Vaccine Requirement News

[Jeremiah1212]

17 minutes ago, Stallion said:

So is this REALLY the first cruiseline that has made this proposal to the CDC? Seems like it should have been proposed  about the same day that the President said every American will have had the opportunity to receive the Covid vaccine by July 4. Its really the only logical avenue to resume cruising with a legitimate chance of success. If this is the first cruiseline to make this proposal then I don't understand all the criticism of the CDC. The cruiselines have to present their plans of operation

 

Reading some of the statements and watching videos put out by various cruiseline leadership over the past several months, the tone really does appear that they were perfectly content with a wait-it-out stance until recently. 

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, TheMiz said:

 

Thanks I have to be honest I didn't read it.

 

Isn't the County Health dept a government office ?

It would be, yes. 

[smokeybandit]

4 minutes ago, Stallion said:

I'd bet there is a federal law making forgery of government record a felony. I believe I've come across similiar laws in my practice

One could argue those vaccine cards are not government records.

[Stallion]

I believe that they are plus it includes the seal of the CDC which I am positive would be illegal to forge just like say a trademark for a private company

Edited April 5, 2021 by Stallion

[livingonthebeach]

26 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

It's a very desperate move, since they're keying of Biden's July 4 proclamation as well as the end of the CSO as the window their plan would exist in.

 

If the CDC denies NCL's request, assuming the ship is fully vaccinated and with the additional health and safety protocols, it is essentially sending the message that the vaccines don't work. 

[BSocial]

1 minute ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

If the CDC denies NCL's request, assuming the ship is fully vaccinated and with the additional health and safety protocols, it is essentially sending the message that the vaccines don't work. 

Good point 

[ATG]

When we got ours in South Carolina, they asked to see our identification.  We used drivers license.  She input the information into her computer, including DOB and address.  I assume there is a state database.

if someone comes down with Covid-19 on a cruise I would expect the cruise line to check their vaccination.  And if they forged it, they should be responsible for any expenses.  And they should be placed on a no sail list.

[Stallion]

 

Yep the FBI has issued a warning that forgery of a vaccination card is a felony-as suspected it becomes a crime because of the illegal use of the official seal:

 

Additionally, the unauthorized use of an official government agency's seal (such as HHS or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)) is a crime, and may be punishable under Title 18 United States Code, Section 1017, and other applicable laws

 

https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2021/PSA210330

Edited April 5, 2021 by Stallion

[firefly333]

1 minute ago, Stallion said:

 

Yep the FBI has issued a warning that forgery of a vaccination card is a felony-that get you because of the official seal:

 

Additionally, the unauthorized use of an official government agency's seal (such as HHS or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)) is a crime, and may be punishable under Title 18 United States Code, Section 1017, and other applicable laws

 

https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2021/PSA210330

What official seal? I got mine the first day the fairgrounds here in dallas were open. My name wasnt even filled out just the one line with the vaccination stuff entered,the rest left blank. No seal on my card. Computers werent even set up yet. 

[Stallion]

 

upper right hand corner of these examples

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=vaccination+card+example&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS930US930&sxsrf=ALeKk03e8hHo_sQyQmgdpIrR2ujQHwmU3g:1617637729824&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjGjIuSuufvAhUaWs0KHe1gDaIQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1920&bih=937

Edited April 5, 2021 by Stallion

[livingonthebeach]

I doubt anyone would forge a CDC vaccine card in order to cruise, but supposing one or two people did, I would much rather cruise with two unvaccinated people that I would never even come close to, than a plane with an unvaccinated majority of people.  

[smokeybandit]

Thing is there's no government GSA form ID on the card (the number on the back is just a template ID, not a controlled form ID) and the cards are not filled out,  issued or acknowledged by government officials.

 

The FBI could issue that threat just because of the logo but good luck with it holding up.

 

And how could one actually tell if a card is forged or not?  It's a handwritten name with stickers or handwritten vaccine lot info. There's zero way to verify the info on the card since who gave the shot is not listed (other than a scribbled signature/initials)

Edited April 5, 2021 by smokeybandit

[Stallion]

No forging a government logo is a big deal-believe me. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Stallion

[ONECRUISER]

57 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

Yes, and there was nothing that said "your name will be sent to the government"

Agree. My paper just asked was Pregnant, Smoker and such. Nothing else. My Primary care Physician didn't get notification I received Vaccine month ago, until I told them... Just looked it up on my Insurance Site, no charge, Bill or record my 2 shots at Rite Aide. Just received 2nd on Sat. Even when got the Flu shot at a Pharmacy it went into my Insurance and Primary Records. Weird.

Edited April 5, 2021 by ONECRUISER

[Jeremiah1212]

26 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

If the CDC denies NCL's request, assuming the ship is fully vaccinated and with the additional health and safety protocols, it is essentially sending the message that the vaccines don't work. 

 

The big risk is that they have essentially eschewed all of the other requests the CDC wanted covered in regards to contingency plans. No one ever imagined COVID would suddenly wreck havoc on cruise ships the way it did, and the reality is something similar could happen again whether it be a COVID variant, a different virus, who knows. A big concern is to avoid the situation where ports are saying we don't want those sick passengers dumped on our shores (quote from DeSantis himself). Unless there is more than meets the eye in their plan, this portion is ignored.

 

COVID isn't going away and regulations surrounding COVID aren't going anyway. Considering the Vessel Sanitation Program and how they handle norovirus, where the cruise lines participated in the regulation creation...it's a beast itself. I'm afraid the CDC response is going to be a thanks for trying, but no thanks. 

[grandgeezer]

55 minutes ago, TheMiz said:

 

 

Did you read the papers you sign when you get the vaccine ?

We never signed anything.

[Stallion]

 

BTW the intentional use of a forged vaccination card would also be a felony punishable by 5 years in prison. 18 USC sec. 1017

 

 

Whoever fraudulently or wrongfully affixes or impresses the seal of any department or agency of the United States, to or upon any certificate, instrument, commission, document, or paper or with knowledge of its fraudulent character, with wrongful or fraudulent intent, uses, buys, procures, sells, or transfers to another any such certificate, instrument, commission, document, or paper, to which or upon which said seal has been so fraudulently affixed or impressed, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 753; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(K), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 21

Edited April 5, 2021 by Stallion

[TheMiz]

3 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

 

 

COVID isn't going away and regulations surrounding COVID aren't going anyway. Considering the Vessel Sanitation Program and how they handle norovirus, where the cruise lines participated in the regulation creation...it's a beast itself. I'm afraid the CDC response is going to be a thanks for trying, but no thanks. 

 

Covid has been around for a long time.

 

[TheMiz]

5 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

We never signed anything.

 

 

No paper trail ?

[grandgeezer]

41 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

If the CDC denies NCL's request, assuming the ship is fully vaccinated and with the additional health and safety protocols, it is essentially sending the message that the vaccines don't work. 

There is a lot more than vaccinations that will determine if/when ships can sail. They could be lacking in other safety and health protocols.

[boscobeans]

2 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

We never signed anything.

NO... But there was a series of ORAL questions asking about your health care coverage, , the name and policy numbers, along with ORAL questions about your general health and also a VERBAL disclaimer with the warnings..  If you experienced anything different you should report it to the C.D.C. because that would be a violation in the immunization protocol.

[smokeybandit]

I had to give a digital signature when I got my appointment, but that was just the usual liability stuff.

 

Also no questions about insurance. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by smokeybandit

[livingonthebeach]

8 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

The big risk is that they have essentially eschewed all of the other requests the CDC wanted covered in regards to contingency plans. No one ever imagined COVID would suddenly wreck havoc on cruise ships the way it did, and the reality is something similar could happen again whether it be a COVID variant, a different virus, who knows. A big concern is to avoid the situation where ports are saying we don't want those sick passengers dumped on our shores (quote from DeSantis himself). Unless there is more than meets the eye in their plan, this portion is ignored.

 

COVID isn't going away and regulations surrounding COVID aren't going anyway. Considering the Vessel Sanitation Program and how they handle norovirus, where the cruise lines participated in the regulation creation...it's a beast itself. I'm afraid the CDC response is going to be a thanks for trying, but no thanks. 

 

This is part of NCL's letter which states they will not rely on any shoreside resources:

 

"We have worked tirelessly to ensure that our resumption of operations is guided by science and prioritizes the health and safety of our passengers, crew and the communities we visit. Most importantly, because our return to service plan mandates that the entire population onboard our vessels be vaccinated, our plan reduces the risk of outbreaks and severe COVID-19 cases. Accordingly, we will not require federal, state or local governments to incur time and/or resources in providing medical assistance to our brands’ guests as we have invested tens of millions of dollars in enhanced onboard health and safety protocols, including, but not limited to, enhanced hospital grade air filtration systems, cutting-edge contact tracing technology and significantly upgraded ICU and quarantine medical facilities. Our vessels are well equipped to handle the one-off case of infection that could occur, and our procedures are well detailed and resourced to treat, address and otherwise handle any isolated case onboard." 

[boscobeans]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I had to give a digital signature when I got my appointment, but that was just the usual liability stuff.

When you were getting your vaccination did they enter information concerning your insurance ?

 

[Jeremiah1212]

11 minutes ago, TheMiz said:

 

Covid has been around for a long time.

 

 

Yes, however COVID surveillance, reporting and health protocols onboard cruise ships, has definitely not.