding the vessels?

No. The current requirement applies only to those remaining overnight on the vessel. Although those that may be boarding the vessels and not staying overnight will undergo our mandated health and safety protocols. In addition, all drivers for shoreside excursions will also be vaccinated.

 

8. How can you be sure that every crew member will be vaccinated before July 1?

Per the CDC recommendations, Phase 1c vaccination rollout includes maritime transportation workers. We have no reason to believe that they will not have access to both doses of the vaccine by that time.

 

9. With vaccine mandate in place July 1, why sail prior? Isn’t this an added risk?

The health and safety of our guests, crew members and partners is our top priority. While we are confident in the measures we have taken for itineraries operating from April through June, the implementation of the COVID-19 vaccine mandate will further ensure the wellbeing of the individuals who overnight on our vessels.

 

To date, we have received strong interest for our April through June itineraries from guests who are confident in our current measures. Additionally, a good number of these guests will have had access to the vaccine prior. This, combined with our belief that crew will be vaccinated per the CDC recommendation Phase 1c vaccination rollout includes maritime transportation workers, further ensures our confidence to cruise safely.

 

10. What is the oversight of the boat by the CDC, FDA, Coast Guard and etc.?

We are working with the CDC, FDA and Coast Guard to ensure ongoing communication and compliance in order to safely resume operations.

 

11. For guests that have booked a cruise departing from July 1 forward, but do not plan on receiving the vaccine, will their deposit be refunded?

Guests who have booked a cruise for a sailing departing from July 1 forward who have no intention of receiving the vaccine will be fully refunded.

 

12. Will you require the vaccines (second dose) to be given 14 days in advance of the sail date?

Yes, 14 days after the second does or the single Johnson & Johnson dose, would be required.

 

 

I am sure other lines will eventually follow.  However, I note that they have not defined what the "verified documentation" will consist of.

 

Quite frankly, it means squat. Sounds like someone had "a great idea" without consulting counsel. I don't care to rehash the reasons this makes zero sense at this point, I've made my position quite clear on multiple occasions. This is a smaller outfit and even they may end up walking this back or quietly removing it. There is no point. The good news is that the CDC says that once you've been vaccinated, there is no need to isolate if you've been exposed to covid and also the Biden administration has secured an additional 200 million doses of vaccine, so there will be enough for every American who wants one. The rest will work itself out naturally and organically, no need for a mandatory non-FDA approved vaccine scheme that will be impossible to implement/enforce. Folks that want it, can get it, and we can press on and get back after it. Great news today! Time to get excited! 

Edited February 11, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[Coco54]

My question... are we going to have to have proof to cruise?  I am not one who believes it should come to this.  Should be like a flu shot. NOT MANDATORY!  I just had Covid. Naturally.  Why would I need a proof of vaccine.  I am not getting a vaccine when I just had the real thing.  To me this is just a way on control on the people.  My husband and I are avid cruisers.  Many, many cruises, but, this may be the end of them for us if they mandate proof, which makes us very sad.  Looks like we will just go to individual islands and stay.

[navybankerteacher]

21 minutes ago, Coco54 said:

My question... are we going to have to have proof to cruise?  I am not one who believes it should come to this.  Should be like a flu shot. NOT MANDATORY!  I just had Covid. Naturally.  Why would I need a proof of vaccine.  I am not getting a vaccine when I just had the real thing.  To me this is just a way on control on the people.  My husband and I are avid cruisers.  Many, many cruises, but, this may be the end of them for us if they mandate proof, which makes us very sad.  Looks like we will just go to individual islands and stay.

People can lie about being immunized either way - by having had the disease or by getting a shot.  (Not saying you would - but if the CDC, the cruise lines, the ports being visited, etc. feel that protection is necessary, you may have to come up with whatever proof they require.

 

It is not like the flu, with usually 20,000 US deaths per year - now closing on a half million, so there is no reason to apply the same approach.

 

Some of those islands my feel the same way.

 

It is not all about you.

Edited February 13, 2021 by navybankerteacher

[wdw1972]

53 minutes ago, Coco54 said:

  I just had Covid. Naturally.  Why would I need a proof of vaccine.  I am not getting a vaccine when I just had the real thing.  To me this is just a way on control on the people.  

Yes, it's a form of control - forcing people to do the right thing, just like seat belt laws, putting your babies in car seats, etc.  Too many people can't be trusted to be responsible and have enough common sense.  Your immunity will last perhaps 3-4 months, then you can be reinfected & go around infecting others.  That's why the recommendations to people who've had covid are still to GET THE VACCINE.  But, it's a choice - and we are all free to make the choice we can live with.  I had both my shots as soon as it was available to me (at work - January 7 & 28), because I plan to cruise & travel.  Plus, although my primary motivation was selfish (cruising & travel), it's also the right thing to do for society in general.  I don't mind doing my part to make the world a safer place.

 

Sue/WDW1972

[Hangman115]

3 hours ago, Coco54 said:

My question... are we going to have to have proof to cruise?  I am not one who believes it should come to this.  Should be like a flu shot. NOT MANDATORY!  I just had Covid. Naturally.  Why would I need a proof of vaccine.  I am not getting a vaccine when I just had the real thing.  To me this is just a way on control on the people.  My husband and I are avid cruisers.  Many, many cruises, but, this may be the end of them for us if they mandate proof, which makes us very sad.  Looks like we will just go to individual islands and stay.

Your comments are sincere. On the news I have heard many discussions that proof of covid must be within 90 days before sailing. Also a shot given 12 months or more before a sailing may not be accepted.  Also something might be required about a negative test taken 72 hours or max of 3 days before sailing. Not including any test the cruise line might give at the embarkation day.
 

By the way, testing IS NOT FREE. I have ten tests so far. YES TEN. I am trying to get testing and treatment at the hospital. My doctor tested me again about 11 days ago. Test results were NEG. So hospital said NO o cancer treatment.

I had to pay again and again and again for these covid tests. $150 a test adds up.

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Hangman115 said:

Your comments are sincere. On the news I have heard many discussions that proof of covid must be within 90 days before sailing. Also a shot given 12 months or more before a sailing may not be accepted.  Also something might be required about a negative test taken 72 hours or max of 3 days before sailing. Not including any test the cruise line might give at the embarkation day.
 

By the way, testing IS NOT FREE. I have ten tests so far. YES TEN. I am trying to get testing and treatment at the hospital. My doctor tested me again about 11 days ago. Test results were NEG. So hospital said NO o cancer treatment.

I had to pay again and again and again for these covid tests. $150 a test adds up.

 

My pre operative Covid test was paid by Medicare. The county is also doing free testing once a week a block from here once a week. I guess a test done 72 hours pre sailing might not be free. Possibly the cruise line will do a quick test before boarding. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Charles4515

[Hangman115]

A question on ptoof

My doctors. Even my PCP cannot get my shot records unless I sign a medical privacy release.
 

I saw my PCP recently. I had to sign a release to get documentation on when I had my shots for shingles, pneumonia, tetnus. Even for my last flu shor.

My question is. Those who had the covid shot already. What kind of medical release, if any, did you sign when you got your shot?
 

So if my PCP needs me to sign a medical release form so she can send it out to find out when I got my last flu shot. Which by the way it was Oct 2020.  What do we have to sign so cruise lines can see proof that I had the shot.

My PCP and some other doctors have told me they cannot get access to my medical records. Including my flu shot. Without a medical release form signed by me.And this was as recent as this month.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Hangman115

[Hlitner]

Vaccine data bases may not need to maintained by governments because the private sector is already heading in that direction.  Some of the airlines have already implemented their own data bases, some governments (such as in Denmark) are also heading in that direction, and digital documentation is quickly becoming the standard in parts of the world.  But make no mistake, vaccinations and proof thereof will be part of our future for at least the next few years.  For International travel vaccination documentation will quickly become as important as having a Passport.  I cannot imagine New Zealand, Australia or the EU admitting any tourists or business travelers without proof of a current COVID vaccination (and possible other vaccinations).    Testing may also become part of our immediate future. 

 

One irony about the USA is that DW and I must get negative COVID tests before we can fly back to the US next month.  On the other hand, we could fly domestically to Tijuana and simply walk across the border with no COVID test...or slip into the USA illegally with no need for a COVID test, and if we could convince ICE that we were indeed illegal they would put us up in a nice hotel (at government expense) and possibly arrange free transportation to our home town.   I am not sure that makes sense if we are serious about mitigating COVID....but that is the way it is.  Or consider a recent TV story I saw about an engaged (to marry) couple with the female being a Canadian living across the river near Detroit and her American fiance.  They only live a few miles apart but are not permitted to drive across the border to see each other.  But they can go to the airport and fly across the border.  Such is the world of COVID.  Many Canadian "snowbirds" own property in Florida where they spend the winter.  This year they were not allowed to drive across the border and south to Florida to their properties.  But they were allowed to get on a plane and fly to Florida where they then faced the extra expense of either renting or buying another car. 

 

Hank

[njhorseman]

3 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

A question on ptoof

My doctors. Even my PCP cannot get my shot records unless I sign a medical privacy release.
 

I saw my PCP recently. I had to sign a release to get documentation on when I had my shots for shingles, pneumonia, tetnus. Even for my last flu shor.

My question is. Those who had the covid shot already. What kind of medical release, if any, did you sign when you got your shot?
 

So if my PCP needs me to sign a medical release form so she can send it out to find out when I got my last flu shot. Which by the way it was Oct 2020.  What do we have to sign so cruise lines can see proof that I had the shot.

My PCP and some other doctors have told me they cannot get access to my medical records. Including my flu shot. Without a medical release form signed by me.And this was as recent as this month.

I didn't sign any release . If my PCP wants to get a formal record of my COVID-19 I would have to sign a release authorizing him to obtain the records.

I suspect that if cruise lines wish to or are required to obtain your COVID vaccination records they will include a release form as supplement or amendment to the passenger ticket contract that every passenger is required to sign.

 

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Vaccine data bases may not need to maintained by governments because the private sector is already heading in that direction.  Some of the airlines have already implemented their own data bases, some governments (such as in Denmark) are also heading in that direction, and digital documentation is quickly becoming the standard in parts of the world.  But make no mistake, vaccinations and proof thereof will be part of our future for at least the next few years.  For International travel vaccination documentation will quickly become as important as having a Passport.  I cannot imagine New Zealand, Australia or the EU admitting any tourists or business travelers without proof of a current COVID vaccination (and possible other vaccinations).    Testing may also become part of our immediate future. 

 

One irony about the USA is that DW and I must get negative COVID tests before we can fly back to the US next month.  On the other hand, we could fly domestically to Tijuana and simply walk across the border with no COVID test...or slip into the USA illegally with no need for a COVID test, and if we could convince ICE that we were indeed illegal they would put us up in a nice hotel (at government expense) and possibly arrange free transportation to our home town.   I am not sure that makes sense if we are serious about mitigating COVID....but that is the way it is.  Or consider a recent TV story I saw about an engaged (to marry) couple with the female being a Canadian living across the river near Detroit and her American fiance.  They only live a few miles apart but are not permitted to drive across the border to see each other.  But they can go to the airport and fly across the border.  Such is the world of COVID.  Many Canadian "snowbirds" own property in Florida where they spend the winter.  This year they were not allowed to drive across the border and south to Florida to their properties.  But they were allowed to get on a plane and fly to Florida where they then faced the extra expense of either renting or buying another car. 

 

Hank

As I pointed out to you  a week or two ago on another thread the CDC is planning to maintain a COVID-19 vaccination data base . The mandated data are specified in the CDC's COVID vaccination "playbook" that was issued about four months ago

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, njhorseman said:

As I pointed out to you  a week or two ago on another thread the CDC is planning to maintain a COVID-19 vaccination data base . The mandated data are specified in the CDC's COVID vaccination "playbook" that was issued about four months ago

If and when that happens there will be conflicting issues with HIPAA that would likely be pushed by some private groups like the ACLU.   I can think of no legal problem with them developing and maintaining such a data base ( the ACLU would probably see it differently) but the HIPAA conflict would involve their ability to share that information with anyone unless they first get the expressed permission from each impacted person in that data base.   In an ideal world this data base would have been set up long before the first vaccination and then they could have asked each person for their written permission to disclose vaccination info.  HIPAA can be a real pain in the behind (one of my prior hats was as a HIPAA Coordinator for a major State agency) and difficult to work with because the underlying rules are contained in a Statute.   

 

Hank

[ontheweb]

19 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

If and when that happens there will be conflicting issues with HIPAA that would likely be pushed by some private groups like the ACLU.   I can think of no legal problem with them developing and maintaining such a data base ( the ACLU would probably see it differently) but the HIPAA conflict would involve their ability to share that information with anyone unless they first get the expressed permission from each impacted person in that data base.   In an ideal world this data base would have been set up long before the first vaccination and then they could have asked each person for their written permission to disclose vaccination info.  HIPAA can be a real pain in the behind (one of my prior hats was as a HIPAA Coordinator for a major State agency) and difficult to work with because the underlying rules are contained in a Statute.   

 

Hank

Yes, wonderful rules HIPPA. I remember a time when it first went into effect that when I went to the dentist they had you sign in, but covered all the names before yours. But some of those people were sitting there with you in the waiting room. And if you live in a fairly small town for a long time, you recognize many of them.

[wowzz]

On 2/10/2021 at 8:57 PM, pc_load_letter said:

Hilarious that anyone here things the .gov is capable of running and maintaining a database of those who have received a vaccination or not. 

I suppose it depends on which government you are takking about. The UK government has a complete database of all those who have received a vaccination, including the batch number of the vaccine given.