Who else thinks that anyone caught faking their vaccine credentials should be banned from Cruising for life?

[jagoffee]

11 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Seriously?

 

Look, the extent of the database would only need to be the following:

 

Name:____________

DOB:  __/__/____

Vaccinated?  Yes or no.

Vaccine type:  _________________

Date of final dose:  __/__/____

 

That's it.  How the frik hard it that to maintain?  NOTHING of value is being given out. You show your ID to prove you are who you say you are when you show up to board and they match the name and DOB.  Good to go then.  Just one additional layer of safety.

But the current Administration has clearly stated that they do not support nor have any plans for a Federal Data base.  Leaving verification up to individual companies and states seems like the Government is not addressing the issue at all.

As far as I know there are no Federal agencies even requiring a vaccine.  Since vaccines are only EUA, it is likely not even legal for the Government to require a vaccine until until after the companies receive FDA approval.  Then what is the Government going to do? 
 

 

[Denny01]

42 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

 

Those who refuse might have a medical reason to not get a vaccination.  The consequences should be that they might get covid-19, not an external punishment.  The consequences should not be no travel. 

No, they can travel. they just have to follow the requirements of where they are traveling to and returning to. And they don’t have the option of traveling on cruise ships which have proven to be very susceptible to contagious diseases. Even a low number of those who get ill adversely impact the entire vacation of thousands when ports/itineraries are cancelled. 

 

You know, responsibility and stuff kind of like that. Dont get vaccinated? Go RVing or get tested before flying to various locations that requires it. But cruising for the foreseeable is not an option…..thankfully. 

 

Edit: By the way, the ‘consequences’ aren’t just catching COVID, it is passing COVID on to others, and being an incubator of new variants. 

 

Den

Edited May 26, 2021 by Denny01

[dallasdan]

The vaccinated can still pass on Covid to others.  Should they not be allowed to travel?  I think the percentage of cruisers that will falsify documents is extremely low, especially on Celebrity where the clientele is much older.  

 

 

[cantstopingcruising]

13 hours ago, Geobugs said:

Don't ask, don't tell.  DeSantis says No.

Then maybe the cruiselines will have to depart from a safer (saner!) state

[cltnccruisers]

1 hour ago, dallasdan said:

The vaccinated can still pass on Covid to others.  Should they not be allowed to travel?  I think the percentage of cruisers that will falsify documents is extremely low, especially on Celebrity where the clientele is much older.  

 

 

I absolutely agree that the percentage of falsifications will be extremely small.  Our docs are valid, I was there after all, but they are so basic looking that if I were the examining party I would be suspicious of them.  Hopefully it will all be a moot point.

[cltnccruisers]

17 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Then maybe the cruiselines will have to depart from a safer (saner!) state

Anything cruising from or to Canada yet?  Not being snippy, just curious.

[cruisestitch]

Not until 2022

[Catherine Janaway]

9 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

Not until 2022

I was hoping to book a trip from the UK on the Rocky Mountaineer and then a cruise from Vancouver around Alaska.

 

The travel agent told us it is unlikely that travel to Canada would be possible until next year.

[ShmuelCharlie]

I have a question for the OP (Original Poster): how did this issue arise in the first place? Frankly, though, many cruise lines have rules that are seldom enforced. For example, how many patrons of RCCL's and Celebrity's Solarium have seen young people under the posted age limit of 16 enter the venue and the pool stewards do nada to enforce that rule? Another example, how many times have you seen chair hogs actually get their stuff removed by the pool staff and taken to Lost and Found when the occupant has been away from his or her chair after 30 minutes? Answer: seldom. How about little kids coming to the casino w/their parents and nobody at the entrance  telling the party that kids under 21 are not allowed in the casino? Answer: not all the time. Lastly, when kids are making a racket in the hallways during curfew, where are the security staff to enforce the curfew? Answer: nowhere to be seen unless a pax calls the Guest Relations office to complain and security is sent to the hallway to enforce the curfew. 

 

Bottom line: if cruise lines aren't enforcing the posted rules, how can they enforce the contractual conditions when faked vaccinations creds are shown to security or the check-in counters? Answer: Not very well. If fake IDs are still made and sold to underage college students, then fake CDC vaccination cards can be made too. As for the cruise pax being banned "for life" from a vacay aboard a particular line's ships, how would that ban be enforced? By whom? Under what authority?  

[Fouremco]

8 minutes ago, ShmuelCharlie said:

I have a question for the OP (Original Poster): how did this issue arise in the first place? Frankly, though, many cruise lines have rules that are seldom enforced. For example, how many patrons of RCCL's and Celebrity's Solarium have seen young people under the posted age limit of 16 enter the venue and the pool stewards do nada to enforce that rule? Another example, how many times have you seen chair hogs actually get their stuff removed by the pool staff and taken to Lost and Found when the occupant has been away from his or her chair after 30 minutes? Answer: seldom. How about little kids coming to the casino w/their parents and nobody at the entrance  telling the party that kids under 21 are not allowed in the casino? Answer: not all the time. Lastly, when kids are making a racket in the hallways during curfew, where are the security staff to enforce the curfew? Answer: nowhere to be seen unless a pax calls the Guest Relations office to complain and security is sent to the hallway to enforce the curfew. 

 

Bottom line: if cruise lines aren't enforcing the posted rules, how can they enforce the contractual conditions when faked vaccinations creds are shown to security or the check-in counters? Answer: Not very well. If fake IDs are still made and sold to underage college students, then fake CDC vaccination cards can be made too. As for the cruise pax being banned "for life" from a vacay aboard a particular line's ships, how would that ban be enforced? By whom? Under what authority?  

I think that any logical person can distinguish between the need to deal with chair hogs or youngsters in the Solarium and the need to deal with unvaccinated passengers attempting to board a cruise using fraudulent documents. Would ship's security be able to detect every fraudulent document? Probably not, but that doesn't diminish the importance of attempting to do so. And for what's worth, all of the examples you've cited of rules not enforced I've seen enforced during my Celebrity cruises. Not every single occurrence, particularly with the ubiquitous chair hogs, but with sufficient regularity to know that enforcement does take place, even with these minor infractions.

 

[mom says]

21 minutes ago, ShmuelCharlie said:

As for the cruise pax being banned "for life" from a vacay aboard a particular line's ships, how would that ban be enforced? By whom? Under what authority?  

Ever read the terms and conditions of your cruise contract? The cruise line has the legal right to disembark or deny boarding to any pax who violate the contract, whether they've read them or not. Enforcement? Your name goes on a list. If your name appears on a booking - so sorry, no room for you.

[cltnccruisers]

26 minutes ago, ShmuelCharlie said:

I have a question for the OP (Original Poster): how did this issue arise in the first place? Frankly, though, many cruise lines have rules that are seldom enforced. For example, how many patrons of RCCL's and Celebrity's Solarium have seen young people under the posted age limit of 16 enter the venue and the pool stewards do nada to enforce that rule? Another example, how many times have you seen chair hogs actually get their stuff removed by the pool staff and taken to Lost and Found when the occupant has been away from his or her chair after 30 minutes? Answer: seldom. How about little kids coming to the casino w/their parents and nobody at the entrance  telling the party that kids under 21 are not allowed in the casino? Answer: not all the time. Lastly, when kids are making a racket in the hallways during curfew, where are the security staff to enforce the curfew? Answer: nowhere to be seen unless a pax calls the Guest Relations office to complain and security is sent to the hallway to enforce the curfew. 

 

Bottom line: if cruise lines aren't enforcing the posted rules, how can they enforce the contractual conditions when faked vaccinations creds are shown to security or the check-in counters? Answer: Not very well. If fake IDs are still made and sold to underage college students, then fake CDC vaccination cards can be made too. As for the cruise pax being banned "for life" from a vacay aboard a particular line's ships, how would that ban be enforced? By whom? Under what authority?  

None of the annoyances you mention may prove fatal.

[cantstopingcruising]

1 hour ago, cltnccruisers said:

Anything cruising from or to Canada yet?  Not being snippy, just curious.

Not taking it as snippy, but I heard on the radio today that the Canadian Government is going to provide us with some kind o Vaccine Passport. No details yet, but it sounds like a good plan.

[cltnccruisers]

1 minute ago, cantstopingcruising said:

Not taking it as snippy, but I heard on the radio today that the Canadian Government is going to provide us with some kind o Vaccine Passport. No details yet, but it sounds like a good plan.

Been trying to talk DW into a fall cruise to NE and up through the St Lawrence but not having much luck.  

[PS0DSH]

Well....that won't be an issue as Florida has made it illegal for a business to refuse services to anybody that hasn't been vaccinated.  Unless of course Celebrity (and all the other cruise lines) move their operations out of Florida.

[cltnccruisers]

8 minutes ago, PS0DSH said:

Well....that won't be an issue as Florida has made it illegal for a business to refuse services to anybody that hasn't been vaccinated.  Unless of course Celebrity (and all the other cruise lines) move their operations out of Florida.

The only line that has made objection to the law is NCL and they have since relented.

[cantstopingcruising]

If our winter cruises are out of Florida and the cruise lines are not allowed to insist on proof of vaccines, where does that leave all of us who will cruise only if everyone on the ship has been fully vaccinated?

Doesn't sound too promising.

I think many will cancel if not protected

[cltnccruisers]

20 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

If our winter cruises are out of Florida and the cruise lines are not allowed to insist on proof of vaccines, where does that leave all of us who will cruise only if everyone on the ship has been fully vaccinated?

Doesn't sound too promising.

I think many will cancel if not protected

I suppose the law could be rescinded or amended.  But we'll still head down for our 8/27 ABC and see how things work.

[TeaBag]

2 hours ago, cltnccruisers said:

Anything cruising from or to Canada yet?  Not being snippy, just curious.

It's not supposed to happen till Feb 2022.  Wonder who thought that would be a good date?  I have never seen a cruise ship in Canada in February!

[ch175]

34 minutes ago, cantstopingcruising said:

If our winter cruises are out of Florida and the cruise lines are not allowed to insist on proof of vaccines, where does that leave all of us who will cruise only if everyone on the ship has been fully vaccinated?

Doesn't sound too promising.

I think many will cancel if not protected

Can you even quantify the risk if there are 5 unvaccinated people on board? 15? 100? What are you basing this decision on?

I don’t understand the irrational fear so many people have.

 

[K.T.B.]

7 hours ago, ch175 said:

The government would be spending billions(?) of dollars to build a database. Are you actually naive enough to believe covid vaccination info would be the only thing ever stored in it?

 

 

Stopped filing your taxes, did you?

 

And stop with the name calling.

[K.T.B.]

3 hours ago, dallasdan said:

The vaccinated can still pass on Covid to others.  Should they not be allowed to travel?  I think the percentage of cruisers that will falsify documents is extremely low, especially on Celebrity where the clientele is much older.  

 

 

 

While not wholly incorrect, it's been proven that it's highly unlikely a vaccinated person can spread Covid.  

[Denny01]

5 hours ago, dallasdan said:

The vaccinated can still pass on Covid to others.  Should they not be allowed to travel?  I think the percentage of cruisers that will falsify documents is extremely low, especially on Celebrity where the clientele is much older.  

 

 

The issue is a ship will only have vaccinated passengers and crew, and a few who sneak on by lying, which means the Extremely Low probability of a vaccinated person passing it will be to another vaccinated person who has an Extremely Low probability of being infected……..run those ‘Extremely Low Probabilities’ together and you have the very technical term of ‘Oh Wow, Really Really Extremely, Beyond Any Real Probability of a vaccinated person infecting a vaccinated person’. Try another tact of why Cruise Lines should allow unvaccinated persons on board. That one didn’t work too well. 

 

I do agree the chance of false documents will be low which is another reason to require vaccination documentation for a cruise. 

 

Den

Edited May 26, 2021 by Denny01

[Denny01]

2 hours ago, PS0DSH said:

Well....that won't be an issue as Florida has made it illegal for a business to refuse services to anybody that hasn't been vaccinated.  Unless of course Celebrity (and all the other cruise lines) move their operations out of Florida.

And most all know how that will work out. We will be cruising from Florida ports on ships of Cruise Lines that require vaccination documentation. 

 

trust me, I know these things!!!

 

Den

Edited May 26, 2021 by Denny01

[cantstopingcruising]

1 hour ago, ch175 said:

Can you even quantify the risk if there are 5 unvaccinated people on board? 15? 100? What are you basing this decision on?

I don’t understand the irrational fear so many people have.

 

Let me explain it to you.

Fully vaccinated, we can get Covid. We will most likely not have to be hospitalized and most likely not die from it. We could get a flu of some sort or even be asymptomatic or anything in between.

This can spread like wildfire. Everyone will react differently. But it will become an infected ship and you know the consequences.