Vaccine Requirement News

[boscobeans]

7 minutes ago, TheMiz said:

 

 

No paper trail ?

With almost any injection or prescription medicine there is a trail... Recording the drug, Manufacturer, lot #, exp. Date and other things in case of a recall.  

A bit more complicated than getting soft serve ice cream.  LOL

[gqboy1]

3 hours ago, boscobeans said:

And if a standardized "PASSPORT" or one that is easily verified with a scan is used, the passengers attempting to board should be refused boarding with NO REFUND OF THE ENTIRE CRUISE PAYMENT.

100000%

[boscobeans]

13 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

There is a lot more than vaccinations that will determine if/when ships can sail. They could be lacking in other safety and health protocols.

If you look at what the cruise lines have done with regulations and implementations of better HVAC, sanitation, masking, social distancing and capacity changes they have probably exceeded any air lines, hotels, restaurants or other now approved venues.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

42 minutes ago, Stallion said:

No forging a government logo is a big deal-believe me. 

And who exactly is going to figure out the card is forged?  Let's say, for the sake of argument...

 

A) Person A has a faked immunization card (which is not really hard to do).

B) Person A uses that fake card to:

• Go on a cruise
• Attend a ballgame
• Go to college

No one is even going to do more than take a quick look at the card.  But, let's say Person A comes down with Covid, or someone Person A was around comes down with Covid.

 

Do you REALLY think someone will think "hey, this card might be faked, let's start tracking down the information (that may or may not be available)!"  Or will they think "Person A fell in the 5% of people who the vaccine doesn't work for."?

 

Again, just because you get the vaccine does NOT mean you won't get Covid.  It reduces the possibility (but not to 0) and reduces severity.  Doesn't mean you can't get it and test positive. 

[Stallion]

Proving it would be among the easiest criminal cases. All you would need is testimony from a government expert that the card with the forgery  is not an official vaccination card plus proof that the person presenting the card did not obtain the vaccination card at the location indicated. Wrongful intent can be shown by establishing he did not get the vaccination card at the location indicated but still used the card. Slam Dunk conviction. 

[livingonthebeach]

9 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

And who exactly is going to figure out the card is forged?  Let's say, for the sake of argument...

 

A) Person A has a faked immunization card (which is not really hard to do).

B) Person A uses that fake card to:

• Go on a cruise
• Attend a ballgame
• Go to college

No one is even going to do more than take a quick look at the card.  But, let's say Person A comes down with Covid, or someone Person A was around comes down with Covid.

 

Do you REALLY think someone will think "hey, this card might be faked, let's start tracking down the information (that may or may not be available)!"  Or will they think "Person A fell in the 5% of people who the vaccine doesn't work for."?

 

Again, just because you get the vaccine does NOT mean you won't get Covid.  It reduces the possibility (but not to 0) and reduces severity.  Doesn't mean you can't get it and test positive. 

 

Unless the person with the fake card comes down with a severe case of Covid or dies - in that case it would be in the best interest of public health to trace where that vaccine was given.  In the case of death, the perpetrator would obviously not be prosecuted. 

[jules815]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

NCL just set itself up as the "cruise lines that hates families" with that proposal.

 

 

Vaccinations required thru the end of October. Maybe this is a way to get cruise lines up and running in July, and then that requirement will be lifted November 1? That's how I interpreted it.

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

 

They can't report that a specific individual got the vaccine. That'd be a HIPAA violation (unless the CDC some day says it's a public health need to report individuals, which is possible within the terms of HIPAA).  They can just report your demographics to the state.

They can and do report specific individuals. The states do have a database and it has name and date of birth. You may not know how to access it. Some states are not opaque about it do it may be hard to access in some states. They have the names, the vaccine type, lot and dates. In Maryland they make it easy and I can even print out a Certificate of Covid 19 vaccination with all the info. The printed certificate is very nice and is watermarked with the state seal. Below is a screenshot of our state vaccination records site. 
 

 

[jean87510]

3 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

What do you have to explain?  Just because you got the vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch covid.  So someone can be actually vaccinated and STILL get the vaccine.  So someone boards with a fake vaccination card, gets covid, and TPTB say "but you got the vaccination, this card must be fake", and you say "nope, I must have fallen into the 5% the vaccine doesn't work on."

 

Where's the issue? 

A covid vaccine record  has been loaded into state websites.  I dont work for the cruise line but I would think if it is an issue with an falsified vaccine record, the medical personnel on the ship may be able to verify using a titer draw or checking state records if from US.  

[smokeybandit]

I guess some states do roll up that data.

 

That should be of concern to anyone in those states.

 

 

[Charles4515]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

I guess some states do roll up that data.

 

That should be of concern to anyone in those states.

 

 

Why should it be a concern? I think it is great. Covid is a public health issue that affects all. They have records of my other vaccinations too. Shingles, Flu, Pneumonia etc. Your state is probably doing it too or your county. 

[S.A.M.J.R.]

12 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

A covid vaccine record  has been loaded into state websites.  I dont work for the cruise line but I would think if it is an issue with an falsified vaccine record, the medical personnel on the ship may be able to verify using a titer draw or checking state records if from US.  

Do you really think every business would be allowed to check state records? 

1 hour ago, Stallion said:

Proving it would be among the easiest criminal cases. All you would need is testimony from a government expert that the card with the forgery  is not an official vaccination card plus proof that the person presenting the card did not obtain the vaccination card at the location indicated. Wrongful intent can be shown by establishing he did not get the vaccination card at the location indicated but still used the card. Slam Dunk conviction. 

You are both missing the point.  Before you have an investigation, much less a trial, you need a SUSPICION that a crime has been committed.  What is going to give someone that suspicion?  That they came down with covid?  When we KNOW the vaccine doesn't keep everyone from getting the disease?  Please tell me what would trigger the investigation.

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Unless the person with the fake card comes down with a severe case of Covid or dies - in that case it would be in the best interest of public health to trace where that vaccine was given.  In the case of death, the perpetrator would obviously not be prosecuted. 

Maybe.  But it would be another unusual circumstance for that to happen. 

[Charles4515]

2 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Do you really think every business would be allowed to check state records? 

You are both missing the point.  Before you have an investigation, much less a trial, you need a SUSPICION that a crime has been committed.  What is going to give someone that suspicion?  That they came down with covid?  When we KNOW the vaccine doesn't keep everyone from getting the disease?  Please tell me what would trigger the investigation.

Maybe.  But it would be another unusual circumstance for that to happen. 

 

I don't think any business will be able to check state records unless you give permission. That could be part of the cruise contract. Or if you don't give permission you won't be able to board. 

 

I don't think most people are criminals or sociopaths. I think requiring vaccination will be sufficient. It is a sick person or a person without a concience that would fake being vacinated. The amount of people who would attempt such is small. 

[boscobeans]

2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I had to give a digital signature when I got my appointment, but that was just the usual liability stuff.

 

Also no questions about insurance. 

OKAY.. So who paid for the vaccine...

 

[jean87510]

14 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Do you really think every business would be allowed to check state records? 

You are both missing the point.  Before you have an investigation, much less a trial, you need a SUSPICION that a crime has been committed.  What is going to give someone that suspicion?  That they came down with covid?  When we KNOW the vaccine doesn't keep everyone from getting the disease?  Please tell me what would trigger the investigation.

Maybe.  But it would be another unusual circumstance for that to happen. 

You are all over the place.  I am only referring to the falsification of a covid vaccine card for a cruise ship.  I have no idea why you are tying businesses into this discussion.  If you want to fake a vaccine card to go on a cruise, then go ahead.  I really could care less quite frankly as I am vaccinated and have no health issues and enjoy a healthy fit lifestyle.  If it means that much to you to prove your point, then by all means go on a cruise with your fake card.  

[lenquixote66]

2 hours ago, boscobeans said:

When you were getting your vaccination did they enter information concerning your insurance ?

 

Some of my neighbors are going to Canarsie HS to get the vaccine.I wish that would have been me for nostalgia sake.😀

[ONECRUISER]

1 minute ago, jean87510 said:

You are all over the place.  I am only referring to the falsification of a covid vaccine card for a cruise ship.  I have no idea why you are tying businesses into this discussion.  If you want to fake a vaccine card to go on a cruise, then go ahead.  I really could care less quite frankly as I am vaccinated and have no health issues and enjoy a healthy fit lifestyle.  If it means that much to you to prove your point, then by all means go on a cruise with your fake card.  

Poster is referring to thread conversation that Business like Royal would not have access to State/County Health records to confirm if Vaccine card is Fake or not.

[boscobeans]

22 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

When we KNOW the vaccine doesn't keep everyone from getting the disease?  Please tell me what would trigger the investigation.

How about when the person is tested POSITIVE and asked about prior history??  The patient would LIE about getting a vaccination when that lie could or would have an effect on their illness or treatment and may cause their death???  WOW,, that would be the height of intelligence...

 

 

[jean87510]

3 minutes ago, ONECRUISER said:

Poster is referring to thread conversation that Business like Royal would not have access to State/County Health records to confirm if Vaccine card is Fake or not.

ok.  I must have missed that.  I may be opening up a can of worms but I would actually draw a titer on them to see if they were lying.  But of course that's me.  I know they can't.  Quick edit:  I would have the ship medical people draw a titer.  And this is why I could never own a cruise company.  

Edited April 5, 2021 by jean87510

[boscobeans]

3 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

Some of my neighbors are going to Canarsie HS to get the vaccine.I wish that would have been me for nostalgia sake.😀

Canarsie from 46---71 Best place on earth.

[boscobeans]

3 minutes ago, ONECRUISER said:

Poster is referring to thread conversation that Business like Royal would not have access to State/County Health records to confirm if Vaccine card is Fake or not.

Same as asking for medical records if you are applying for a life insurance policy.. JUST SIGN A RELEASE....

[jean87510]

After seeing some of these replies, I have a pretty good idea of who possibly is an expert in smuggling booze on a ship.

[A&L_Ont]

1 minute ago, jean87510 said:

After seeing some of these replies, I have a pretty good idea of who possibly is an expert in smuggling booze on a ship.

And possibly make fake vaccination cards if actually needed. 

[lenquixote66]

3 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

Canarsie from 46---71 Best place on earth.

I grew up in Crown Heights and moved to Canarsie in 1967.I lived there till 2003 .I am reading a book now Canarsie:Brooklyn’s Last Village by Brian Merlis.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

36 minutes ago, boscobeans said:

How about when the person is tested POSITIVE and asked about prior history??  The patient would LIE about getting a vaccination when that lie could or would have an effect on their illness or treatment and may cause their death???  WOW,, that would be the height of intelligence...

 

 

So IF they have a fake vaccination card, you think when questioned, they're going to say "nope, never had the vaccine"?  

 

OK.  Good luck with that.