14 night cruise/back-to-back conundrum

[Bruin Steve]

NOTE:  It’s a long rant, feel free to skip to the last couple of paragraphs if you don’t want to read my build-up.

 

Okay, I am a little tired of only participating on Covid-related threads...So, I’m looking to expand the discussion a little...even though this is tangentially connected to the pandemic as the whole lift-and-shift thing got me thinking about this.

 

I’ve been thinking about my upcoming cruise bookings and a little frustrated at the thought of what will happen if they are canceled again…

 

First, a little history:  When we first started cruising, it was the “trial size” variety--the short 3 and 4 night cruises.  Our very first cruise was a Disney deal (actually, the old “Big Red Boat”).  My wife wasn’t sure she wanted to cruise--wanted to take the daughters (then 3 and 5) to Disney.  I wanted to cruise. The Big Red Boat was a compromise--3 nights on the ship, 4 nights at Disney in Orlando.  When we were done, my wife commented that we probably should have done the 4 night cruise/3 night Disney version.  I responded that we should have just taken a 7-night cruise and tacked on a couple of nights pre-cruise at Disney on our own.  But, one thing was clear--we really wanted to do longer cruises…

 

So, eventually, we moved on to 7-night cruises.  And, after a while, even those felt too short...Seems like you just got on board, learned your way around the ship...and, suddenly, it was over. 

 

Then, we decided to cruise in Europe.  My wife chose the Baltic.  My travel agent strongly recommended we do it with Celebrity.  Celebrity had marvelous 14 night Baltic cruises.  But we had to wedge the cruise into a narrow window--with my older daughter needing to take Chemistry in Summer School and my wife needing to be back to work on a specific date.  None of the Celebrity Baltic cruises fit into the window...but Princess had a 10-night cruise that did.  So, we went with Princess…

 

Afterward, we decided even 10 nights was too short for a European cruise...If we were going to fly all the way from California to Europe...invest all of that time and all of that money, the length of the cruise really needed to make that worthwhile...and, the longer the cruise, the more comfortable we become just being on the ship…

 

So, the next time we did a Europe cruise a couple of years later, we booked a 13 night cruise on Millennium...and it was wonderful...Even the itinerary was outstanding--one way from Venice to Barcelona, mixing in a nice variety of ports in several countries...and we tacked on a multi-night hotel stay on both ends.

 

After that, we kept booking 14 night itineraries in Europe (and a 16)...one way, if we could find it...mixing in some nice pre- and post-cruise stays.

 

Then, over the past few years, we started noticing fewer and fewer and fewer 14 night cruises.  It seems Celebrity shrunk those like ice cream manufacturers shrunk the old half gallon cartons to 1.5 quarts...A LOT of 7-night cruises and a few 9, 10 and 11 nights sprinkled in...So, a few years ago, we were forced (or so it seemed) to do two 7 night cruises back to back to get the equivalence of a 14 night cruise.  Luckily, we were able to find a ship alternating completely different 7-night itineraries--7 night Greek Island out of Civitavecchia followed by a 7 -night Western Med out of Civitavecchia...So, we dealt with starting AND ending on the same port and having a turnaround day there as well, but, at least all of the other ports were different.

 

2019, our last pre-Covid Celebrity cruise, we ended up with back-to-back 12-nighters on Reflection out of Amsterdam...Thanks to good scheduling by Celebrity, the first was a Baltic, the second British Isles...making it a 24-night experience with completely different ports (aside from start/end/turnaround in Amsterdam…

 

So, for 2020, with scant few decent longer cruises and few in the 14-night range, we found a well-scheduled back-to-back--two distinct itineraries, Rome to Venice, Venice to Rome...Of course, soon after, they replaced the Dubrovnik stop on one of them with what would be a duplicate stop in Kotor...but, okay, we could take one repeat stop.  Of course, then, due to Covid, the whole thing was canceled.

 

We decided to lift-and-shift it to 2021...and that is where it started getting interesting.  The schedules changed and no longer was the ship doing DIFFERENT back-to-back itineraries...Now they were doing very similar itineraries in both directions--multiple duplicate ports. We ended up changing to two different ships with one ending in Rome, the second starting in Rome--but two days apart.

 

Now, I understand that a lot of people--due to budget concerns or due to time concerns--cannot or do not want to cruise for more than 7 nights...so, it makes sense to offer a lot of 7 night cruises.  And, perhaps, it is harder to fill up ships with 14 night itineraries.  So, maybe, that 7-night structure works out well for marketing purposes.

 

But, in the interest of giving those of us who want that longer cruise a few better options--or any options at all, what I would ask of Celebrity is to please not schedule ships, especially in Europe, with all the same 7-night cruises over and over...or with the same 7 night one-way cruises merely repeating themselves in reverse order the next week.  Please consider scheduling ALTERNATING 7-night cruises with completely different ports.  That way, those 7-night cruisers can choose the itinerary they want...and those of us who would prefer a longer experience to stay onboard for any two consecutive cruises and get different ports for each leg.  ...and, maybe, once in a while, give us a good 14 night cruise with a variety of ports during a popular cruising season

Edited February 19, 2021 by Bruin Steve

[Denny01]

I agree with your point of doing B2B’s especially when going to Europe. We’ve done it a number of times with a few ending withTA’s and with staying a number of days in the port of Departure areas. And agree they need to make the crises different, kind of the Caribbean West/East cruises and so on. 

 

But in truth, the original Apex B2B you had, 10 and 17 July, only had one same port, La Spizia, and yes, the others are a bit close (Nice and Montcarlo) but they do have different tours and options, especially with Ibizia and Palma which are very different even though they are in the same island chain. So I think although the Apex did the West Med Barcelona-Roma-Barcelona B2B, you might have found the ports different enough. But certainly not as different as your Infinity 2nd leg. 

 

enough. I agree with your approach, but unfortunately, cruises such as the Baltic runs are done multiple times and so on. 

 

So you came up with a very good way around this. It’s a pain changing ships, but you’ll have a good experience on not only Very different ports but Very Very different ships - we love both! And the Infinity cruise is fantastic with Malta (our favorite Med island) followed by Corfu, both are very unique. I did Corfu while in the Navy and it is a perfect escape island. 

 

Den

 

 

[NantahalaCruiser]

Den

 

We feel your pain!  The only decent 14 night cruise "somewhat near Europe" in 2022 is the June 11th cruise to Iceland and around the British Isles

 

Perhaps you can consider an Asian 14 night cruise in the future.

 

Larry

[Host Jazzbeau]

This is true of all the large-ship cruise lines that I know of.  MSC ships in the Med do the exact same 7-day itinerary over and over all season long – which is great if you need to fit a cruise into a narrow window [what day can you start?  they let you get on at almost any port].  And apparently that's what sells.  To do what you want to do [and what I like to do], you need to go to the small-ship cruise lines.  Azamara is one of the best for this:  many cruises are longer than 7 days and almost all are 'one-way' that then continue on a totally different itinerary.  Windstar is another that does this.  [And if you book Azamara now, before the separation is complete, you will get your full Celebrity loyalty status.]

[upwarduk]

7 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

Afterward, we decided even 10 nights was too short for a European cruise...If we were going to fly all the way from California to Europe...invest all of that time and all of that money, the length of the cruise really needed to make that worthwhile...and, the longer the cruise, the more comfortable we become just being on the ship…

Couldn’t agree with you more, we rarely do less than 14 days. The only time we did was a very short 2 day, Amsterdam to Southampton, repositioning, which got us to Elite.

I hadn’t realised that CelebrityCruises had taken most ( or all) 14 day cruises away, as last year’s cancelled Mediterranean cruise was 14 days from Southampton. 
Never having done a B2B before, it will be interesting, will Celebrity allow them?

 

Edited to add:

Host Jazzbeau

A very good reason to persuade my husband to look again at Azamara, once they start sailing again. Our one and only sailing was a TA, Southampton to Montreal, with 4 ports on each side of the ‘pond’ in 2016.
Wonderful experience.

Edited February 19, 2021 by upwarduk

[prish]

Except for Alaska we cruise exclusively in Europe, our preference being for the 14N/15D sailings. But there’s fewer and fewer of them now, only a couple of 10/12 nighters.

 

I remember in June 2014 we did a Venice-Istanbul 7 nighter and Celebrity had four such itineraries that month with only 2-3 ports being repeated. A couple of folks we did tours with were booked on a B2B2B. Nothing of that sort now, just the tried and tested formula!

[chemmo]

Totally understand your frustration!

 

The only thing I would say is that in most European ports there are multiple options of things to do. For example, Greek Islands can  be visited as a cultural tour, a beach break, a historical tour, a food and wine experience....We have visited lots of the ports on multiple occasions and never find them repetitive. I could cope with a repeated back to back. Often on a first visit to a port you feel you ‘must see’ the key features, on return trips you can follow your own interests more. For example, if we had only visited Barcelona once we would never have explored the football stadium or their museum of antiquities...

 

Worth looking at other cruiselines but equally worth just seeing what you can make of the shorter Celebrity ones.

 

Good luck, hope you find an option that suits you.

[ChucktownSteve]

I agree with Host Jazzbeau and chemmo about including consideration of other lines.  That's why a few years ago we selected Azamara for our 12 night Baltics cruise in 2017. It was the best cruise we ever booked for several reasons.

 

I suspect one of the reasons XX went to shorter 7 days cruise lengths is they can generate more revenue on the turnaround two cruises than a longer one.

[lyndarra]

4 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

This is true of all the large-ship cruise lines that I know of.  MSC ships in the Med do the exact same 7-day itinerary over and over all season long – which is great if you need to fit a cruise into a narrow window [what day can you start?  they let you get on at almost any port].  And apparently that's what sells.  To do what you want to do [and what I like to do], you need to go to the small-ship cruise lines.  Azamara is one of the best for this:  many cruises are longer than 7 days and almost all are 'one-way' that then continue on a totally different itinerary.  Windstar is another that does this.  [And if you book Azamara now, before the separation is complete, you will get your full Celebrity loyalty status.]

Nov  2019 MSC 20 days, Genoa/Miami. That's a few more than 7 so does that not count? Did it for the itinerary, oh, and price including single supplement. Ship was full so I guess longer cruises sell too. (24 hours flying home Miami/Doha/Sydney).

Edited February 19, 2021 by lyndarra

[pl281]

@Bruin Steve

 

You make some great points - I would say at this point if you want to stay in the "Royal" Family you probably want to look at SilverSea (I would have previously said Azamara Cruises)

 

Other lines which are in the NCL family are Oceania or Regent

 

I find that these lines tend do more port intensive / longer cruises - most are one way - they usually alternate between 2 "home ports" for a few weeks and then move onto the next area.

 

These are also the groups that typically do the "World Cruises"

 

I will also say (having been on Oceania and Regent) that at first glance you may get sticker shock, however many of them include air travel and many include excursions as well.  So if you were to look at your total cost of all the components on Celebrity and then see what is included in the fair - we found that price wise that they came out to be similar. 

 

Most of the ships on these lines are smaller - the ship is really just the transportation - it's the ports / places you get to go see and do that is what you are doing.

[Bruin Steve]

4 hours ago, chemmo said:

 

The only thing I would say is that in most European ports there are multiple options of things to do. For example, Greek Islands can  be visited as a cultural tour, a beach break, a historical tour, a food and wine experience....We have visited lots of the ports on multiple occasions and never find them repetitive. I could cope with a repeated back to back. Often on a first visit to a port you feel you ‘must see’ the key features, on return trips you can follow your own interests more. For example, if we had only visited Barcelona once we would never have explored the football stadium or their museum of antiquities...

That, typically, might be my advice to someone as well...but, for us, we’ve already done 16 European cruises...plus several extended European “land trips”.  We never cruise to do beach visits...we live just minutes from the beaches of Malibu...and I grew up, literally, a block from the beach here (my bedroom in my childhood home growing up had an incredible view of the Pacific)...So we just don’t travel thousands of miles to lie out on the sand and get a tan.  You mention Barcelona—we’ve visited Barcelona about 10 or 12 times now, most of them for multiple days...we’ve even done multiple day trips out of Barcelona to Girona and Figueras and elsewhere.  I love Barcelona...and, if this July’s cruises happen, we have 4 nights planned there...but, like most ports, we don’t need multiple port stops there.  And many other ports that seem to be staples of most current Celebrity itineraries...like Santorini or Mykonos or Dubrovnik or Villefranche  or Malta are also places we’ve visited several times.  I really don’t mind visiting most again, but, having visited Santorini so many times, almost an6tour we do there is a “repeat” for us and I’d rather not repeat twice on the same visit.

 

We usually search out cruises with at least a couple of new ports for us...and, prior to the pandemic lift and shifts, we had that in Zadar and Rijeka...But both were removed from all of the lift-and-shift eligible itineraries.  Our original itineraries had included a duplicate stop in Kotor-which we’d been to multiple times before...and we had decided to do a winery tour with one visit, but, for the other, we had found a private tour which included some places we’d visited before-like Budva and Kotor itself, but also a couple of new spots...but one of the complications of pandemic is that it’s much harder to put together groups for private tours and most people on the sparsely populated roll calls are thinking they’ll have todo shorexes...including us because we've been given so much OBC...

 

[chemmo]

Definitely time for you to visit the Far East!

[Bruin Steve]

14 minutes ago, chemmo said:

Definitely time for you to visit the Far East!

Well....as it were, we are doing that as well...We’ve already done a 14 night Southeast Asia cruise and a long China tour/river cruise with Viking.   We HAD a 29 night back-to-back scheduled for April/May 2021 on Millennium to Japan and Transpacific...But, alas, that was canceled and, due to family/religious holiday conflicts, we were only able to lift-and-shift the 14 day Japan cruise to March 2022...

 

i know...few people feel sorry for me...rich people problems...

[chemmo]

3 minutes ago, Bruin Steve said:

Well....as it were, we are doing that as well...We’ve already done a 14 night Southeast Asia cruise and a long China tour/river cruise with Viking.   We HAD a 29 night back-to-back scheduled for April/May 2021 on Millennium to Japan and Transpacific...But, alas, that was canceled and, due to family/religious holiday conflicts, we were only able to lift-and-shift the 14 day Japan cruise to March 2022...

 

i know...few people feel sorry for me...rich people problems...

 

Keep travelling and enjoying whatever you can put together for as long as you can...

 

After cruising and land touring for many years we are now finding it is ‘joints’ rather than itineraries that are slowing our choices and pleasure!

 

I must confess one of the best holidays we have enjoyed in recent years was booking a villa in the countryside of Mallorca. We booked it as simply a crash out but found spending time in a small area gave us another outlook on absorbing local culture/ambiance...

 

Have you visited Australia or New Zealand yet, just two more fabulous options?

 

Finally owing to recent circumstances last year was spent very locally. Amazing what wonderful places are in your own back yard, no matter where you live....

 

Why not look at booking some unusual accommodation over here in the U.K. for 4/6 weeks? Miss out the usual ‘Must see’ places and put your own tour together. How about a river boat on the Norfolk Broads, a light house on the Welsh Coast, a shepherds hut in Yorkshire...All easy to organise yourself once life gets somewhere near back to normal...

 

We have enjoyed touring the US on many occasions and often the highlights have been the little ‘out of the way’ places not the major attractions...

 

 

[Ken the cruiser]

@Bruin Steve, like you we started small, but have grown these past few years to enjoying 3-5 week cruises on dare I say multiple cruise lines as the itinerary plays a major role in our decision. As far as Med itineraries go, check out the Regal Princess 21 day cruise in July 2022. It is made up of three 7 day cruises and doesn't hit the same port twice.

 

Cruise Details - 21-Day Mediterranean Collection - Princess Cruises

 

But, we have another trigger which also plays a key role in our decision making process that has broadened our cruising adventure - wildlife. Some of the best itineraries we've been on where wildlife is in abundance includes the Galapagos, Antarctica, Australia and Alaska. Another wildlife-rich itinerary which we have booked the end of 2022 is cruising on the NCL Jade along the eastern side of Africa, where we have 3 "day long" safaris booked at different ports along the way. There's also another 19 day cruise from Athens to Dubai preceding it if you haven't sailed the Suez Canal and visited Luxor and the Valley of the Kings yet.

 

Cruises to Africa from Dubai, United Arab Emirates (ncl.com)

 

Just some suggestions if you enjoy watching animals in their native habitats.

[Bruin Steve]

1 hour ago, chemmo said:

 

Keep travelling and enjoying whatever you can put together for as long as you can...

 

After cruising and land touring for many years we are now finding it is ‘joints’ rather than itineraries that are slowing our choices and pleasure!

 

I must confess one of the best holidays we have enjoyed in recent years was booking a villa in the countryside of Mallorca. We booked it as simply a crash out but found spending time in a small area gave us another outlook on absorbing local culture/ambiance...

 

Have you visited Australia or New Zealand yet, just two more fabulous options?

 

Finally owing to recent circumstances last year was spent very locally. Amazing what wonderful places are in your own back yard, no matter where you live....

 

Why not look at booking some unusual accommodation over here in the U.K. for 4/6 weeks? Miss out the usual ‘Must see’ places and put your own tour together. How about a river boat on the Norfolk Broads, a light house on the Welsh Coast, a shepherds hut in Yorkshire...All easy to organise yourself once life gets somewhere near back to normal...

 

We have enjoyed touring the US on many occasions and often the highlights have been the little ‘out of the way’ places not the major attractions...

 

 

Chemmo, 

i appreciate the thoughts.  Both my wife and I retired early...and we figured these were the years when we would really get to enjoy a lot of travel...while we were still in relatively good health and able to go anywhere. I guess it’s why I feel a little cheated by the Covid pandemic.

 

My wife actually just retired from a 25 year career as a school psychologist  at the end of this last school year...and we had been looking forward to flying to Italy 4 days after her last day of work.  And that 29 nights of Japan  and Transpacific cruising...with 4 nights pre-cruise in Tokyo and a week visiting our daughters in Portland after ending the cruise in Vancouver was to be our first long trip during what used to be her work year.

 

As to Australia/New Zealand, yes, we have cruised there.  I actually have a bit of family in Australia...and I always joke that when our cruise mates were all touring the sites in Sydney and Melbourne, we were just spending time with family...visiting their homes, their favorite neighborhood restaurants,,,and seeing sights like where their kids went to school.  The highlight was watching my cousin talk my wife into trying Vegemite.  Of course! Yes, there is something special in doing that as well as typical tourist activities.

 

And we have toured quite a bit of the UK as well, often prior to or after a cruise...We have, aside from the typical tourist visits to London:

—hired a car and spent about a week and a half driving a loop all the way up to Scotland and return...

—spent a week in Wales...

—spent several night in Canterbury...

—spent 10 days based in Falmouth touring Cornwall

...among other visits...

My wife loves the UK and has been begging to do a return visit to Cornwall.

For me, having hired a car for the trip, I am just happy to have made it out alive.  When we got to the ship, I would relate the details of our pre-cruise and other Americans would ask me “so, you drove on the wrong side of the road?” And I would respond, “No, not in Cornwall” and they would look puzzled...”They drive on OUR side of the road?”...”No, in Cornwall, the roads are so narrow, there is only ONE side o& the road...and there are old stone walls on either side, so you’d better have a small car”...and they’d ask “so, they are one-way roads.”...”No...”

Edited February 19, 2021 by Bruin Steve

[travlr21]

We too started small, with Celebrity our first was a 3 night Pacific Coastal, from there it was 13 nights, then 16 nights, and finally doing B2Bs for 28 nights or so. That was typically a European cruise with a TA tacked on. Then we dared a longer B2B2B which was 38 nights. Disclaimer, all this after we retired, and we don't have kids. Spending it so the tax man does not get it!

 

When we decided we wanted to see a bit of Asia is when we realized that Celebrity would not work for us there. There were typically shorter segments, repeated itineraries and breaks in the schedule - which I would suspect were charters. We looked at Regent and ended up booking 4 segments which covered 63 nights, started in Rome and ended in Beijing. There were no repeated ports. It was pricy, but it included business class air fare, all excursions and a 3 days extension in Beijing. Not to mention internet and drinks on board. Also, with Regent if your cruise takes you to a different level in their loyalty program, you qualify for the benefits when you first step on board that cruise, so we had a few benefits on the first day of the cruise. 

 

We were scheduled on the Apex TA last fall, so we are sitting on a FCC and will wait until things settle down before booking our next Celebrity cruise. We are excited about the new Pacific coastal options. Every day gets us one day closer.

[cantstopingcruising]

It sounds like you may be cruised out.

Perhaps you would enjoy something different.

 

We love to park ourselves in one place for a few weeks and get to feel like locals.

You can do this somewhere you have not been, probably off the beaten path.

 

Have you visited the white towns of Analucia in Spain? All the islands in Greece? Puglia in Italy?  There are so many. It would be fun to search!

 

Good luck! Whatever you decide, I hope you will be able to do it in the near future. We are still cancelling.

[Bruin Steve]

35 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

It sounds like you may be cruised out.

No, probably never...I love cruising...and we tend to blend travel strategies by adding lengthy pre and/or post cruise stays...After this summer's cruises (if they happen), we have 10 night is Austria planned.

 

And there are lots of itineraries we still plan someday to take...we just need to have our favorite cruise lines cooperate by offering them (and, yes, we are not closed to cruising only Celebrity--though we do prefer them...We've done about 20 on Royal Caribbean, 9 on Princess, 3 on Oceania and several others--9 different cruise lines altogether)...We'd love to cruise the Black Sea, the Indian Ocean and other destinations...it's just hard to find the right cruise lines at the right dates that fit our needs...And Celebrity, who we'd prefer, has really cut back on where they go...

[Host Jazzbeau]

8 hours ago, lyndarra said:

Nov  2019 MSC 20 days, Genoa/Miami. That's a few more than 7 so does that not count? Did it for the itinerary, oh, and price including single supplement. Ship was full so I guess longer cruises sell too. (24 hours flying home Miami/Doha/Sydney).

Trans-Atlantics are a different category.  20 days but how many ports?

[lyndarra]

33 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Trans-Atlantics are a different category.  20 days but how many ports?

Ten ports.

[nocl]

As the ships have gotten larger the variety of cruise options offered by the mainstream lines seem to getting smaller and smaller.

[cruisemom42]

Of the larger cruise lines, HAL tends to offer the best longer itineraries and the most different back-to-back itineraries. I am a non-loyal cruiser, have cruised with Celebrity, HAL, Princess and numerous smaller lines (including Azamara but also some very niche lines now defunct).  I have liked Celebrity for the ships but HAL for the itineraries, and itineraries are more important to me.

 

I have a similar story to yours, on Celebrity. Started out booking in 2018 for a 2020 Constellation BTB that was part Eastern Med and part transit through the Suez and around the Arabian peninsula. Then Celebrity decided to bring Connie back to Tampa earlier and not have sailings in the Arabian Sea. They threw a bucketload of OBC at me to stay with two somewhat less-interesting BTB cruises on Connie that were earlier in the season. (Keeping in mind I've been on a dozen or so Med cruises; new ports are hard to find....)  But I hadn't done Eastern Med in a few years so stuck with it. Then COVID.  I lifted and shifted to two 2021 BTB Connie cruises -- still Med but earlier by a couple of weeks and again I felt the ports were not as good.  

 

Finally, just recently Celebrity canceled Connie's 2021 Med season altogether. In order to not lose my perks and sizable OBC -- and thinking by now that any Med cruise is a good Med cruise -- I scrambled to find something and ended up with my two cruises transferred to Infinity, my only option. I had to move my cruises back to August, believe it or not, in order to find two BTB itineraries that were significantly different from each other....!  So what started as BTB Eastern Med + Suez + Arabian peninsula in November ended up as a BTB Venice to Barcelona to Lisbon in August!  And I have very little confidence that these will go either....

 

All of these changes except the lift-and-shift were the result of Celebrity decisions, not mine. If these two cruises are canceled, I feel they should provide me with some option to move to 2022. If I hear a "Nope, you already did a lift and shift, we have nothing for you," I suspect it will be quite a long time -- or a very unusual itinerary -- before I come back.

 

[upwarduk]

11 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Trans-Atlantics are a different category.  20 days but how many ports?

We did 8, but had to change to Azamara to do it. 4 ports each side of the ‘pond, ‘ on a 15 day Southampton to Montreal TA.

We did once do 4 on Celebrity, visiting 3 ports in France/ Spain before crossing the pond.

Edited February 20, 2021 by upwarduk

[Sam.Seattle]

On 2/19/2021 at 7:57 AM, Bruin Steve said:

i know...few people feel sorry for me...rich people problems...

😞